Prospect Info: Ivan Demidov (2024 5th OA): SKA St. Petersburg (KHL)

[BigDaddyLurch]

Mario Lemieux would have more points today than he did back then. Look what he did as an old man after years off when they got rid of the obstruction rules.

The only way to stop Lemieux was to hold on to him for dear life. Yeah, McDavid would be super fast in the 80s but he doesn’t have to deal with obstruction the way those players did. It’s a completely different game and far more geared towards offense now.

Lemieux would be the all time scorer in today’s game. There’d simply be no way to stop him.

Edit: Aaaand I’m realizing this is the Demodov thread…. Moving on.

...said it before and I'll say it again; Mario was the greatest player I've ever seen play and that includes Gretz's entire career...

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

I really dislike the argument that past great players wouldn't succeed in today's game. I believe that great players would be great players regardless of the era that they play in.

You say McDavid gets 200 points in Mario's day? Well I reply by saying Gretz and Mario would break records today, with the advances in equipment technology, nutrition, scientific knowledge and especially the way the game is played/called today.

Imagine Mario without having players waterskiing him, crosschecking etc. He would break a 100 goal season.

Bottom line is that any great player in any generation would succeed regardless of the era. IMHO.

Gretzky and Mario would score far less, that is an indisputable fact. The fact that you are implying that it was harder to score in the Eighties and early 90's is laughable and entirely refuted by the facts.

Gretzky, Orr and Mario were great players and would be in any generation but McDavid is absolutely on par with them imo. I watched Wayne and Mario's entire careers including before they were drafted and their stats were inflated by playing in a watered down league with terrible goalies and poor defensive systems. Perhaps you should take a look at the rest of the scoring leaders and the top goalies stats lol. You are simply arguing solely from bias and have zero evidence to support your claim.

Gretzky would struggle the most out of the three that I mentioned as he did not have the speed or physicality that the others brought. Gretzky took advantage of absurdly poor competition and was in the right place at the right time. He would still be a great player but if you think Gretzky would be anywhere remotely close to 200 points in today's NHL you are putting forth a delusional narrative.

 

[Toene]

Mario Lemieux would have more points today than he did back then. Look what he did as an old man after years off when they got rid of the obstruction rules.

The only way to stop Lemieux was to hold on to him for dear life. Yeah, McDavid would be super fast in the 80s but he doesn’t have to deal with obstruction the way those players did. It’s a completely different game and far more geared towards offense now.

Lemieux would be the all time scorer in today’s game. There’d simply be no way to stop him.

Edit: Aaaand I’m realizing this is the Demodov thread…. Moving on.

It's on topic since we're discussing the meaning of the generational label and what a generation is and represents.

I dont want to get technical and invoke the boring forum etiquette mumbo-jumbo that nobody cares about, but that discussion is officially legit because it is directly related to the fact that Demidov is the best hockey player in the history of humanity. I request full immunity.

 

[26Mats]

Gretzky and Mario would score far less, that is an indisputable fact. The fact that you are implying that it was harder to score in the Eighties and early 90's is laughable and entirely refuted by the facts.

Gretzky, Orr and Mario were great players and would be in any generation but McDavid is absolutely on par with them imo. I watched Wayne and Mario's entire careers including before they were drafted and their stats were inflated by playing in a watered down league with terrible goalies and poor defensive systems. Perhaps you should take a look at the rest of the scoring leaders and the top goalies stats lol. You are simply arguing solely from bias and have zero evidence to support your claim.

Gretzky would struggle the most out of the three that I mentioned as he did not have the speed or physicality that the others brought. Gretzky took advantage of absurdly poor competition and was in the right place at the right time. He would still be a great player but if you think Gretzky would be anywhere remotely close to 200 points in today's NHL you are putting forth a delusional narrative.

Gretzky would be bigger (more muscular) and probably faster with today's training regiments.

It's just so hard for me to know what Gretzky would be or do in today's game.

But the fact that he was so egregiously able to take advantage of the short comings of his era, when no one else could to the extent that he did, says a lot.

Would be interesting to see what prime Gretzky could do with modern training, one piece sticks, advanced technology of skates, etc... Could Ovechkin score all the goals he has with those shitty Titan wood sticks Gretzky used, even as bad as the goaltending pre-Roy butterfly was? Probably. But Ovi wouldn't have even been in the NHL because he was Russian, to your point about competition...

 

[the valiant effort]

Broken Mario paced for 145 pts in 2001 and 111 pts in 2003 but yeah he’d be in tough today against Alex Kerfoot, Ethan Bear, and Cayden Primeau

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

Gretzky would be bigger (more muscular) and probably faster with today's training regiments.

It's just so hard for me to know what Gretzky would be or do in today's game.

But the fact that he was so egregiously able to take advantage of the short comings of his era, when no one else could to the extent that he did, says a lot.

Would be interesting to see what prime Gretzky could do with modern training, one piece sticks, advanced technology of skates, etc... Could Ovechkin score all the goals he has with those shitty Titan wood sticks Gretzky used, even as bad as the goaltending pre-Roy butterfly was? Probably. But Ovi wouldn't have even been in the NHL because he was Russian, to your point about competition...

Many good points although I would suggest that Gretzky would still have the same relative speed, strength disadvantage as he wouldn't gain on anyone as opposed to simply progressing on the same curve as his contemporaries. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that Lemieux would be superior to Gretzky in today's game.

I generally prefer to avoid these post modern discussions as there isn't much point to them but there were such bad arguments being made here that I had to try and intervene lol.

 

[Hanji]

Ref lecturing Demidov.

 

[Kennerback]

It's on topic since we're discussing the meaning of the generational label and what a generation is and represents.

I dont want to get technical and invoke the boring forum etiquette mumbo-jumbo that nobody cares about, but that discussion is officially legit because it is directly related to the fact that Demidov is the best hockey player in the history of humanity. I request full immunity.

Bedard being the one recent player pre-draft being called generational made me use him as a yardstick to evaluate elite young players. He’s still in all the high profile commercials and marketing campaigns.

But the fact he’s about 100th in goal scoring right now is skewing my evaluations.

So I’ll fall back on the other recent reference point McDavid. and will reevaluate Celebrini and all the others in comparison.

 

[Bombshell11]

Bedard being the one recent player pre-draft being called generational made me use him as a yardstick to evaluate elite young players. He’s still in all the high profile commercials and marketing campaigns.

But the fact he’s about 100th in goal scoring right now is skewing my evaluations.

So I’ll fall back on the other recent reference point McDavid. and will reevaluate Celebrini and all the others in comparison.

Yeah personally, it feels like the LNH is trying to troll the whole world into making everyone believe Bedard is something special.

I dont get how the marketing and commercial deals work but it seems like all these ads and media spots were ordered and commissioned years in advance.

It speaks volume about the LNH’s competence and intentions.

Its like a dumb person trying to be malicious. It doesnt work. They’re getting exposed and its fun to watch. Imo.


As for Demi

I do think he’ll do better than McDavid did in his rookie year but im not sure he’s got the guys around him to help him produce at the 150 pts range eventually but hes got the potential for sure.

Its a no brainer, he’s a generational player

 

[Habs Halifax]

Did Celebrini play wing or center last year with Boston Univ?

I really do think we have our 2C with Demidov. At the very least, we have a star puck possession winger for Dach to work with.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Gretzky would be bigger (more muscular) and probably faster with today's training regiments.

It's just so hard for me to know what Gretzky would be or do in today's game.

But the fact that he was so egregiously able to take advantage of the short comings of his era, when no one else could to the extent that he did, says a lot.

Would be interesting to see what prime Gretzky could do with modern training, one piece sticks, advanced technology of skates, etc... Could Ovechkin score all the goals he has with those shitty Titan wood sticks Gretzky used, even as bad as the goaltending pre-Roy butterfly was? Probably. But Ovi wouldn't have even been in the NHL because he was Russian, to your point about competition...

The thing that separates good players from stars is the obsession to improve (doesn't matter the era). If Gretzs was born in the latest era, he would be growing up with these kids and competing with them with that same obsession to improve.

Two of the biggest factors separating the have from have nots....
1) Obsession and will power to improve
2) Hockey IQ.

Lots of players have skill but they lack the will power and IQ. Gretz would still be a star in today's game and probably like McDavid.

How does this apply to Demidov? Many guys in his situation would get deflated and uninspired if their min's were reduced like that. He overcame it which does show us his will power.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Did Celebrini play wing or center last year with Boston Univ?

I really do think we have our 2C with Demidov. At the very least, we have a star puck possession winger for Dach to work with.

Celebrini played center, as he has for pretty much his entire career.

 

[LaP]

Gretzky would be bigger (more muscular) and probably faster with today's training regiments.

It's just so hard for me to know what Gretzky would be or do in today's game.

But the fact that he was so egregiously able to take advantage of the short comings of his era, when no one else could to the extent that he did, says a lot.

Would be interesting to see what prime Gretzky could do with modern training, one piece sticks, advanced technology of skates, etc... Could Ovechkin score all the goals he has with those shitty Titan wood sticks Gretzky used, even as bad as the goaltending pre-Roy butterfly was? Probably. But Ovi wouldn't have even been in the NHL because he was Russian, to your point about competition...

When people say this old player from the 80ies and early 90ies would have struggled to do 40 points in today's hockey i always respond with this. Jagr did 27 goals and 66 points in 2015-2016 as a 43 years old player. I've seen him play in his prime and at 43 he was half the player he used to be. He was slow. His shot was weak. It was honestly sad to watch for someone who saw him in his prime. Prime Jagr would have doubled those numbers very easily.

 

[Kennerback]

Montreal’s already screwed over a handful of young players during my lifetime because of off-ice issues. Management always says this time is different. And next thing you know kid is downtown every night getting into trouble.
THEY.CANT.f***.UP.DEMIDOV!!!

I think this could be an idea.



For English speakers: Demidov will be Montreal’s Russian teenage superstar. Can the Habs do a building for the team’s kids or floor at the Bell center for the kids (me: Demidov, Hutson, Slaf)
They further add that Washington had Ovy’s mother in town.
(Me: I heard through the grapevine that kids in Pittsburgh had at some point a building where they had parties. They were supervised. And I never heard the slightest hint of trouble from them)

Me= When Lafleur was f***ing up on Crescent street, or Chelios was being stalked by Pat Burns, it was kept on the down low. With social media, it’s impossible.

 

[LaP]

Yeah personally, it feels like the LNH is trying to troll the whole world into making everyone believe Bedard is something special.

I dont get how the marketing and commercial deals work but it seems like all these ads and media spots were ordered and commissioned years in advance.

It speaks volume about the LNH’s competence and intentions.

Its like a dumb person trying to be malicious. It doesnt work. They’re getting exposed and its fun to watch. Imo.


As for Demi

I do think he’ll do better than McDavid did in his rookie year but im not sure he’s got the guys around him to help him produce at the 150 pts range eventually but hes got the potential for sure.

Its a no brainer, he’s a generational player

The NHL did nothing. Bedard's junior numbers are generational.

10th all time for ppg in the whl
1st for ppg among players born after 1970 in the whl
15th all time for ppg at the u20
4th for ppg among players born after 1990 at the u20
4th all time for ppg in a single u20 tournament

 

[Bombshell11]

The NHL did nothing. Bedard's junior numbers are generational.

10th all time for ppg in the whl
1st for ppg among players born after 1970 in the whl
15th all time for ppg at the u20
4th for ppg among players born after 1990 at the u20
4th all time for ppg in a single u20 tournament

Lockdown era,means nothing, shane wright had special status like mcdavid and is a nothing burger in the nhl.

 

[BJCOLLINS]

Broken Mario paced for 145 pts in 2001 and 111 pts in 2003 but yeah he’d be in tough today against Alex Kerfoot, Ethan Bear, and Cayden Primeau

Did you see Ovi at the Gretz museum(?) in Edmonton yesterday before the game? When asked about the great ones wooden twig he’s like I don’t know how he could use that thing. lol, it’s like me looking at my grandfathers persimmon wood golf clubs.

Sorry off topic…..go Demidov go

 

[417]

Montreal’s already screwed over a handful of young players during my lifetime. Management always says this time is different. And next thing you know kid is downtown every night getting into trouble.
THEY.CANT.f***.UP.DEMIDOV!!!

I think this could be an idea.



For English speakers: Demidov will be Montreal’s Russian teenage superstar. Can the Habs do a building for the team’s kids or floor at the Bell center for the kids (me: Demidov, Hutson, Slaf)
They further add that Washington had Ovy’s mother in town.
(Me: I heard through the grapevine that kids in Pittsburgh had at some point a building where they had parties. They were supervised. And I never heard the slightest hint of trouble from them)

Me= When Lafleur was f***ing up on Crescent street, or Chelios was being stalked by Pat Burns, it was kept on the down low. With social media, it’s impossible.

This is a terrible idea.

They're professional athletes, they don't need a daytime day care / night time party pad.

This is their job.

 

[LaP]

It's on topic since we're discussing the meaning of the generational label and what a generation is and represents.

I dont want to get technical and invoke the boring forum etiquette mumbo-jumbo that nobody cares about, but that discussion is officially legit because it is directly related to the fact that Demidov is the best hockey player in the history of humanity. I request full immunity.

There should not be any discussion about what it is. It's so popular in 2025 to redefine words this is crazy. It's like kids these days they want to change the meaning of everything.

Generational refer to a generation. So a generational player must be a player that define a generation. There can be more than one in a generation (Gretzky, Lemieux). But there can not be none in a generation. Obviously a 1920 generational player is not as good as today's player but that's the product of better training, better ice, better equipment, being able to not have a secondary job, better junior coaches, better knowledge of the game, better diet, working class having mroe money, not having to work at 12, ....

 

[Kennerback]

This is a terrible idea.

They're professional athletes, they don't need a daytime day care / night time party pad.

This is their job.

I disagree. It worked for some. I couldn’t handle that level stardom. Montreal is a party town. Since the late 80s, I’ve seen a handful of Habs out on the town with my own eyes on a slippery slope. For example, I was with a group. Once, one guy in our group was drunk and was a Bruins fan, and he was hurling insults to Keane and Muller outside an establishment. We had to physically remove him so things don’t get out of hand. I also have others stories I can’t tell. If your not a public figure this doesn’t happen to you, Good luck, Ivan.:]

 

[Sasha Orlov]

sets KHL U20 all time pts record
main boards: “many players have put up similar numbers”

What is wrong with people on this website

 

[LaP]

Lockdown era,means nothing, shane wright had special status like mcdavid and is a nothing burger in the nhl.

Wright junior numbers are not anywhere close to Bedard. Like it's not close at all.

 

[Riggins]

Can bombshell stick to ridiculous Mesar posts and not bring them to the Demi-verse?

 

[417]

I disagree. It worked for some. I couldn’t handle that level stardom. Montreal is a party town. Since the late 80s, I’ve seen a handful of Habs out on the town with my own eyes on a slippery slope. For example, I was with a group. Once, one guy in our group was drunk and was a Bruins fan, and he was hurling insults to Keane and Muller outside an establishment. We had to physically remove him so things don’t get out of hand. I also have others stories I can’t tell. If your not a public figure this doesn’t happen to you, Good luck, Ivan.:]

Yeah I've got stories too, seen a bunch of professional athletes...they're regular people too and they go out and have fun and drink and party, etc.

But building an establishment to house young players where they can all live together is not a fix to them not having lives outside of hockey.

Like honestly, take a second to think about whether this REALLY makes sense lol...it doesn't.

 

[Kennerback]

sets KHL U20 all time pts record
main boards: “many players have put up similar numbers”

What is wrong with this website

All I’ve learned from the main board is the Demidov and Hutson are doing nothing special but Cooley is setting the NHL on fire.