Post-Game Talk: Jack Campbell is a Toronto Maple Leaf. Leafs win.

[JayfromNB1219]

This year Hutch didn't have a very long leash one bad start, 1/2 a period 2 goals and its ok you are out of here, see ya around. LOL

Out of where lol? I think you misread what I said lol

 

[Jmo89]

Isn’t it anti-Dubas to say Freddie has been terrible for years? In that case the GM should be the first person to know and then deal with the situation.

I’m not anti dubas so my perspective is that he was declining and mediocre last regular season, very good for the play in, and now really bad this season (possibly exasperated by a groin injury and confidence issues).

Was he that good in the play in? He let in a horrible goal to lose game 1 (when his team was dominating,) and was very clearly the 3rd best goalie in the series.

He also had a very average game 5.

 

[Gallagbi]

All this "poor fred" stuff is so tiring, especially when Fred has been and is still treated better than so many of our other players.

Stop crying about hurt feelings.

Fred has been very bad this year, and the weakest part of the team - by a large margin. He was below average last year too....and that poor play actually extended a good way into the previous season as well.

And yet through all of this, we have played Fred as an unquestioned heavy workload #1 starter game in and game out, no matter how poorly he has played. We have media refusing to do their jobs and point out that he's playing badly, instead blaming a defense that has played very very well all year long.

The idea that Fred is somehow hard done by is silly and tiresome.

I do think a lot of the excessive workload is due to Fred's play. He's never been good off rest, so he has to play through funks, which isn't ideal.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Leafs could give Campbell the next 3-4 starts followed by a Hutch start. They could play up the injured narrative and now that campbells back he can fully "rest".

View attachment 411038

Put Andersen back in on Apr 4 or 5th vs the Flames. That would give Andersen two full weeks of rest and no excuses.

Sounds like a good plan to me, get Dubas and Keefe on the phone lol

 

[kb]

I pointed to something this stupid fan base say Andersen never does in the playoffs. Steal games. Video evidence. Statistical evidence. NOW SIT DOWN.

Vasilevski's career playoff SAV% is .918. He won a cup with a .927 SAV% last year. Freddy puts up .922 and .936 in back to back years and hes the issue in this town. RIGHT

clowns in this town have to trade someone every year. Freddy is just the flavor of the month. Hey I wonder how Kappinen is doing in PITT, or Kadri in COL.....

ALSO, talking about your low lite reel.....every player has one. that is why career numbers matter. At the end of the day you are who your stats say you are.

LAST season Adrei Vasilevski had a 20 game stretch where he posted a .901 SAV%.

84 games > 20 games

He's terrible now, and has been for 2 seasons. Just admit it and move on. No hard feelings for you being wrong repeatedly - we all make mistakes.

He's been the second or 3rd best statistical goalie in every playoff series. That's on him. If your team wins the goaltending battle, they usually win the series.

 

[zeke]

I do think a lot of the excessive workload is due to Fred's play. He's never been good off rest, so he has to play through funks, which isn't ideal.

How do we know this? He was a very good backup and platoon starter in Anaheim.

 

[zeke]

Isn’t it anti-Dubas to say Freddie has been terrible for years? In that case the GM should be the first person to know and then deal with the situation.

I’m not anti dubas so my perspective is that he was declining and mediocre last regular season, very good for the play in, and now really bad this season (possibly exasperated by a groin injury and confidence issues).

I think it's absolutely fair to criticize dubas for his goaltendkng decisions so far.

In fact it's probably the only thing he actually deserves criticism for so far.

 

[Guided by Veseys]

Was he that good in the play in? He let in a horrible goal to lose game 1 (when his team was dominating,) and was very clearly the 3rd best goalie in the series.

He also had a very average game 5.

He was good in general I thought, with the odd poor goal, but did his typical letdown in the final game.

 

[egd27]

if he was a league minimum goalie he’d have a lot more leash from the fan base

You don't actually believe that do you ?

 

[Confucius]

You don't actually believe that do you ?

Thanks for pointing it out to him, AGAIN. I guess he forgot what he posted...

Out of where lol? I think you misread what I said lol

See above. lol

 

[Gallagbi]

How do we know this? He was a very good backup and platoon starter in Anaheim.

We've watched it over his Leafs career with predictable struggles in October and early spring.

In fairness he's never had to earn time over that period since we didn't have anyone pushing him like Gibson and now Campbell have/could, but even when other goalies played to give him some extra rest here it seemed to hurt his play

 

[Leafsfan74]

The media wing of Andersen apologists are kicking it into high gear this morning.
"Campbell has no track record as a starter!" unlike Jordan Binnington a few years back.

A lengthy, but quick (for me) analysis:

Steve Penney, Ken Dryden, Felix Potvin, Patrick Roy, Binnington etc. Many rookie goalies who have had less years in the league and traveling around NHL arenas who have been walls come the playoffs. It's really easy, if a guy is winning and earning the support of his team and succeeding, that's your guy. Period.

This is a short season, a hungry team like this NEEDS to have confidence in their goalie. Whoever is winning, needs to be the starter. Right now Campbell has sky high confidence and results in a short sample size.

This is a fragile team come playoffs. I see their body language and play on the ice, they really stay focused when Campbell is in net. That is mandatory in an even shorter post-season.

I've defended and supported Freddie plenty, because there were times he was the only reason they would get two points on a given night. He earned that praise. He's never been lights out when the big chips were in the middle.

It doesn't mean Andersen won't have a say, but he must get healthy, support Campbell and be a team guy. He will get a nice contract somewhere. If he has such confidence in his ability he will get paid even more down the road.

I firmly believe in meritocracies, so, what are you saying to the fans, goalies and the team if you simply reward a guy for his history and not current success in the net in a critical year? This is professional sports.

They are human, they have their personal struggles. I get it. However, they aren't single mothers working two jobs for min. wage. So, sympathy is in short supply during a pandemic and a franchise who hasn't even been to the finals in 54 years. If Campbell can't handle the load, go back to Andersen and vice versa.

Work hard and be your best when called upon. There are many jobs on the line if the Leafs fail, let's call it as we see it and not hope for a nostalgic bolt of lightning. They are a team, not any one player.

 

[ottomaddox]

I did a comparison of Jon Quick and Freddy in the trade rumors thread. Whatever people's thoughts of Quick are over the past two seasons, should be the same for Freddy. They are almost absolutely identical.

When you look at GSAA and GSAx, Quick is better in some cases.

I will always give Quick the edge when it comes to experience and elimination games wins.

 

[meefer]

All this "poor fred" stuff is so tiring, especially when Fred has been and is still treated better than so many of our other players.

Stop crying about hurt feelings.

Fred has been very bad this year, and the weakest part of the team - by a large margin. He was below average last year too....and that poor play actually extended a good way into the previous season as well.

And yet through all of this, we have played Fred as an unquestioned heavy workload #1 starter game in and game out, no matter how poorly he has played. We have media refusing to do their jobs and point out that he's playing badly, instead blaming a defense that has played very very well all year long.

The idea that Fred is somehow hard done by is silly and tiresome.

So you've decided to ignore the part where I said criticism is fine, that his performance has not been good enough and made the leap that I'm being an apologist for him because I'm concerned about his feelings? I accept all that you've just said about his performance, and have no problem with people presenting their views about it. But, if you think that the level of discussion is raised by slandering him as a person, the same type of crap that has been tossed towards other players here, that's just sad. We can talk about a player being bad, we don't need to take out our frustrations by demeaning them as people. That is the source of my irritation. I don't think Fred has been treated badly by the organization. I think this board has been hard done by through ignorant comments that distract from relevant, intelligent discussions.

 

[JayfromNB1219]

You don't actually believe that do you ?

I can only speak for myself lol hutch has a ton of rope from me...shouldn’t speak for the fan base...over stated I was wrong

 

[JayfromNB1219]

Thanks for pointing it out to him, AGAIN. I guess he forgot what he posted...

See above. lol

As I said shouldn’t have spoken for the fan base my mistake I know for me Hutch has a ton of rope as you get what you pay for

 

[Gary Nylund]

All this "poor fred" stuff is so tiring, especially when Fred has been and is still treated better than so many of our other players.

Stop crying about hurt feelings.

Fred has been very bad this year, and the weakest part of the team - by a large margin. He was below average last year too....and that poor play actually extended a good way into the previous season as well.

And yet through all of this, we have played Fred as an unquestioned heavy workload #1 starter game in and game out, no matter how poorly he has played. We have media refusing to do their jobs and point out that he's playing badly, instead blaming a defense that has played very very well all year long.

The idea that Fred is somehow hard done by is silly and tiresome.

What's tiresome is you repeating that Fred has been bad this year - everyone agrees, how do you not get that?

It's hard to have a discussion when your responses indicate that you don't even understand what the posts say that you're responding to and you keep shooting the same old blanks at strawmen.

Read the post below. Read it three times very slowly if that's what it takes, it's tiresome when you constantly respond with the same old strawman arguments as if you don't understand what you're responding to.

So you've decided to ignore the part where I said criticism is fine, that his performance has not been good enough and made the leap that I'm being an apologist for him because I'm concerned about his feelings? I accept all that you've just said about his performance, and have no problem with people presenting their views about it. But, if you think that the level of discussion is raised by slandering him as a person, the same type of crap that has been tossed towards other players here, that's just sad. We can talk about a player being bad, we don't need to take out our frustrations by demeaning them as people. That is the source of my irritation. I don't think Fred has been treated badly by the organization. I think this board has been hard done by through ignorant comments that distract from relevant, intelligent discussions.

Very well said!

I would only add that while much of the criticism of Fred is justified, much of it has also been over the top. At least I feel quite strongly that he is not the only player who has been less than stellar during our recent slump and it's just ridiculous to blame him for every single goal we allow which seems to be the stance of many people here.

 

[zeke]

I would only add that while much of the criticism of Fred is justified, much of it has also been over the top. At least I feel quite strongly that he is not the only player who has been less than stellar during our recent slump and it's just ridiculous to blame him for every single goal we allow which seems to be the stance of many people here.

Tiresome to hear you keep repeating this.

Fred has been very bad. The defense has been very good. The criticism is fair and under the top.

 

[Leaftors]

What's tiresome is you repeating that Fred has been bad this year - everyone agrees, how do you not get that?

It's hard to have a discussion when your responses indicate that you don't even understand what the posts say that you're responding to and you keep shooting the same old blanks at strawmen.

Read the post below. Read it three times very slowly if that's what it takes, it's tiresome when you constantly respond with the same old strawman arguments as if you don't understand what you're responding to.



Very well said!

I would only add that while much of the criticism of Fred is justified, much of it has also been over the top. At least I feel quite strongly that he is not the only player who has been less than stellar during our recent slump and it's just ridiculous to blame him for every single goal we allow which seems to be the stance of many people here.

Hockey is literally a game of mistakes, there are going to be giveaways. Good teams limit the amount of giveaways that they have, to which we do quite well. Those giveaways get magnified when they end up in the back of the net. As of recently, Anderson hasn't had the ability to make the save and thus the criticism.

The expectation of Anderson isn't to be perfect, it's to make 3 or 4 quality saves. He can't do it anymore, and jack is showing that he can.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Tiresome to hear you keep repeating this.

Fred has been very bad. The defense has been very good. The criticism is fair and under the top.

So you believe that blaming Fred for every goal we give up is fair, got it.

 

[Teeder Keon]

Tiresome to hear you keep repeating this.

Fred has been very bad. The defense has been very good. The criticism is fair and under the top.

I think if you were to remove the two words “ very “ than I would have to totally agree with you zeke !


Fred has been bad. The defense has been good. The criticism is fair and under the top.
I’m in agreement ...
Go Leafs Go

 

[zeke]

So you believe that blaming Fred for every goal we give up is fair, got it.

Nobody has actually ever blamed Freddy for every goal, or held the rest of the team blameless for every goal.

What we do see though is that the Leafs have been very good at preventing scoring opportunities this year and Fred has been very bad at stopping shots.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Hockey is literally a game of mistakes, there are going to be giveaways. Good teams limit the amount of giveaways that they have, to which we do quite well. Those giveaways get magnified when they end up in the back of the net. As of recently, Anderson hasn't had the ability to make the save and thus the criticism.

The expectation of Anderson isn't to be perfect, it's to make 3 or 4 quality saves. He can't do it anymore, and jack is showing that he can.

I think we all agree that we can't count on Andersen at this point and Jack deserves a shot at being the man. Let's hope he can be our saviour.

 

[Teeder Keon]

Tiresome to hear you keep repeating this.

Fred has been very bad. The defense has been very good. The criticism is fair and under the top.

Offence very good
Skill very good
Upgrades very good
PP good
PK very bad
Defence good
Fred bad
Jack good
Toughness and grit very bad
Coaching good
Management very good
Ownership very good
Top 6 very good
Bottom 6 good


Fans , very good .....
We are the Bat shit crazy North Leaf fans and we are not going to go away .....

 

[Gary Nylund]

Nobody has actually ever blamed Freddy for every goal, or held the rest of the team blameless for every goal.

What we do see though is that the Leafs have been very good at preventing scoring opportunities this year and Fred has been very bad at stopping shots.

Sure they have. That's exactly what I stated in my post and you agreed. If you don't agree with that criticism that's cool but it's pretty confusing when you say you do.

People have also said that Fred is single handedly responsible for our losing streak. One player deserves 100% of the blame for all those losses. How do you feel about that? More fair criticism? Or are some people being irrational and unfair?