Tribute Jack Campbell Discussion

[shaner8989]

Enter into the Vezina discussion. Its early but still his numbers are nuts

 

[Bluelines]

Truth is actually the Leafs' system is boosting Jack's surface numbers.

Though Jack is still good even without the boost.

Leafs don't have a system, run around like chickens with their heads cut off in the defensive zone, make too many pretty passes in the offensive zone, do half assed weak uninterested forechecks and weak Ole Ole stick checking, rely on your goalie to stand on his head every night and turn over the puck in the neutral zone is not a system. Their system comes down to have 4 elite forwards score is their system. Boucher you knew he was goign to clog the neutral zone and force you to the right side 0f the rink, that is a system. Torts was going to block every freaking shot his team could and have a two man in aggressive forecheck.

No one will ever convince me that Keefes game plan translates well in the NHL. A few wobbly pops around the campfire Keefes coaching came up (OK I brought it up) , I'm fortunate to have some ex pros in my friend circle and to a man they are all very critical of Keefe's game management. they love the way he treats his players but don't think his coaching translates into a SC winning team.

 

[zeke]

Leafs don't have a system, run around like chickens with their heads cut off in the defensive zone, make too many pretty passes in the offensive zone, do half assed weak uninterested forechecks and weak Ole Ole stick checking, rely on your goalie to stand on his head every night and turn over the puck in the neutral zone is not a system. Their system comes down to have 4 elite forwards score is their system. Boucher you knew he was goign to clog the neutral zone and force you to the right side 0f the rink, that is a system. Torts was going to block every freaking shot his team could and have a two man in aggressive forecheck.

No one will ever convince me that Keefes game plan translates well in the NHL.

You don't actually watch the games, eh?

 

[howlman]

Enter into the Vezina discussion. Its early but still his numbers are nuts

How are we going to be able to afford him long term? Jack is getting paid, and paid big as a UFA next summer. Dubas can't F this one up. Campbell is a stud

Hopefully we can get him around 5 mil - 6 mil a year

 

[Bluelines]

You don't actually watch the games, eh?

Nope never.. I don't even know how those players move so fast wearing golf cleats ... Ice Hockey is the 2nd best game on a pitch...

 

[Bluelines]

How are we going to be able to afford him long term? Jack is getting paid, and paid big as a UFA next summer. Dubas can't F this one up. Campbell is a stud

Hopefully we can get him around 5 mil - 6 mil a year

The prognosticators are thinking some where in the 5 year / 5 to 6 million per year range. tough pill to swallow paying your starter and your back up around 10 mil of your cap space.

Dubas F-ed himself by signing an injury prone goalie to a 3 years , 3 mil+ contract. if we lose Campbell because Mirzek is on the payroll, I'm going to lose my $H!T.

 

[francis246]

You don't actually watch the games, eh?

i actually have to agree with him, they do not play a systemic style of hockey. I’m sure keefe does have a system but he also gives a lot of free reign to the players. When you look at other teams like Boston, Tampa, Winnipeg, Calgary for example it is very clear what type of forecheck they are running and how they are defending in the neutral zone. You don’t really see that with the leafs. I believe the only thing we do see is the keeping possession and not dumping it in if you can control the puck. Circle back and regroup.

that being said, I think this type of coaching works for our group. But one can only imagine how much better they would look with some real structure

 

[ShaneFalco]

Leafs don't have a system, run around like chickens with their heads cut off in the defensive zone, make too many pretty passes in the offensive zone, do half assed weak uninterested forechecks and weak Ole Ole stick checking, rely on your goalie to stand on his head every night and turn over the puck in the neutral zone is not a system. Their system comes down to have 4 elite forwards score is their system. Boucher you knew he was goign to clog the neutral zone and force you to the right side 0f the rink, that is a system. Torts was going to block every freaking shot his team could and have a two man in aggressive forecheck.

No one will ever convince me that Keefes game plan translates well in the NHL. A few wobbly pops around the campfire Keefes coaching came up (OK I brought it up) , I'm fortunate to have some ex pros in my friend circle and to a man they are all very critical of Keefe's game management. they love the way he treats his players but don't think his coaching translates into a SC winning team.

If only charts could lace them up

 

[zeke]

i actually have to agree with him, they do not play a systemic style of hockey. I’m sure keefe does have a system but he also gives a lot of free reign to the players. When you look at other teams like Boston, Tampa, Winnipeg, Calgary for example it is very clear what type of forecheck they are running and how they are defending in the neutral zone. You don’t really see that with the leafs. I believe the only thing we do see is the keeping possession and not dumping it in if you can control the puck. Circle back and regroup.

This is a bizarre statement tbh. I don't know what you're watching.

 

[francis246]

How are we going to be able to afford him long term? Jack is getting paid, and paid big as a UFA next summer. Dubas can't F this one up. Campbell is a stud

Hopefully we can get him around 5 mil - 6 mil a year

meh I don’t think he is! & not cause I don’t want him to. But I think he will take a bit less to stay here and take more term over money I’m thinking a 4.6 deal over a long term and they find a way to move Mrazek to a team that needs a goalie

 

[SprDaVE]

Leafs don't have a system, run around like chickens with their heads cut off in the defensive zone, make too many pretty passes in the offensive zone, do half assed weak uninterested forechecks and weak Ole Ole stick checking, rely on your goalie to stand on his head every night and turn over the puck in the neutral zone is not a system. Their system comes down to have 4 elite forwards score is their system. Boucher you knew he was goign to clog the neutral zone and force you to the right side 0f the rink, that is a system. Torts was going to block every freaking shot his team could and have a two man in aggressive forecheck.

No one will ever convince me that Keefes game plan translates well in the NHL. A few wobbly pops around the campfire Keefes coaching came up (OK I brought it up) , I'm fortunate to have some ex pros in my friend circle and to a man they are all very critical of Keefe's game management. they love the way he treats his players but don't think his coaching translates into a SC winning team.

That's not true at all and just parrots random stuff that explains nothing. They quite clearly have a game plan and a system for their forecheck, their breakout and defensive zone coverage. I'll point to Keefe's NHL record to let you know if it's working out or just luck.

I think you just want to desperately believe that Keefe is an awful coach that you've convinced yourself of everything you just wrote, even the "my friends are ex-pro's" which means very little because I also know ex-pro's that say the opposite. It explains a whole lot more about this post than everything you reached for.

With all that said, Jack Campbell has been great. Looking forward to his extension and what it'll look like.

 

[zeke]

i actually have to agree with him, they do not play a systemic style of hockey. I’m sure keefe does have a system but he also gives a lot of free reign to the players. When you look at other teams like Boston, Tampa, Winnipeg, Calgary for example it is very clear what type of forecheck they are running and how they are defending in the neutral zone. You don’t really see that with the leafs. I believe the only thing we do see is the keeping possession and not dumping it in if you can control the puck. Circle back and regroup.

that being said, I think this type of coaching works for our group. But one can only imagine how much better they would look with some real structure

Don't take it from me of course, take it from one of the more anti-leafs posters on hfboards, this Oilers fan here (not that I agree with his analysis 100% but just to give a non-Zeke opinion) from their out of town thread:

They aren't world beaters, but I notice so much things watching Toronto compared to us in the O zone and neutral zone. Toronto is a team that almost always out posses and outshoots their opponents.

They don't give the opposing team much time in the D zone. They are very aggressive attacking the dmen on other teams from getting point shots. They don't play the "keep them to the outside" system They cut off cycles. They also have 3 guys right on the opposing winger coming into the neutral zone making him dump it in most of the time and quickly get it back on the dump in.

In the O Zone they always have a winger ready along the boards to cut off a ring around to keep ozone possession going. We just look so relaxed compared to them.

And there's plenty of other things we could add.

But if there's anyone that watches the Leafs and suggests they're disorganized.....yeah, well, they either don't know what they're looking at or are being dishonest.

 

[francis246]

This is a bizarre statement tbh. I don't know what you're watching.

what system do you honestly see them running? I’m not saying they look bad. I’m saying they do not clearly demonstrate any structure out there. They don’t run a 1-2-2 or a 1-3-1 in the neutral zone like most teams do against us. They don’t really have the best forechecking system.

 

[ToneDog]

The prognosticators are thinking some where in the 5 year / 5 to 6 million per year range. tough pill to swallow paying your starter and your back up around 10 mil of your cap space.

Dubas F-ed himself by signing an injury prone goalie to a 3 years , 3 mil+ contract. if we lose Campbell because Mirzek is on the payroll, I'm going to lose my $H!T.

Relax. I have been told by a few posters that he will be easy to move. If not we can give him a one way ticket to Robidas Island.

 

[Bluelines]

This is a bizarre statement tbh. I don't know what you're watching.

I picture you head cocked to the right with a confused look on your face ...

This reply reminds me of my dogs response when I tell him to stop licking his butt. I give a perfectly logical command but his brain can't process a simple concept.

The Leafs are simply not a structured team, it might be Keefes poor coaching or it might be the nature of the players who like to play a pond hockey game, in either case its the coaches responsibility to make his players play a more structured game.

 

[francis246]

Don't take it from me of course, take it from one of the more anti-leafs posters on hfboards, this Oilers fan here (not that I agree with his analysis 100% but just to give a non-Zeke opinion) from their out of town thread:




And there's plenty of other things we could add.

But if there's anyone that watches the Leafs and suggests they're disorganized.....yeah, well, they either don't know what they're looking at or are being dishonest.

right so like I said, they don’t run your standard systems, they have a bit more free reign in the offensive zone to make smart plays, they keep possession and it works for us. But they don’t run an aggressive forecheck. I’d just like to see some tighter trapping in the neutral zone and a more aggressive forecheck. That Kase line is really the only line that forechecks hard and they win a lot of puck battles. But whatever they are doing works in front of Campbell. I’m just happy we aren’t giving up 50 shots a night like we used to lol

 

[zeke]

I picture you head cocked to the right with a confused look on your face ...

This reply reminds me of my dogs response when I tell him to stop licking his butt. I give a perfectly logical command but his brain can't process a simple concept.

The Leafs are simply not a structured team, it might be Keefes poor coaching or it might be the nature of the players who like to play a pond hockey game, in either case its the coaches responsibility to make his players play a more structured game.

See, but you're so obviously wrong about how they play that it only makes you look bad.

 

[SprDaVE]

right so like I said, they don’t run your standard systems, they have a bit more free reign in the offensive zone to make smart plays, they keep possession and it works for us. But they don’t run an aggressive forecheck. I’d just like to see some tighter trapping in the neutral zone and a more aggressive forecheck. That Kase line is really the only line that forechecks hard and they win a lot of puck battles. But whatever they are doing works in front of Campbell. I’m just happy we aren’t giving up 50 shots a night like we used to lol

Trapping in the neutral means you're not forechecking. You're letting the play come to you and trying to transition the offense purely on mistakes in the neutral zone. There's a reason why it's not used anymore or barely used and only awful teams cling on a dinosaur level system like that. If you're forechecking hard, you're not ready to trap in the neutral zone.

I'm not going to argue the Leafs are a great forechecking team because they aren't. They are fantastic at puck possession and typically they don't have to forecheck because they have elite forwards that enter the zone with the puck. The Kase line is mostly about dumping the puck, which is more than fine.

EDIT: Also, let's get this thread back on track. This is about Campbell. My apologies.

 

[ACC1224]

How are we going to be able to afford him long term? Jack is getting paid, and paid big as a UFA next summer. Dubas can't F this one up. Campbell is a stud

Hopefully we can get him around 5 mil - 6 mil a year

Sounds like a challenge.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

None of this matters until after XMAS .. pro hockey is more like pond hockey pre XMAS .. then post XMAS time and space on ice is reduced and all teams start playing harder on da puck and man.. like I said earlier this style of puck possession game works well in this type of hockey and I expected Leafs to do well early in season .. but things will change .. da big question is gonna be how far up can Leafs get in division in points now .. then will it be enough to hold on to a playoff spot after XMAS .. it is gonna be close

 

[francis246]

Trapping in the neutral means you're not forechecking. You're letting the play come to you and trying to transition the offense purely on mistakes in the neutral zone. There's a reason why it's not used anymore or barely used and only awful teams cling on a dinosaur level system like that. If you're forechecking hard, you're not ready to trap in the neutral zone. Your statements are conflicting and sounds to me like you want perfection when it's impossible.

I'm not going to argue the Leafs are a great forechecking team because they aren't. They are fantastic at puck possession and typically they don't have to forecheck because they have elite forwards that enter the zone with the puck without dumping it, unlike the Kase line.

fair enough, but we do know now, that in the playoffs these guys have to get better at forechecking. There just isn’t enough space out there to carry it in. So if they can make that minor adjustment maybe we get more scoring chances?

it can’t hurt to try. Only guy I don’t want to change is Nylander. He has the puck on a string and is probably among the best in the NHL at entering the O zone.

but that being said I don’t think it’s unfair for someone to look at the leafs and say they do lack a bit of structure. I think there is a little bit of truth to the statement if we are comparing them to other teams. But what we do works for us and having Campbell back stopping for us has been God sent

 

[Judas Tavares]

To be fair, if anyone's starting goaltender goes down, they are in trouble too. Or if their top centres go down. And top D.

Our fanbase does this woe is me shtick. Act like if other teams' top players go down, they will magically be fine. But we will be so effed we may as well pack up and go home.

Y'all must have front yards full of mud with how green every other team's grass always is. Well maybe not the Coyotes.

 

[zeke]

but that being said I don’t think it’s unfair for someone to look at the leafs and say they do lack a bit of structure.

It's extremely wrong tho.

Unless they were talking about the Babcock leafs.

 

[ACC1224]

To be fair, if anyone's starting goaltender goes down, they are in trouble too. Or if their top centres go down. And top D.

Our fanbase does this woe is me shtick. Act like if other teams' top players go down, they will magically be fine. But we will be so effed we may as well pack up and go home.

Y'all must have front yards full of mud with how green every other team's grass always is. Well maybe not the Coyotes.

It's probably more that they don't care what happens to other teams, they only care about what happens to this team.

 

[Bluelines]

That's not true at all and just parrots random stuff that explains nothing. Leafs do have a system both offensively and defensively and they are certainly working out no more or less than any other NHL team contending for a playoff spot.

I think you just want to desperately believe that Keefe is an awful coach that you've convinced yourself of everything you just wrote, even the "my friends are ex-pro's" which means very little because I also know ex-pro's that say the opposite. It explains a whole lot more about this post than everything you reached for.

You have friends who played in the NHL that think Keefe is good at game management? After Keefe said he is not a line matcher? That is game management, right? Do you think a coach who does not line match is good at a game management? He is essentially allowing the other coach to deploy his game plan when and how he pleases by not line matching, is that good game management?

I think he is not a good coach because of two specific and two series defining strategies. The Columbus series he put 3 of his top 4 forwards on one line in a panic move, and it was a panic move, thinking that would generate goals, and he stuck with it even after clearly it was not working. What Keefe did in that one short sighted move was make Torts job easier to shut down 3 of our top 4 players. In the Montreal series he allowed Danault's line to play vs Matthews and Marner every night because he does not line match and we know how Matthews and Marner performed in that series.

When I said no system, I thought I didn't have to explain the obvious. Every team has a system, even Montreal has a system, but is it a good NHL system that allows this team to win a playoff round? Proof is in the results. You can have you own personal opinion but it does not trump the realty of past results.