J.T. Miller this season

[Thirty One]

Good read. But, do you think comparing Miller at age 20 to Dubi at age 20 is fair?

Sure, they play a similar style. Size, decent speed, push the pace kind of forwards who were drafted as centers but might be better suited as wings. The comparisons are all there to make for sure.

Except, Miller was the 15th overall pick, and Dubinsky was 60th. Not to also be discredited is pro experience before the season you are comparing. Miller's 2013-2014 in Hartford came after logging 50 games at the AHL level, and 26 games at the NHL level. Dubinsky's pro experience prior to his 06-07 campaign? 11 AHL post-season games.

I don't see how any of that means Dubinsky > Miller

 

[silverfish]

I don't see how any of that means Dubinsky > Miller

That wasn't necessarily the point of my post. Was just to say that maybe comparing the two seasons you did in the blog was an unfair comparison. That is all.

 

[Thirty One]

That wasn't necessarily the point of my post. Was just to say that maybe comparing the two seasons you did in the blog was an unfair comparison. That is all.

My point was Miller's AHL production suggests he can produce at the NHL level this season. Not sure how his pro experience works against him there.

 

[silverfish]

My point was Miller's AHL production suggests he can produce at the NHL level this season. Not how his pro experience works against him there.

Alrighty.

 

[Steve Kournianos]

I'm talking specifically about the U20 in 2013 because I did not watch the U17 or U18 tournaments. I don't talk about what I don't watch. It's why I didn't mention it in my original post.

I watched every game of that U20 2013 tournament. Miller was not the team's best overall player. That's my opinion. In that tournament, I'd put Galchenyuk, Trouba, Gibson (are we counting goalies?), Gaudreau, and even Jake McCabe before Miller. To not take into account Gaudreau's SEVEN goals because he didn't PK or is only a "skill player" is asinine.

Here's a link to the "Best Player of the Game as Decided By the Team"

http://stats.iihf.com/Hydra/306/IHM306000_85K_17_0.pdf

Count how many times Miller's name shows up. Spoiler alert: It's 0.

Of Gaudreau's 7 goals, 5 came in the elimination rounds. To his resume, Miller did assist on 3 of those. If you want to talk about stepping up when it matters.

These are just my opinions. It's time to get used to the fact that two people can watch the same thing and see it differently. I should look in the mirror when I say that, but at least to my account (or to make myself feel better, I guess) I can try and post facts to back it up. Not just say "Oh my god, did you even watch the games".

Again, you dont have to win awards to validate all the things on the ice. As many mentioned during that tournament (here, the announcers, other fans) Miller was the go-to center in most of the key situations. He took all the key draws, was on the ice fir most of the critical situations.

You can disagree all you want about 2013. Your definition of all-around differs than mine. Best player and best all-around player are two different things.

The fact that you admittedly didnt even watch the u17 and u18 doesnt really help your argument against him.

 

[silverfish]

Again, you dont have to win awards to validate all the things on the ice. As many mentioned during that tournament (here, the announcers, other fans) Miller was the go-to center in most of the key situations. He took all the key draws, was on the ice fir most of the critical situations.

You can disagree all you want about 2013. Your definition of all-around differs than mine. Best player and best all-around player are two different things.

The fact that you admittedly didnt even watch the u17 and u18 doesnt really help your argument against him.

Yes. Not watching the U17 or U18 tournaments really does not help my argument against JT Miller in THOSE TOURNAMENTS. Please highlight anywhere in my posts where I mentioned an opinion on Miller's play in THOSE TOURNAMENTS. Oh, I haven't? I know it's weird, someone on HFNYR not commenting about something they didn't watch. Just try and understand that I'M NOT TALKING AT ALL ABOUT THE U17 OR U18 TOURNAMENTS BECAUSE I DID NOT WATCH THEM.

Now, explain to me how not watching the U17 and U18 tournaments effects my ability to properly pose my own opinion on JT Miller's play at the 2013 U20 for which I watched every USA game.

EDIT - Never mind. I see the way you argue points in other threads. This will go nowhere. You have your opinion and I have mine. We are both entitled to it.

 

[Steve Kournianos]

Yes. Not watching the U17 or U18 tournaments really does not help my argument against JT Miller in THOSE TOURNAMENTS. Please highlight anywhere in my posts where I mentioned an opinion on Miller's play in THOSE TOURNAMENTS. Oh, I haven't? I know it's weird, someone on HFNYR not commenting about something they didn't watch. Just try and understand that I'M NOT TALKING AT ALL ABOUT THE U17 OR U18 TOURNAMENTS BECAUSE I DID NOT WATCH THEM.

Now, explain to me how not watching the U17 and U18 tournaments effects my ability to properly pose my own opinion on JT Miller's play at the 2013 U20 for which I watched every USA game.

EDIT - Never mind. I see the way you argue points in other threads. This will go nowhere. You have your opinion and I have mine. We are both entitled to it.

You were pretty matter-of-fact yourself:

How can you just straight up post an opinon as a fact like that when you know it's completely false? How was JT Miller the "best all-around player" in the 2013 WJC?

LOL.

"How can you have an opinion when it's wrong?"

 

[silverfish]

You were pretty matter-of-fact yourself:

LOL.

"How can you have an opinion when it's wrong?"

Fair. However, I posed an opinion and posted stats and facts to back it up. You posted an opinion and backed it up by saying "I watched it" and "the announcers commented on his play"

Again though, everyone is entitled to their opinion.

 

[haveandare]

When I say Dubinsky's first NHL season, I mean the 07-08 season. Not the 06-07 campaign where he appeared in 6 games and yes, did not look like he belonged. And you are right, a lot of things worked in Dubinsky's favor in the 07-08 year. And he took advantage of it. Let's see if Miller does.

And I disagree on their relative draft positions not mattering. I expect more from a top 15 pick than I do from the last pick of the 2nd round. Let's see what he does.

The pessimism comes from what I have seen JT Miller do at the NHL level thus far. It has been less than inspiring. Less than smart hockey. Less than good hockey. I'm expecting a lot more from him this season, but I won't be surprised if he doesn't show it. Further, I HOPE he does show it. I want Miller to succeed. I'm not rooting against him, I'm just explaining my thoughts on him.



I would never argue otherwise.

I base what I say on what I've seen, and how I perceive that effecting the future. Everything I say about Miller is solely my opinion; and I do my best to back up what I say with facts and stats.

And that's fine. I'm just countering that point with the point that nobody would have expected such play from Dubi at Miller's age either. Therefore, I'm not sure about the worth of wondering if we can picture such play from Miller at his current age.

 

[Steve Kournianos]

Fair. However, I posed an opinion and posted stats and facts to back it up. You posted an opinion and backed it up by saying "I watched it" and "the announcers commented on his play"

Again though, everyone is entitled to their opinion.

I'm not saying you're wrong. If you polled this fan base who the Conn Smythe winner should have been after Lundqvist, you'd get half a dozen different answers.

I judge players on their all-around game and NHL-readiness. For all the moronic things Miller does with the puck (namely the centering passes and penalties), his game translates to the NHL more than almost all the forwards from his draft year.

Miller has one disadvantage -- he was drafted by a good team, so the opportunities are going to be tight.

 

[Steve Kournianos]

Miller can play wing. He's shown that he can be a power forward or a playmaking banger. He's at his best on the forecheck and off the cycle. He's hit or miss in terms of making plays off the rush, but he can shoot if off the rush with accuracy.

At the U18's he played wing on the top line with Grimaldi centering and Boucher on the flank. At the U20's he was centering Gaudreau and Grimaldi and it was a disaster at first. Miller was then used in a shutdown role in between playing on the top-PP unit and centering Gadreau.

I think the Rangers have handled his development the right way. He needs to mature a little, but not to the point where he loses the edge to his game.

Expect some line juggling with him between wing and center. AV needs to have a longer leash. If the kid still acts like a hot head, give him a few breaks and let the veterans help bring him along.

 

[Infinitum Vitae*]

Quick question for those who watch miller in the A. What do you think his ceiling is compared to a player? Maybe someone like ROR?

 

[Steve Kournianos]

Quick question for those who watch miller in the A. What do you think his ceiling is compared to a player? Maybe someone like ROR?

Obviously not as disciplined as ROR. He also wont be a Selke type but he's not bad in his own end.

Very similar in their aggressiveness and size even though Miller is thicker and a tougher body to move.

Miller should develop into a 20-20 guy with the possibility of increased minutes. The question is how much patience the staff will have with him.

 

[Raspewtin]

Quick question for those who watch miller in the A. What do you think his ceiling is compared to a player? Maybe someone like ROR?

Obviously I don't think his career will turn out like his, but he reminds me a lot of Ryan Kesler.

Don't see the ROR comparison.

 

[Infinitum Vitae*]

Obviously I don't think his career will turn out like his, but he reminds me a lot of Ryan Kesler.

Don't see the ROR comparison.

I thought ROR cuz gritty type center who can finish

 

[Thirty One]

I thought ROR cuz gritty type center who can finish

The guy who had 2 PIMs this season?

 

[KingWantsCup]

JT Miller

JT is bound to have a bigger role on the team next year. What are your expectations?

 

[free0717]

JT is bound to have a bigger role on the team next year. What are your expectations?

3rd line center

12 goals, 25 assists

 

[Nonvolition]

I think Dominic Moore is going to be slotted into the 3rd line center position to start the season, and expectations for Miller will be low (safe), leaving room for him to surprise us. The position is his to take if he earns it, but based on the body of work that he's had at the NHL level, slotting him in the 3rd line center position to start the year, barring an insane camp/preseason, is a bit ambitious. I'd love to see him succeed, but he's not above Dominic Moore on the depth chart just yet.

 

[pld459666]

Strictly my opinion, I think Miller gets the 3rd line spot for a few reasons.

Keeping Nash with Stepan and Kreider make to much sense. They have displayed solid chemistry and with a more physically imposing and assertive Kreider, I believe there is going to be more room for Nash to get back to that 35 goal sniper we all know he is capable of being.

Brassard center Zuccs on his right side also make sense. They read each other very well. Regardless of who the actual catalyst is, to me it makes no difference. They work well together. Stempniak I think was signed to do what Pouliot did while taking less dumb penalties. Size differential is marginal at best in that Poo is taller where as Stempniak is thicker due to carrying the same weight at a shorter height. Lee, I feel is a better point producer. Seasons of 52, 48, 44 points not to mention two other seasons of 38 points each lead me to believe that in the right situation, he could get back there. I think that Lee will better benefit from Brassard and Zuccs than Poo could.

Leaving the 3rd line (in name only) with Hagelin and MSL on the wings. The Rangers are counting on Miller developing. Moore and or Lombardi are short term solutions. Miller is part of the long term plan in NY be that as a roster player or as a trade chip down the line. Either way, the Rangers have an obligation to themselves to aid in the kids developement. It's in their own interest to see that the kid develops his offensive game. Again either for self benefit or to be used as a chip.

There's no one else on the roster I would trust more to help draw out that offensive ability than MSL. He did that directly with Tyler Johnson last year and indirectly with both Ondrej Palat and Alex Killorn. Was it MSL alone that did all of this? Of course not. But that team was populated with a ton of young and inexperienced kids and they thrived. MSL was as much a reason for that as any other reason you can come up with.

Kreider - Stepan - Nash
Stempniak - Brassard - Zuccarello
Hagelin - Miller - St. Louis
Any combo of Glass, Lombardi, Moore, Fast and or Lindberg