J.T. Miller this season

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I understand that AHL scoring doesn't mean success at the NHL level, but at the same age Miller's AHL production was quite better than Dubi's, as was his NHL production. I understand production isn't the only measure, but perhaps Miller is more advance in one area (offense) and less advanced in other areas (hockey IQ, defense) than Dubi and all the kid needs to do is continue to play in the AHL and show he's improving in those areas. Further, on the production side, he improved year over year, which is nice. I too ain't an expert. Heck, I haven't seen him in an AHL game, and it's really tough to judge some kids at 20 years old at the AHL level. Some are just elite talents. Some mature faster. Some play it safe. It looks, on paper, that he's progressing nicely. I think this is an important year for him to better show what type of player he can be.

Certainly can't argue against any of this. All I can say is that I agree Miller needs more AHL time, and the thought of him centering our third-line this year, especially as a pivot to MSL or MZA scares me.

Cap crunch for sure.

And as always, a disclaimer on any post I happen to post about JT, I hope to heaven that I'm wrong.
 
Jeremy Morin (who a lot of folks want here so badly) is at least two years older than Miller and has been up and down between the NHL and AHL the last three--four years finally became a point per game player at the AHL level this year. The younger Miller has been playing for a far worse team offensively than Morin's Rockford AHL team. Just saying. Morin's older and I don't think he's any more responsible defensively than Miller is. Yet people salivate over Morin and if we got him in a deal they'd be penciling him into the top 9 and yet again Miller's going back to the AHL. Sometimes you got to trust your own guys.
 
Jeremy Morin (who a lot of folks want here so badly) is at least two years older than Miller and has been up and down between the NHL and AHL the last three--four years finally became a point per game player at the AHL level this year. The younger Miller has been playing for a far worse team offensively than Morin's Rockford AHL team. Just saying. Morin's older and I don't think he's any more responsible defensively than Miller is. Yet people salivate over Morin and if we got him in a deal they'd be penciling him into the top 9 and yet again Miller's going back to the AHL. Sometimes you got to trust your own guys.

The HF hype machine doesn't usually spit out the most logical players.

Somehow people have soured on Miller but salivate over prospects that would have an even lower probability of making our current squad.
 
AV's comments regarding Miller last season go beyond growing pains on the ice. There seems to be a maturity issue here.

As for your point as a whole, I disagree. AV's job is to win games, and win them now. Miller abandoning his defensive responsibilities, growing pains or not, will not stand for very long.

Omg! So a kid who is not old enough to buy beer is immature? That never happens!
 
Would like 40 points from him. That's honestly the best I think he could do. But.. he'll be playing with either Zucc, MSL, or Nash at his RW so he will definitely have his chances to put up points.
 
Miller went from a little over 0.5 ppg to a little over 1.0 ppg from year 1 to year 2 in the AHL. His defense improved just as much as his offense, though it's more difficult to quantify. There's no reason to suspect he'll stop improving at the ripe old age of 21. Despite whatever off-ice immaturity there is, he's clear improved a lot last season and likely will improve just as much next year.

Miller is a very good prospect, you people are just not used to seeing prospect development. For all the talk of seeing prospects, most people are actually lying about it as evidenced by their analysis of how prospects develop (also by the fact that they know nothing about the prospect other than his stats and year-old scouting reports). Miller's development curse is not just normal, it is significantly ahead of schedule. His errors are minor issues compared to the problems most prospects his age have. The Rangers may not have wanted to teach him during in-game situations while in the playoffs, but pre-season and maybe a few early season games will be enough to iron out whatever wrinkles his game has.

Miller will be a a third line center in the upcoming season and a second line center in his prime.
 
Miller IMO is at least somewhat comparable to Dubinsky. Dubinsky wasn't as good a player at the AHL level that Miller is now. Are there going to be some growing pains?--without a ****ing doubt. There were growing pains with Dubinsky too. If he replaces Richards--and makes some defensive errors well Richards made a ton of them too. Easier to overlook them for veteran NHL has beens I suppose. We'll get a lot better energy and grit out of Miller and a hell of a lot better cap hit.
 
Miller IMO is at least somewhat comparable to Dubinsky. Dubinsky wasn't as good a player at the AHL level that Miller is now. Are there going to be some growing pains?--without a ****ing doubt. There were growing pains with Dubinsky too. If he replaces Richards--and makes some defensive errors well Richards made a ton of them too. Easier to overlook them for veteran NHL has beens I suppose. We'll get a lot better energy and grit out of Miller and a hell of a lot better cap hit.

I think the major difference is Dubinsky is a better playmaker and checker, and Miller has better hands.
 
I think the major difference is Dubinsky is a better playmaker and checker, and Miller has better hands.

Large physical gritty forwards. Both move well with above average speed. Jagr taught Dubinsky how to cycle and to hold on to the puck and wait to make a play. People used to ***** about Nylander all the time holding on to the puck waiting for the right play. He was a very smart and patient player. He'd loop away from the opposition--hold on to the puck--look to make a play. He'd loop away two, three, four times just to lose a checker and wait for an opening. People would complain. Lots of people are really impatient. Jagr when he played with Dubinsky was a very good deal. That's really when he became a for real NHL player. Miller is similar in size, grit and board play. He needs to get a bit smarter but Kreider still has a ways to go with that as well. Dubinsky really was a 4th liner until they put him with Jagr. Miller needs to play with better players as well. A vet like St. Louis might help him out a whole hell of a lot.
 
Its also very common to make **** up as you've done here -- particularly by making the stupid and absurdly long leap that criticizing a prospect = he's a bust.

Let me get this straight: you're denying people haven't called McIlrath a bust?

Im still trying to figure out why you're even responding to what I said. Im guessing the cursing means you're getting defensive for some reason.

Aaaaaaaaaaanyway.
 
Miller is a power forward. Power forwards take longer to develop consistency.

Guerin, Leclair, Deadmarsh, Simmonds, Franzen....Franzen was a 26 year old rookie and had 16 points in 80 games.

These kids have to play. Part of developing players is gambling. You give a kid a chance even if he doesn't deserve it over someone else.

Just like the corporate world.......you promote managers based on potential and assume risk rather than a new band aid every two years.
 
Miller is a power forward. Power forwards take longer to develop consistency.

Guerin, Leclair, Deadmarsh, Simmonds, Franzen....Franzen was a 26 year old rookie and had 16 points in 80 games.

These kids have to play. Part of developing players is gambling. You give a kid a chance even if he doesn't deserve it over someone else.

Just like the corporate world.......you promote managers based on potential and assume risk rather than a new band aid every two years.


You know nothing about hockey. Don't you know that if a child who is too young to buy beer doesn't immediately play to his full peak potential it means he'll never reach it? What you see is what you get with a 20 year old...

Performance in your first few games in the NHL is ultimately how you'll play the rest of your career. It's comparable to saying that how you good you are in oral arguments in the first semester of law school is how good you'll be as a lawyer and no improvement can be expected.
 
You know nothing about hockey. Don't you know that if a child who is too young to buy beer doesn't immediately play to his full peak potential it means he'll never reach it? What you see is what you get with a 20 year old...

Performance in your first few games in the NHL is ultimately how you'll play the rest of your career. It's comparable to saying that how you good you are in oral arguments in the first semester of law school is how good you'll be as a lawyer and no improvement can be expected.

Some people need to make up their minds. You want to win now, or develop kids the right way?

Ok, so he and a couple others looked overmatched as rookies. Stop the friggin presses.

Stepan gets a hat trick in his NHL debut, and now thats the standard for all future prospects.
 
Some people need to make up their minds. You want to win now, or develop kids the right way?

Ok, so he and a couple others looked overmatched as rookies. Stop the friggin presses.

Stepan gets a hat trick in his NHL debut, and now thats the standard for all future prospects.


Step almost got a fourth goal in the third period of that game, but missed, so he also underperformed. Four goals or bust!
 
We should draft more Stepans. He's awesome and it's hilarious when people complain about him. Imagine the opuses we'd see from certain posters if we had two Derek Stepans.
 
Some people need to make up their minds. You want to win now, or develop kids the right way?

Ok, so he and a couple others looked overmatched as rookies. Stop the friggin presses.

Stepan gets a hat trick in his NHL debut, and now thats the standard for all future prospects.

I was at that game . It was awesome

Also miller is 21. Dudes gonna be a solid nhler. This is his chance to stick
 
We should draft more Stepans. He's awesome and it's hilarious when people complain about him. Imagine the opuses we'd see from certain posters if we had two Derek Stepans.

The Stepan pick thread is hilarious
 
We should draft more Stepans. He's awesome and it's hilarious when people complain about him. Imagine the opuses we'd see from certain posters if we had two Derek Stepans.

Stepan continues to improve season to season. He's still a young guy. He's going to be better. He reminds me of a little larger Marc Savard. Savard had skating issues too but was a very competitive guy. Savard was too cocky when he was younger. Stepan has a better personality. Savard had more edge. Stepan a whole lot better defensively. Generally though they are players that depend on chemistry with others. They see the whole ice and they know where their teammates are and they've got the skills to get them the puck. Stepan is an excellent young player. He's had two deep runs in the playoffs. In last year's playoffs he kind of shed the 'not a good playoff performer' label IMO. He was top 2-3 in scoring for the team despite pretty much missing two games and getting his jaw busted. He plays all situations. I don't know what there's not to like.
 
Let me get this straight: you're denying people haven't called McIlrath a bust?

Im still trying to figure out why you're even responding to what I said. Im guessing the cursing means you're getting defensive for some reason.

Aaaaaaaaaaanyway.

I responded to you because you're railing against the stupidest/most extreme 2% of Ranger fans and trying to position yourself as some sort of voice of reason. The sarcasm you and Beacon are using doesn't work too well when you're using it against the dumbest of the dumb.

Worse yet, it loses site of the legitimate argument, which has nothing to do with how Miller and McIlrath will look 5 years from now, but if they can help the Rangers win to start this season.
 
if a prospect is traded it will be Miller.. He isn't a AV favorite and i am hearing they are down on him

To the extent true, this is an X factor which could not only impede his development, but run him out of town. That's one thing if we get at least Pysyk from Buffalo or with adds, Rutolainen from the Sabes; it's another if we poisoned his value (initials MDZ ring a bell?).

However, there is more reason than not to be optimistic, although nothing is guaranteed.

Let's say Miller has an impulse to be sophomoric; he NOW has the 'been there, done that' Hartford resume, showing he has nowhere to go but up. Rangers MUST use him HERE, or trade him. It behooves JT to really bend over backwards, not only in effort, but in mind, to succeed here, at least as to entry level. Track record is once he gets acclamated to a level, he succeeds.

Let's say AV's impulse is this IS really MY team NOW, I'm gonna put my own stamp on it NOW. It behooves him too to admit Miller has qualities we need, at a position we need.

So both guys have strong impetus to at least try to make everything work.

------------

With one modification for update, I continue to maintain as I have, regardless of the fact virtually all of you disagree --- I will ultimately be proven right (subject to certain conditions).

Miller is the fastest C we have. Up until the other day, this was not too close, IMO. Lombardi is very fast, and there is always the possibility of chemistry. However, I don't see Lombardi at this point challenging, perhaps that disclaimer may better apply in the future.

That said, Rangers MUST use Kreider and MSL on the same line to max speed. Anything else takes away from the synergy of the whole being greater than the sum of its parts. There is only one conditional scenario that does not apply yet that would change that, which I will discuss below.

Ergo, the forces that be will ultimately have to bend, buckle and break and do this.
If Kreider were to play C, which is not happening, then the same principle could be even better applied with Hags-Kreider-MSL!! but that is not happening, and Hags we believe is strictly a W, so he is not gonna pivot Kreider -MSL.

So if we agree it makes sense (and I'm sure the entire board will challenge me, but in the name of free speech, I politely welcome it, brothers and sisters), Kreider-Miller-MSL is one line.
Projecting Brassard to be qualified at arbitrator level.
Likely w/Zuc he pivots and its Zuc-Brass-Nash.

However, other options: admitting the need to bite the bullet and move Girardi, NOW is the time to do THAT while Leafs still have + would consider Kadri.

Instead of keep magical pair of Bras-Zuc, and trading Stepan, flip that around, trade Bras-Zuc --- a pair Nashville would want --- and do a 2nd line of Kadri - Stepan - Nash

I still think anyone who returns more than they are worth should be moved, so Nash and Stepan should both go, esp. if, having sent Nash to Detroit, a club like the Hawks would make Sharp available at huge discount.

But let's not digress too much.
A sweet Swede 3rd line, of Hagelin-Lindberg-Fast is obvious.
Very happy with Dom Moore back at 4C, and he can step up.

------------------
The other scenario which changes this picture is if INSTEAD of going faster, Rangers decide to go bigger.

If/(hopefully when in August) Hawks prospect Kevin Hayes is signed, depending upon how much he can cut the mustard today, then he might be paired w/Kreider. Miller could still be a fit at pivot there, but there are other contenders.

And Rangers could trade a bunch of guys for someone like Draisatil to create a monster size line, with Kreider-Hayes.
But unless that alternate strategy is employed, speed is the order of the day,

Speed kills, speed rules.

Miller stays with Kreider + Marty.
There may be jerking around, but unless alternate scenarios as I described above, book it.
 
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Ranger fans used to say let the kids play years ago when we had nobody (Lundmark and Brendl).

Now years later after we have had a lot more success with our prospects and people do not want to give guys like JT, Oscar, and Fast a chance to play?
 
I responded to you because you're railing against the stupidest/most extreme 2% of Ranger fans and trying to position yourself as some sort of voice of reason. The sarcasm you and Beacon are using doesn't work too well when you're using it against the dumbest of the dumb.

Worse yet, it loses site of the legitimate argument, which has nothing to do with how Miller and McIlrath will look 5 years from now, but if they can help the Rangers win to start this season.

Nothing I said was sarcastic. At least not in that post. How is saying that some fans would rather see a guy lighting up the CHL than struggle in the NHL in any way sarcastic?

Sorry. Maybe I should just be a year-round doom-and-gloom malcontent instead of explaining to one, two or 400 people that theres nothing wrong with playing a kid who may struggle if it means it makes him a better player down the road.

Its not a science. You think that theres an absolute perfect formula revealing when to promote prospects and when to deny them playing time.

You roll the dice with kids. Lose the battle to win the war. If Miller is given a job but makes bad plays in a couple of losses, you dont say dumb **** like "hes not ready".

Please.
 

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