Player Discussion Jack Campbell

[Soundwave]

You're constantly railing against the team for not being more cut throat and emotionless towards players instead of coddling feelings, and now you're complaining that they did exactly that just because you don't like who they sent down? Heard you say it a million times, this is a results based business. Campbell has zero results this year and is getting worse in an even lesser league while Stu has been dialing it in since the move was made.

Blaming one player who isn't even playing any worse than the other goalie isn't cut throat.

It's chicken shit management.

If there was even a 15% chance of rebuilding this guy's confidence, we had to take it.

Just saying "lets just destroy any kind of trade value he might've had and handcuff ourselves with more dead cap next summer while also probably now forcing Skinner to play into the ground" isn't smart management.

If you wanted to start Skinner 8 games in a row ... fine. No one is stopping you from doing that. You didn't need to destroy what was left of Campbell's confidence for no good reason and zero gain to the franchise.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Campbell has been bad for his entire tenure and waiving him in the vaguest hope that someone claims him makes sense. With Skinner there stands a real chance you lose him for nothing.

 

[Soundwave]

Campbell has been bad for his entire tenure and waiving him in the vaguest hope that someone claims him makes sense. With Skinner there stands a real chance you lose him for nothing.

No one was claiming Campbell, lets be real. Everyone and their grandma in Oilers management knew that.

The reason they did it is because they were still not willing to fire Woodcroft at that point and were hoping that by making Campbell the fall guy it would spark the team some how.

It didn't spark shit and they ended up having to fire Woodcroft anyway after bottoming out in San Jose. And on top of that they took what was left of Campbell's confidence and destroyed it completely.

 

[Arpeggio]

No one was claiming Campbell, lets be real. Everyone and their grandma in Oilers management knew that.

The reason they did it is because they were still not willing to fire Woodcroft at that point and were hoping that by making Campbell the fall guy it would spark the team some how.

It didn't spark shit and they ended up having to fire Woodcroft anyway after bottoming out in San Jose. And on top of that they took what was left of Campbell's confidence and destroyed it completely.

I just don't buy your take on this. It seems completely reasonable to me to send him down to have some success and play more games, and then call him back up. He was terrible for an entire season last year, and has shown no signs of pulling out of it this season, aside from a couple of good preseason games. If he plays well in the AHL, he'll be back up before you know it, because Skinner will struggle at some point.

The way he's playing though, they'll probably call Rodrigue up before bringing Campbell back. There's no way the organization thought that he'd play as poorly as he has to start down there.

 

[Soundwave]

I just don't buy your take on this. It seems completely reasonable to me to send him down to have some success and play more games, and then call him back up. He was terrible for an entire season last year, and has shown no signs of pulling out of it this season, aside from a couple of good preseason games. If he plays well in the AHL, he'll be back up before you know it, because Skinner will struggle at some point.

The way he's playing though, they'll probably call Rodrigue up before bringing Campbell back. There's no way the organization thought that he'd play as poorly as he has to start down there.

The reason I don't agree with this is the Oilers knew full well this guy has mental issues.

Why exacerberate that? If you work with someone or have a family member who has depression for example, do you think it's smart to go out of your way to embarrass that person for no great reason?

They didn't even do it for any of that shit mentioned above. They did it because they themselves were too scared to fire Woodcroft that early but were in panic mode doing the whole stupid "well we have to do something!!!" and so they decided "hey maybe some how booting Campbell will some how inspire the team".

If Skinner was like .910 and Campbell was floundering then yes, blame that guy, but when both goalies were crap and Campbell actually had the higher save percentage, then singling him out and blaming him for everything was stupid.

If you wanted to "punish" Campbell, fine, staple him to the bench and let Skinner start 8 games in a row. There was no need to take it so far as to basically make it look like he is at fault for everything and he is the only one being punished at all while you have the Evan Bouchards of the world making 8000 turnovers a game and not even missing a shift.

 

[Drivesaitl]

The reason I don't agree with this is the Oilers knew full well this guy has mental issues.

Why exacerberate that? If you work with someone or have a family member who has depression for example, do you think it's smart to go out of your way to embarrass that person for no great reason?

They didn't even do it for any of that shit mentioned above. They did it because they themselves were too scared to fire Woodcroft that early but were in panic mode doing the whole stupid "well we have to do something!!!" and so they decided "hey maybe some how booting Campbell will some how inspire the team".

If Skinner was like .910 and Campbell was floundering then yes, blame that guy, but when both goalies were crap and Campbell actually had the higher save percentage, then singling him out and blaming him for everything was stupid.

If you wanted to "punish" Campbell, fine, staple him to the bench and let Skinner start 8 games in a row. There was no need to take it so far as to basically make it look like he is at fault for everything and he is the only one being punished at all while you have the Evan Bouchards of the world making 8000 turnovers a game and not even missing a shift.

ftr absolutely agreeing with your takes on this. Feel identical on the bolded.

Different personalities exist. Orgs have to know who those are. I'll use example. The Oilers and Sather made messages re. Messier multiple times in his career sending him down to minors to leave a hard message. With Mess it worked. Because of intractable personality type. They even benched Gretz, for similar reasons and knowing he would respond impeccably. But the team did not take that practice with Kurri who initially had fragile confidence (Kurri has thanked the org so many times for sticking with him) and the org used white gloves often with Glenn Anderson, a mercurial sort who wouldn't have taken hard love as well, and didn't.

You and I both recognized that sending Campbell down was likely going to be destructive rather than productive. I didn't like the chances Campbell was just going to rebound down there and I viewed it as a Woody last kick at him.

In perhaps the greatest irony Skinner has been playing his best hockey of the season post Woody fire. Ultimately sticking only with his guy didn't save Woody. Its kind of just.

 

[GOilers88]

Blaming one player who isn't even playing any worse than the other goalie isn't cut throat.

It's chicken shit management.

If there was even a 15% chance of rebuilding this guy's confidence, we had to take it.

Just saying "lets just destroy any kind of trade value he might've had and handcuff ourselves with more dead cap next summer while also probably now forcing Skinner to play into the ground" isn't smart management.

If you wanted to start Skinner 8 games in a row ... fine. No one is stopping you from doing that. You didn't need to destroy what was left of Campbell's confidence for no good reason and zero gain to the franchise.

How is it chicken shit management to send down a guy making 5x5 even though he's not living up to his end of the bargain at all, for the second straight season?

LA did the exact same thing with Peterson.

I remember seeing you mock the "gotta get smitty going" stuff too, and this is the exact same situation and now you're mad that they aren't.

You're all over the map dude.

Jack Campbell doesn't have any trade value and you know it. You've been saying the team needs to bite the bullet and dump assets to get rid of him at all costs.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

No one was claiming Campbell, lets be real. Everyone and their grandma in Oilers management knew that.

The reason they did it is because they were still not willing to fire Woodcroft at that point and were hoping that by making Campbell the fall guy it would spark the team some how.

It didn't spark shit and they ended up having to fire Woodcroft anyway after bottoming out in San Jose. And on top of that they took what was left of Campbell's confidence and destroyed it completely.

Yeah, you’re probably right but hey you never know.

It’s funny how people crow about accountability with the org then cry foul when someone is held accountable for their bad play. Campbell was brought in to be the starter and has failed. Simple as that.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

The reason I don't agree with this is the Oilers knew full well this guy has mental issues.

It's WAY better to work on his mental health issues out of the spotlight of the relentless Canadian media.

 

[Soundwave]

How is it chicken shit management to send down a guy making 5x5 even though he's not living up to his end of the bargain at all, for the second straight season?

LA did the exact same thing with Peterson.

I remember seeing you mock the "gotta get smitty going" stuff too, and this is the exact same situation and now you're mad that they aren't.

You're all over the map dude.

LA had viable plan Bs though ... they got Korpisalo last year and made a smart signing with Talbot this year.

The Oilers at present don't have any of these kinds of options.

They needed to rebuild some of Campbell's value so you can include him in a trade as a cap dump at least.

As is they've just made things harder for who ever the f*** is even the real GM at this point (Coffey? Jackson?).

How are you getting a goalie now? With what ... your stupid 300k in cap space? Likely the real thing that is going to happen is Skinner is going to log a shit ton of minutes in net and exhaust himself at some point.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

LA had viable plan Bs though ... they got Korpisalo last year and made a smart signing with Talbot this year.

The Oilers at present don't have any of these kinds of options.

They needed to rebuild some of Campbell's value so you can include him in a trade as a cap dump at least.

As is they've just made things harder for who ever the f*** is even the real GM at this point (Coffey? Jackson?).

Not many teams have a contingency plan for when their starting goalie is putting up an .850 sv%

 

[Soundwave]

Not many teams have a contingency plan for when their starting goalie is putting up an .850 sv%

Maybe try playing some f***ing defense? Maybe? Skinner had a lower save percentage than Campbell like a week ago.

 

[GOilers88]

LA had viable plan Bs though ... they got Korpisalo last year and made a smart signing with Talbot this year.

The Oilers at present don't have any of these kinds of options.

They needed to rebuild some of Campbell's value so you can include him in a trade as a cap dump at least.

As is they've just made things harder for who ever the f*** is even the real GM at this point (Coffey? Jackson?).

How are you getting a goalie now? With what ... your stupid 300k in cap space? Likely the real thing that is going to happen is Skinner is going to log a shit ton of minutes in net and exhaust himself at some point.

Uh, no. nothing has changed. I'm sure they're still looking at ways to move on from him despite the fact he can't even play at the AHL level now. Him sewering starts for the big club doesn't help anything.

Management made a hard decision. They also did what you constantly complain that they don't do, and thats admitting they made a mistake with a signing by sending him down.

Again, all over the map.

 

[Soundwave]

Uh, no. nothing has changed. I'm sure they're still looking at ways to move on from him despite the fact he can't even play at the AHL level now. Him sewering starts for the big club doesn't help anything.

Management made a hard decision. They also did what you constantly complain that they don't do, and thats admitting they made a mistake with a signing by sending him down.

Again, all over the map.

Yes so in your first paragraph there you're so close to actually getting it, lol.

THE MANAGEMENT of this team did something stupid and made their hand weaker for no good reason.

Why put a guy you know full well has mental issues in a position to make the team's trade/bargaining position worse? Now their trade position is worse for no gain whatsoever.

Why would you do that?

There was no real reason to send him down, if you don't want to play him because you want to "punish him" for a weak wrap around goal (as one of the 20844848 goals against the Oilers allowed to start the season), fine. Start Skinner the next 20 games in a row if you want, no one was stopping that from happening.

If you want to play the "accountability" card then half the roster deserved to be sent down to the AHL, Stuart Skinner included, by only doing it to one person, you just went out of your way to embarrass that one person and make it look like everything was their fault when it clearly wasn't.

 

[Drivesaitl]

How is it chicken shit management to send down a guy making 5x5 even though he's not living up to his end of the bargain at all, for the second straight season?

LA did the exact same thing with Peterson.

I remember seeing you mock the "gotta get smitty going" stuff too, and this is the exact same situation and now you're mad that they aren't.

You're all over the map dude.

Jack Campbell doesn't have any trade value and you know it. You've been saying the team needs to bite the bullet and dump assets to get rid of him at all costs.

You don't send down a vet goalie 5 games played into the season and conclude he's not anythng for the 2nd season in a row.

That is poor asset management and its something I truly believe would not have occurred without bias being present.

The sending down was far too early, presumptive, and seemed to assume the player was incapable of finding game here. Even though the player had been playing well, generally, for sometime.

The only way to get rid of Campbell is to utilize him properly where he's established, at the NHL level. The AHL level is the org showing him he's no longer wanted here. That is the way Campbell himself would likely take it.

not every personality type does well with being sent to the minors. Its not one size fits all approach.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

On the GYB pod today Strudwick was saying he thinks Campbell needs to walk away from the game for a while and take a leave of absence. Not sure if the Oilers could finagle that onto LTIR but given Hossa had a rash and was able to LTIRetire I dont see the problem.

Wait, Bettman would penalize us and give our 3rd Round picks to Calgary in perpetuity if we tried that. Maybe Campbell can get a rash?

 

[joestevens29]

We made our hand weaker? It was never going to be good with the way Campbell had been playing. Our only hope was he'd get some wins and confidence in the AHL and see if that gets him going.

 

[Arpeggio]

Yes so in your first paragraph there you're so close to actually getting it, lol.

THE MANAGEMENT of this team did something stupid and made their hand weaker for no good reason.

Why put a guy you know full well has mental issues in a position to make the team's trade/bargaining position worse? Now their trade position is worse for no gain whatsoever.

Why would you do that?

There was no real reason to send him down, if you don't want to play him because you want to "punish him" for a weak wrap around goal (as one of the 20844848 goals against the Oilers allowed to start the season), fine. Start Skinner the next 20 games in a row if you want, no one was stopping that from happening.

If you want to play the "accountability" card then half the roster deserved to be sent down to the AHL, Stuart Skinner included, by only doing it to one person, you just went out of your way to embarrass that one person and make it look like everything was their fault when it clearly wasn't.

Except that sitting Campbell for 20 games is not going to get him going.

I'm just not buying your narrative here. Woodcroft was getting fired regardless, I don't think sending Campbell down was an effort to avoid that. The difference between a goalie and a skater is that you can't get two goalies going at the same time. It's also weird to be criticizing this move now considering Skinner has responded well in recent games.

Also, sending Campbell down didn't hurt his trade value. He was the worst goalie in the league last season, no one is trading for him after a couple of good games.

 

[Soundwave]

You got to know who you're dealing with too.

Like did the Oilers not consider that Jack Campbell being mentally fragile had a very high degree of probability of taking an AHL demotion the wrong way? Which is predictably exactly what happened.

If you have family member or friend who you know doesn't deal with stress well and is not in a great place mentally at the moment, is it smart to put them into a stressful situation to save yourself like $5 when you really don't have to?

If Campbell was the only one playing poorly that's a different story, but when both goalies are shit because the entire D corps is playing Eakins-era defense, then one person shouldn't be singled out and made to look like it's their fault. Especially not when you know full well they are mentally on extremely thin ice.

We played a bet that had like a 5% chance of paying off and a 95% chance of blowing up in our face. Why even do that in the first place.

 

[joestevens29]

On the GYB pod today Strudwick was saying he thinks Campbell needs to walk away from the game for a while and take a leave of absence. Not sure if the Oilers could finagle that onto LTIR but given Hossa had a rash and was able to LTIRetire I dont see the problem.

Wait, Bettman would penalize us and give our 3rd Round picks to Calgary in perpetuity if we tried that. Maybe Campbell can get a rash?

Drouin was allowed to go on LTIR for personal reasons so I don't see why not.

Can't remember if Knight went on it as well when he stepped away.

You got to know who you're dealing with too.

Like did the Oilers not consider that Jack Campbell being mentally fragile had a very high degree of probability of taking an AHL demotion the wrong way?

If you have family member or friend who you know doesn't deal with stress well and is not in a great place mentally at the moment, is it smart to put them into a stressful situation to save yourself like $5?

If Campbell was the only one playing poorly that's a different story, but when both goalies are shit because the entire D corps is shit, then one person shouldn't be singled out and made to look like it's their fault.

I send them to get help....

How many companies are going to allow employees to work when they are mentally not there? None. They send them to get help until they are better.

 

[GOilers88]

Yes so in your first paragraph there you're so close to actually getting it, lol.

THE MANAGEMENT of this team did something stupid and made their hand weaker for no good reason.

Why put a guy you know full well has mental issues in a position to make the team's trade/bargaining position worse? Now their trade position is worse for no gain whatsoever.

Why would you do that?

There was no real reason to send him down, if you don't want to play him because you want to "punish him" for a weak wrap around goal (as one of the 20844848 goals against the Oilers allowed to start the season), fine. Start Skinner the next 20 games in a row if you want, no one was stopping that from happening.

If you want to play the "accountability" card then half the roster deserved to be sent down to the AHL, Stuart Skinner included, by only doing it to one person, you just went out of your way to embarrass that one person and make it look like everything was their fault when it clearly wasn't.

Except you can't send down half a roster, so what exactly is your point?

You're all mad because they sent down a guy who has played like shit for the second season in a row now, who can't even hold his head above water at the AHL level. He got sent down because he was trash. You constantly say things like management never makes the hard decisions, they never admit when they make a mistake signing players then holding onto them too long trying to get them going, they're always too concerned about being nice and sparing peoples feelings despite the NHL being a results based business, and not being more cut throat when it comes to player demotions and accountability, and that the NHL isn't a place for players to find their game, its not a development league.

Now the team has changed course and done every single one of those things that you constantly complain about, and you're complaining that they did it because somehow allowing Jack Campbell to continue sewering starts for the main club is the best way to raise his value (despite the fact that you've been saying he has none and will require multiple good assets to move, insinuating he has negative value already), and because the team needs to make sure he feels good despite his bad play because we don't want to hurt his feelings and blow his confidence (despite the fact he's already done this to himself over multiple teams and seasons now too.

You're literally just complaining for the sake of complaining, and contradicting the shit out of your own past comments at the same time.

 

[K1984]

On the GYB pod today Strudwick was saying he thinks Campbell needs to walk away from the game for a while and take a leave of absence. Not sure if the Oilers could finagle that onto LTIR but given Hossa had a rash and was able to LTIRetire I dont see the problem.

Wait, Bettman would penalize us and give our 3rd Round picks to Calgary in perpetuity if we tried that. Maybe Campbell can get a rash?

I'm pretty sure that any leave of absence like that gets us off the hook with his cap.

 

[Arpeggio]

You got to know who you're dealing with too.

Like did the Oilers not consider that Jack Campbell being mentally fragile had a very high degree of probability of taking an AHL demotion the wrong way?

If you have family member or friend who you know doesn't deal with stress well and is not in a great place mentally at the moment, is it smart to put them into a stressful situation to save yourself like $5?

If Campbell was the only one playing poorly that's a different story, but when both goalies are shit because the entire D corps is shit, then one person shouldn't be singled out and made to look like it's their fault.

It's just as logical to say that having a guy with confidence issues play in a fishbowl during one of the team's worst stretches of hockey in recent history could destroy his confidence. They literally sent him away from the pressure to find his game where no one is watching.

If Campbell lets in a bad goal in an Oiler game right now, and costs them a game, it will be a huge story. He just had three horrific starts and yeah the fans talk about it, but it's not really a big deal.

 

[Drivesaitl]

It's WAY better to work on his mental health issues out of the spotlight of the relentless Canadian media.

How about this. Instead of an org being top down on its assets how about allow the player to have his input. Do you think the Oilers did that.

How hard would it be for the org to actually ask the player himself what he wanted.

The org instead asked Woody and Schwartz what they wanted and I'm pretty convinced at that.

Woody used the Erne and Campbell waivers as bumps to impact the team, to get their attention, and pretty much said it in pressers.

For Erne who cares. Just a PTO, we can flush that one. With Campbell we have to make the 5M work in some way. You don't flush that one,

 

[GOilers88]

You don't send down a vet goalie 5 games played into the season and conclude he's not anythng for the 2nd season in a row.

That is poor asset management and its something I truly believe would not have occurred without bias being present.

The sending down was far too early, presumptive, and seemed to assume the player was incapable of finding game here. Even though the player had been playing well, generally, for sometime.

The only way to get rid of Campbell is to utilize him properly where he's established, at the NHL level. The AHL level is the org showing him he's no longer wanted here. That is the way Campbell himself would likely take it.

not every personality type does well with being sent to the minors. Its not one size fits all approach.

tough shit if thats how he takes it? the team has distanced itself from a guy who has shown to be incapable for any sustained periods of good play despite the fact they made the mistake of giving him the contract in the first place.

they aren't concerned about sparing his feelings, because his feelings don't matter here. what matters is that he isn't living up to his end of the bargain and he's having to deal with the consequences of that, which is making him even worse. that's on jack campbell and I don't feel bad at all. Everybody knows what Campbell is. he isn't going to just become some goalie that suddenly has value and we can move. there's no untapped talent there. he is what he is, and he's always been that. the guy can't even play at the AHL level this year and people are actually upset that the team doesn't have him starting games.