Speculation: J.T. Miller for Kevin Fiala +

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NYVanfan

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i think we ppl can and do debate the relative value of prospects vs roster players, but it seems to me with $14M in cap penalties coming the Wild would be extra inclined to keep young guys who can contribute on ELCs ...so I would expect it to be extra hard to get young guys from there for that reason alone
 

Goose312

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Would Fiala though? 2 years of Miller is better, than 1 year of Fiala.
Fiala is a RFA with arbitration rights 1 year from UFA. At a bare minimum he's effectively under the same length contract as Miller. Since he's an RFA VAN has the inside track on negotiation next year to sign him long term if they want to. If they don't then Fiala defaults to a 1 year deal. That 1 year deal will either be signing his QO, making him slightly cheaper than Miller, or if he ends up having a good year he goes to arbitration which can only award a 1 year deal and maybe gets a little more the 2nd year.
 

Sota Popinski

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Fancy stats like xGAR, xWAR, RAPM show Fiala as better. Per 60 goals and points show Fiala as equal. And remember Fiala is doing this with bottom six players. So is Lambos equal to the difference in value between winger and center? Short answer is no.
Guerin has shown how much he values chemistry and cost certainty with the Suter buyout. Maybe getting rid of an unhappy camper, filling a position of need and getting cost certainty for next year is worth it to him.
 

AKL

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Guerin has shown how much he values chemistry and cost certainty with the Suter buyout. Maybe getting rid of an unhappy camper, filling a position of need and getting cost certainty for next year is worth it to him.

He's also shown how much he's not going to trade young guys that can contribute on cheap contracts throughout the buyouts, which Lambos is.

To be clear, I can see him trading Fiala for Miller. What I can't see, and what would be an incredibly poor move, would be to include Lambos in that deal.
 

Goose312

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On what planet is the 26th pick in the draft worth an unprotected 1st four months later? You're delusional
Lambos was a high projected pick prior to the 20-21 season. He than had an undisclosed medical condition that lead to him losing much of an already unusual season in his pre-draft year. That killed his draft stock. The Wild picked him obviously hoping it would be good value for a player that would regain his prior form. He's 2nd in WHL defensemen scoring and by all accounts playing a great overall game. I doubt the Wild see him as typical 26th overall in value, though saying the pick should be unprotected is a stretch.
 

Nucklehead Supreme

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You have to value the player once the draft is completed, not the number.

Ok what has that player done in a 18 games to prove he is worth a lottery pick now?

I get why Wild fans don't want to trade any of their prospects but to say a guy that was drafted 26th OA in one the weakest drafts in history is somehow worth a lottery pick now after playing 18 games is completely ludicrous.

If you don't support trading the player, fine, but don't come on here and make bogus insinuations because of it.
 

thestonedkoala

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Ahh, so once the Wild drafted him, his value as a player skyrocketed. Makes sense

If Lambos was on any other team, he would be more valued - especially a Canadian team. Look at Nick Robertson and his value because he's a Leaf.

Before the season, Lambos was seen as one of the best defensemen in the draft. Questions came up and he slid, but he was considered a draft day steal if he could start putting his game back together and he has.

to say a guy that was drafted 26th OA in one the weakest drafts in history is somehow worth a lottery pick now after playing 18 games is completely ludicrous.

It wasn't a weak draft; it was an under scouted draft. Instead of being able to watch these kids play, a lot of scouts couldn't. Seasons were cut short. Weak draft =/= poorly scouted.

Also Lambos was SEEN as a lottery pick.
 

Goose312

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Ok what has that player done in a 18 games to prove he is worth a lottery pick now?

I get why Wild fans don't want to trade any of their prospects but to say a guy that was drafted 26th OA in one the weakest drafts in history is somehow worth a lottery pick now after playing 18 games is completely ludicrous.

If you don't support trading the player, fine, but don't come on here and make bogus insinuations because of it.
He returned to form to prove his injury didn't hold back his development from when he was ranked 2nd by sportsnet and 6th by Pronman and Wheeler in the pre 20-21 draft rankings among others. How many games are required to adjust the perception of a player based on their draft position? Boeser was picked at 23rd. Are you saying his value didn't go up 19 games into his freshman season while leading North Dakota in scoring on route to an eventual national championship?
 

Dr Jan Itor

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Ok what has that player done in a 18 games to prove he is worth a lottery pick now?

I get why Wild fans don't want to trade any of their prospects but to say a guy that was drafted 26th OA in one the weakest drafts in history is somehow worth a lottery pick now after playing 18 games is completely ludicrous.

If you don't support trading the player, fine, but don't come on here and make bogus insinuations because of it.

Prove? Nothing.

But there's a pretty high chance that organization saw him as a lottery-type talent when they picked him, which is probably how they would value him, whether it was one minute after he was pick or right now.
 

Nucklehead Supreme

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Prove? Nothing.

But there's a pretty high chance that organization saw him as a lottery-type talent when they picked him, which is probably how they would value him, whether it was one minute after he was pick or right now.

That's great, but doesn't in any way explain why another team should value him as such.
 

Nucklehead Supreme

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He returned to form to prove his injury didn't hold back his development from when he was ranked 2nd by sportsnet and 6th by Pronman and Wheeler in the pre 20-21 draft rankings among others. How many games are required to adjust the perception of a player based on their draft position? Boeser was picked at 23rd. Are you saying his value didn't go up 19 games into his freshman season while leading North Dakota in scoring on route to an eventual national championship?

No it didn't, no one would have said he was magically worth a lottery pick either.
 

Nucklehead Supreme

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If Lambos was on any other team, he would be more valued - especially a Canadian team. Look at Nick Robertson and his value because he's a Leaf.

Before the season, Lambos was seen as one of the best defensemen in the draft. Questions came up and he slid, but he was considered a draft day steal if he could start putting his game back together and he has.



It wasn't a weak draft; it was an under scouted draft. Instead of being able to watch these kids play, a lot of scouts couldn't. Seasons were cut short. Weak draft =/= poorly scouted.

Also Lambos was SEEN as a lottery pick.

Lies, if any other fanbase made such a claim after said player played in 18 games they would be heavily criticized, again 18 games. Nobody is buying that excuse.

Again 18 games is the definition of small sample size.


He was seen as a lottery pick but was drafted 26th OA a position in the draft which more often than not equals a 3rd liner or middle pairing dman at best.....sure....sure
 

AKL

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That's great, but doesn't in any way explain why another team should value him as such.

You shouldn't value him as such, but it doesn't mean the Wild have to value him at whatever you deem fair either.
 

AHLdepth

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Not the type of trade I would LIKE Benning to make, but maybe an idea of something HE would make?

Miller+Rathbone for Fiala+Addison+3rd?

Essentially Miller's value is Fiala and a third, plus the minimal upgrade of trading two very similar skillset prospects but Canucks get the RHD version?
 

AKL

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Not the type of trade I would LIKE Benning to make, but maybe an idea of something HE would make?

Miller+Rathbone for Fiala+Addison+3rd?

Essentially Miller's value is Fiala and a third, plus the minimal upgrade of trading two very similar skillset prospects but Canucks get the RHD version?

Wild have no reason to swap Addison for Rathbone. Addison is our only viable RD prospect, we have plenty of LD prospects.
 

Nucklehead Supreme

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You shouldn't value him as such, but it doesn't mean the Wild have to value him at whatever you deem fair either.

I never said you did, I merely pointed out the fact that asking for a lottery pick as compensation is ludicrous, you don't want to trade him, fine, I get it, then just say that.
 

AKL

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I never said you did, I merely pointed out the fact that asking for a lottery pick as compensation is ludicrous, you don't want to trade him, fine, I get it, then just say that.

But I would trade him, provided it was a lottery pick coming back, so saying I wouldn't trade him, or he's untouchable, is disingenuous.
 

Boondock

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JT Miller since coming to Van:

Regular season: 141gp 49g 88a 137pts (.97 ppg)

Playoffs: 17gp 6g 12a 18pts (1.06 ppg)


Per 82 you’re getting a guy who has averaged:

28g 51a 79pts 151 hits 56 FO% 20:38 TOI

He plays PP1, PK1, our top line at ES, and plays all 3 forward positions.


How many other forwards in the league have been as good as him the last 3 seasons while providing his level of versatility? He’s a power forward who kills penalties, is one of the best faceoff guys in the NHL, and plays an in your face game that few other players in the NHL do. My guess is if he’s available nearly every GM for a contending team is interested. Power forwards like Miller are so rare in todays NHL and we know for a fact that GMs will overpay for big, skilled, physical forwards.

You might want to check that Minnesota has that in Marcus foligno, Jordan greenway, and Brandon duhaime. So if your example is being big, getting up in opponent face and fighting, then Minnesota wouldn't want him because of that

If that was your take away from that post, its probably best if you show yourself out. That is a brutal take for the post you replied to. Unless your point was that over the past 3 seasons Miller has single handedly out produced those 3 players combined and he does the other things they do to - then its an acceptable take.

That is exactly my take. But instead of reading what I wrote, you just attacked like how people do before reading other's post. I literally wrote Minnesota wouldn't trade for JT because he's tough, or can fight. Nowhere did I say he's not good, or Minnesota wouldn't trade for him because of his skills

Just so we are clear -
Post #1: Poster identifies 3 seasons worth of offensive stats for Miller. Indicates he PK's, PP's, is good at face offs and is a top line producer in Vancouver. Posts 1 stat buried in his post indicating hits, and stated in a brief passing comment he plays in your face style.
Post#2: You state you might want to check - the Wild have Foligno, Greenway and Duhaime and comment of fighting (the first mention of fighting by anyone in) Completely ignoring 97% of the post you are responding to. Getting hung up on the description of Miller as "plays in your face" again a insignificant sentence in the overall post.
Post#3: I respond stating, if fighting and size is your only take away from the original post you replied to - you've quite clearly missed the point.
Post#4: You sniffle about me not reading your post, and attacking without reading......
Post#5: Me trying to remind you that you took 2 words of a post totally out of context, exaggerated it and made it the hill you wanted to die on.
May I kindly suggest prior to any further interaction in regards to this thread, you reread the post you are wanting to reply to, make sure the point you want to make was even relevant to the post you are replying to. Because when you respond to a post and go rogue in your response it appears maybe you are the one that isn't fully comprehending the conversation.
 

Nucklehead Supreme

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But I would trade him, provided it was a lottery pick coming back, so saying I wouldn't trade him, or he's untouchable, is disingenuous.

So then say overpay, because you know there isn't a team in the NHL that would give up a lottery pick right now for him. Thinking that is being deliberately obtuse.
 

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