Player Discussion Ivan Demidov: Welcome to Montreal

[Tyson]

Setting up a great young player for failure by playing him on the Abyss Line.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

lol we are just going to forget about the impact Julien, Richardson, Weber and the vets in the 2021 had on Nick and Cole’s career? MSL took over the development from many other people. MSL can take credit for Guhle and Slaf, I’m giving Hudson’s credit to Pandolf and the boys at BU who groomed him I into a wicked pro player before he got here. Hutson literally got here and was our best dman, MSL did what exactly? After a while he let him play, he didn’t show him how to play D one bit. He gave him chances, yay?

Hating on MSL is a crazy take , all coaches have warts , this guy brought a bottom 10 team to the playoffs what do you want more from him?

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Have you watched Kucherov play?

Have you watched Joe Sakic?

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

You can't be just a great player and win 3 Art Ross in the same era as McDavid and MacKinnon.

In terms of pure passing and playmaking abity, Kucherov is better than both. Sure they are more complete players because of their physical attributes, but Kucherov IQ and playmaking put him up right there with the best of this generation.

Also, don't be surprised if Kucherov wins the Art Ross again for the next 2 years. He is that good.

He's awesome. So was Sakic, so was Yzerman... neither were generational and neither is Kucherov.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

lol we are just going to forget about the impact Julien, Richardson, Weber and the vets in the 2021 had on Nick and Cole’s career? MSL took over the development from many other people. MSL can take credit for Guhle and Slaf, I’m giving Hudson’s credit to Pandolf and the boys at BU who groomed him I into a wicked pro player before he got here. Hutson literally got here and was our best dman, MSL did what exactly? After a while he let him play, he didn’t show him how to play D one bit. He gave him chances, yay?

Cole Caufield had one goal in 41 games under Ducharme. He immediately took off under MSL. You think that's coincidence?

And nobody is going to give any coach all the credit for a player's development. It doesn't work that way. But almost all our players have developed well under MSL. The idea that he's somehow holding Demidov back (after THREE games in the NHL) is stupid.

 

[Bombshell11]

Have you watched Joe Sakic?

I have actually not, too young to care

So you answered my question which you don't know what you're talking about in regards to Kucherov

Its ok to be wrong

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Bombshell dropping another masterpiece right now

Generational hot takes

 

[Big Trout]

Poor Ivan is stuck watching Laine be a massive puck hog and fumble it over and over and over and over again....

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I have actually not, too young to care

So you answered my question which you don't know what you're talking about in regards to Kucherov

So because you don't know anything about Joe Sakic and Yzerman it means I don't know what I'm talking about?

Its ok to be wrong

Good. Because you're wrong.

'Generational' is a relative term. Players can be dominant and not generational. Yzerman and Sakic are about as close to generational as you can get without being generational.

And yes, Kuch has won three scoring titles. Very impressive. But he's done so mostly when others have been injured. He's just not at that level.

Here's a borderline generational player for you: Guy Lafleur. He also had three Rosses and was a beast in the playoffs. But on top of that the guy had five seasons top five in goals. One of only three players to do six straight 50/100 point seasons. Won everything under the sun, was the best player in hockey for about five years and even there he's borderline generational.

Generational is a term that gets thrown around way too much. Drai, Kuch, Mackinnon... all are at the same level. Great players. But they aren't McDavid. THAT guy is generational.

 

[Bombshell11]

Generational is a term that gets thrown around way too much. Drai, Kuch, Mackinnon... all are at the same level. Great players. But they aren't McDavid. THAT guy is generational.

Why is McDavid Generational ?

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Why is McDavid Generational ?

5 Art Rosses
3rd best postseason points per game (Behind Gretzky Lemieux)
3rd highest points per game regular season (Behind Gretzky Lemieux)
Until this season, since coming into the league he's 1st or 2nd in Points per game every year (3rd this year)

He is head and shoulders the best player in the league and has been since he stepped onto the ice. And he's just as good in the playoffs. THAT is a generational player.

Kucherov, MackInnon and Drai are all in the same group - awesome players that will be sure fire HOFers. But they aren't McDavid.

Calling Demidov 'generational' or suggesting he has 'generational' potential isn't doing him any favours. He's uber talentend but let's lay off the 'generational' stuff right now. It's a long road. I believe in him and think he can be a true star but 'generational' is very, very rare. Like I said, if he gets anywhere close to Kucherov I'd be ecstatic. We all should be.

 

[Habs]

Hating on MSL is a crazy take , all coaches have warts , this guy brought a bottom 10 team to the playoffs what do you want more from him?

Where did I hate on msl in my comment ? I wait for your quotes taken out of context. Msl didn’t capture nick or Cole and that’s a fact.

 

[Habs]

Cole Caufield had one goal in 41 games under Ducharme. He immediately took off under MSL. You think that's coincidence?

And nobody is going to give any coach all the credit for a player's development. It doesn't work that way. But almost all our players have developed well under MSL. The idea that he's somehow holding Demidov back (after THREE games in the NHL) is stupid.

Cole was a stud in the playoffs when we had our run

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Cole was a stud in the playoffs when we had our run

And then he went 41 games with one goal.

Again, nobody is going to sit here and say that MSL taught him how to put the puck in the net. That's not how it works. But he certainly helped to bring out the best in him. He played to his strengths and Caufield responded immediately.

Tough situation for Demidov right now. We don't have a second line for him to play on. So all we can do is give him some ice and let him show what he can do with it. I expect nothing from him right now. Next year is when the development begins.

 

[Habs]

And then he went 41 games with one goal.

Again, nobody is going to sit here and say that MSL taught him how to put the puck in the net. That's not how it works. But he certainly helped to bring out the best in him. He played to his strengths and Caufield responded immediately.

Tough situation for Demidov right now. We don't have a second line for him to play on. So all we can do is give him some ice and let him show what he can do with it. I expect nothing from him right now. Next year is when the development begins.

But I’m not worried about Demidov at all.

 

[Marioesque]

Laine is no longer NHL player on a decent team. I thought that maybe, just maybe he can be at least AHL level, but nope.

He was the 3rd best forward yesterday by any metric so I guess we should fill the roster with Laval and just leave Suzuki and Caufield up?

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

But I’m not worried about Demidov at all.

Another poster said that Demidov not producing was a 'coaching issue'... nothing to do with the fact that he's only three games into his NHL career and one has been in the postseason.

 

[Bombshell11]

5 Art Rosses

Kucherov has 3... your point? he just won 2 in a row, McDavid is showing signs of decline where as Kucherov has been steady, nothing tells us Kucherov wont keep this pace for another 2-3 years.

3rd best postseason points per game (Behind Gretzky Lemieux),

Kucherov won 2 stanley cups and was in the finals once. Playoff stats can be misleading as when teams take the lead and close the game early, the vets rest.

3rd highest points per game regular season (Behind Gretzky Lemieux)

From 2016-2017 Kucherov is 0.07 PPG behind McDavid, your point?

Until this season, since coming into the league he's 1st or 2nd in Points per game every year (3rd this year)

Pretty much same story for Kucherov

He is head and shoulders the best player in the league and has been since he stepped onto the ice. And he's just as good in the playoffs. THAT is a generational player.

Same can be said for Kucherov

MackInnon and Drai are all in the same group - awesome players that will be sure fire HOFers. But they aren't McDavid.

Nor are they Kucherovs

Calling Demidov 'generational' or suggesting he has 'generational' potential isn't doing him any favours. He's uber talentend but let's lay off the 'generational' stuff right now. It's a long road. I believe in him and think he can be a true star but 'generational' is very, very rare. Like I said, if he gets anywhere close to Kucherov I'd be ecstatic. We all should be.

2 pts in hist first 3 shifts uncoached, straight from Russia to the bell center.

St.Louis doesn't want him to steal the spot light from the vets so he's playing him 10 mins a game, no 1st PP and with 2 of the worst linemates.

We all saw what was Rottenburg doing in the KHL, we all saw he could have scored so many more points but was held behind.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Poor Ivan is stuck watching Laine be a massive puck hog and fumble it over and over and over and over again....

Demidov was far worse than Laine last game. He looked overwhelmed by NHL playoff hockey, which isn’t surprising, considering he essentially jumped straight from the KHL to the NHL playoffs. That’s a massive leap, and it takes time to adjust. He wouldn't have looked good in Game 1 no matter who his linemates were.

 

[Nicko999]

Demidov was far worse than Laine last game. He looked overwhelmed by NHL playoff hockey, which isn’t surprising, considering he essentially jumped straight from the KHL to the NHL playoffs. That’s a massive leap, and it takes time to adjust. He wouldn't have looked good in Game 1 no matter who his linemates were.

Exactly.
I want to see him show flashes before changing that line.
No need to change the 2 other lines to accommodate a struggling player.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Kucherov has 3... your point? he just won 2 in a row, McDavid is showing signs of decline where as Kucherov has been steady, nothing tells us Kucherov wont keep this pace for another 2-3 years.

If Kucherov wins five scoring titles then you can get back to me on this.

Kucherov won 2 stanley cups and was in the finals once. Playoff stats can be misleading as when teams take the lead and close the game early, the vets rest.

The Lightning won 2 cups - not Kucherov by himself. That Tampa team was one of the best balanced teams in recent history. Yes, Kucherov's a big part of it but those teams were vastly superior to McDavid's.

And there's nothing misleading about McDavid's playoff points. He's done amazingly well on bad clubs. He's the Carey Price of forwards - bad clubs that he has to carry.

From 2016-2017 Kucherov is 0.07 PPG behind McDavid, your point?

McDavid's three years younger and has done much more.

My point is that one is generational and the other is not.

Pretty much same story for Kucherov

No it isn't. McDavid's been 1st or 2nd eight times and once he was third. Kucherov has done if four times and is three years older.

Same can be said for Kucherov

Not the same thing. Not close.

Nor are they Kucherovs

They're younger and score more goals. Yes, they're comparable.

2 pts in hist first 3 shifts uncoached, straight from Russia to the bell center.

St.Louis doesn't want him to steal the spot light from the vets so he's playing him 10 mins a game, no 1st PP and with 2 of the worst linemates.

We all saw what was Rottenburg doing in the KHL, we all saw he could have scored so many more points but was held behind.

He doesn't want him to steal the spotlight? What????

MSL isn't going to break up a line that's working and we don't have a 2nd line center. It is what it is. He's a kid being put into the playoffs... that's not a coaching issue.

 

[Bombshell11]

If Kucherov wins five scoring titles then you can get back to me on this.

He won 2024 and 2025, so see you in 2 years?

McDavid's three years younger and has done much more.

Kucherov has been a late bloomer. You're counting this as a minus where as i count it as a plus.

My point is that one is generational and the other is not.

Lets forget about age, i dont see how its relevant in this context

He doesn't want him to steal the spotlight? What????

Absolutely. He doesn't want to upset the vets and has said publicly Demidov is not coming here as a saviour and that the guys here have been fighting all year long to get us where we are...

MSL isn't going to break up a line that's working and we don't have a 2nd line center. It is what it is. He's a kid being put into the playoffs... that's not a coaching issue.

No1: Demidov would do alot better on the first than Slaf. thats a fact.

No2: Laine has no business on the 1st PP, Demi could easely replace him.

 

[Matthew McConaughay]

Looks like MSL has put a leash on Demidov,he doesn't try to confront the players when attacking the opponent's zone, he's one of best one on one.

 

[OldCraig71]

IMO Demidov is much more ready than Lafleur when entering the NHL. Let’s be fair here, Lafleur never played 5 on 5 in the playoffs with someone with the 0-60 acceleration of an old rundown truck. Literally play him with 2 players that can follow NHL speed (talented or not) and he’ll do great.

I'm sorry but my fuse is a little short lately for a variety of reasons, but you basically repeated everything I just said and framed it as a rebuttal.

 

[Kennerback]

I'm sorry but my fuse is a little short lately for a variety of reasons, but you basically repeated everything I just said and framed it as a rebuttal.

It wasn't a rebuttal. It was an affirmation of what you had said with adding a bit of my opinion, which you might or might not agree with. Not presuming.