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Blue Jays Discussion: It's still the off-season (Ray: Cy Young, Berrios: 7yr ext, Semien: to TEX, Gausman: signs 5y/$110m)

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If you exclude Ray, last year the Jays first MLB signing was Kirby Yates. They next day they signed Chatwood. The next day they trade Hector Perez. And the next day they signed Springer.

Hopefully history repeats itself. Except with better players.
 
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phillipmike said:
If you exclude Ray, last year the Jays first MLB signing was Kirby Yates. They next day they signed Chatwood. The next day they trade Hector Perez. And the next day they signed Springer.

Hopefully history repeats itself. Except with better players.
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Signing Chatwood was the biggest flop ever. Him and Brad Hand cost the Jays a playoff spot
 
Starry Knight said:
Can we really complain about the Rays' voodoo magic when we have Pete Walker turning 6.6 ERA pitchers into Cy Young winners?
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Yes because the Rays can do it with position players too.

Like nemesis said, they have some weird occult shrine or something in the back of the Trop that enables this. It's the only explanation
 
phillipmike said:
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Morosi is all over the place lol. Pretty evident he doesn't have any new info, just trying to make it feel like it with these super general tweet. Yesterday he said Toronto was a finalist for him. Today he says SF has a good chance at re-signing him. Tomorrow he'll say the Mariners are making a push to get him signed. And he'll end up signing with the Mets
 
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Starry Knight said:
Can we really complain about the Rays' voodoo magic when we have Pete Walker turning 6.6 ERA pitchers into Cy Young winners?
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Is he really? He hasn't done much good for Kay, Pearson, Thornton, or the many other young pitchers who can't seem to get it together.

phillipmike said:
Hopefully history repeats itself. Except with better players.
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I was about to say...ultimately the bad relief pitching had a larger impact on the outcome of the season than Springer did.
 
TGB said:
Is he really? He hasn't done much good for Kay, Pearson, Thornton, or the many other young pitchers who can't seem to get it together.



I was about to say...ultimately the bad relief pitching had a larger impact on the outcome of the season than Springer did.
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I mean talent does matter. If you don't have the talent the adjustments won't matter no matter how great the coaching is. Kay,Pearson and Thornton are also a weird grouping as all 3 are at extremely different stages of their careers and not at all similar pitchers...at all.
 
TheBeastCoast said:
I mean talent does matter. If you don't have the talent the adjustments won't matter no matter how great the coaching is. Kay,Pearson and Thornton are also a weird grouping as all 3 are at extremely different stages of their careers and not at all similar pitchers...at all.
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Excuses. If the pitcher has all the talent in the first place, then why is Walker getting so much credit? Wouldn't a truly great coach make ALL of the pitchers better and not just the All Star pitchers going through a rough stretch? You even have an example from this page, comically labeled as "Rays voodoo magic BS".

Has Walker had a few good success stories? Sure. Are we the Rays, a truly great pitcher development team? Hell no.
 
TGB said:
Sounds like excuses to me. If the pitcher has all the talent in the first place, then why is Walker getting so much credit? Wouldn't a truly great coach make ALL of the pitchers better and not just the All Star pitchers going through a rough stretch? You even have an example in this thread, comically labeled as "Rays voodoo magic BS".

Has Walker had a few good success stories? Sure. Are we the Rays, a truly great pitcher development team? Hell no.
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No you have a ridiculous bar for what a good coach is if you expect a coach to be able to literally turn any player they touch into a good/great player. The Rays success in pitcher development also isn't a one coach thing, that is organizationally targeting a certain profile of pitchers over a number of years and implementing the development of them of them up and down the organization. That takes years...and guess what? Some pitchers with the Rays are bad. Guess they suck too based off your dumb classification of a coach needing to have a 100% success rate or they aren't that good, which is honestly just hilarious.
 
Blitzkrug said:
They're really gonna let Ray walk in favor of Gausman? Gross.

Sources are saying it breaks down like this; Gausman prefers to stay on the west coast (which is why Seattle is apparently one of the favorites to land him), but the Mets have the most money on the table. Toronto factors in...somewhere given all the insiders are saying they're in on him.

Idk man, Gausman with only 2 good pitches against those AL East teams all year? I think i'd rather Ray since he's already shown he can be successful.
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Both guys have only 2 pitches. I would be shocked if either of them can come close to replicating their 2021 seasons.

I would prefer to keep Semien over Ray, but only if we can add a decent starter elsewhere
 
I really want Ray back. I don't think he'll repeat his 2021 season again (particularly the sub-3 ERA), but he doesn't have to. Obviously the money and years matter, but I expect whoever gets him will get multiple 3+ WAR seasons out of him.
 
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