Confirmed with Link: It's Started! (Management firings)

[Jobeycool]

Not sure I agree of firing Burke, but whatever... Sullivan will get fired next year at some point when they realize his ways are no longer working..

 

[dueling mullets]

Most of those coaches had not won 2 straight Cups…
having said, IMO Sully has lost their ear since about 18-19…

I agree. But also, most coaches usually don't have their #1 and #2 centers being one of the best ever at any position and in the conversation for best #2 center ever, with the luxury of putting a 30 goal scorer on the third line. Sure the roster isn't a stanley cup contender right now, but it's not like he turned water into wine in 16-17.

 

[PensandCaps]

Absolutely zero interest in Jason Botterill.

Not because I think he's an idiot or a bad gm. I just don't want someone coming in with any familiarity with this roster or coach. I want someone who is far enough removed from it to make actual analytical decisions and not emotional ones.

Hextall and Burke should have been that but they totally bombed and clearly had no interest in using analytics based on the players they brought in.

He is an upgrade but a very mediocre one.

 

[Joejosh999]

Man getting a GM that will mix some analytics with the eye test will be perfect. We don't need some old school dude who uses the force...

Contract vs. Age vs. Analytics == Contracts like Carter and Granlund would have never been offered/taken.

New GM could be crap but at least we are trying.

Realistically, I think any GM when being interviewed will "ask about firing Sullivan" and if the Management group says no then I don't think we'll get the good GM's people have been posting.

We'll know a lot more in the next few weeks... good first step.

Yep.
Even an analytics beginner would never have touched Carter or Granlund. Argh…

I agree. But also, most coaches usually don't have their #1 and #2 centers being one of the best ever at any position and in the conversation for best #2 center ever, with the luxury of putting a 30 goal scorer on the third line. Sure the roster isn't a stanley cup contender right now, but it's not like he turned water into wine in 16-17.

That‘s true. Re water and wine, that was Kessel lol! Still miss that hot dog guy!…

 

[Empoleon8771]

The Carter extension was horrible, but let's not re-write what he did when he first got here. Carter had 28 goals and 56 points in 90 games in his first 2 years with the Penguins and was super productive (8 goals and 10 points in 13 games) in the playoffs. The mistake was giving him 2 years with a NMC, not re-signing him.

He should have just gotten a 1 year deal that would keep being 1 year deals as long as he performed. If he wouldn't sign a 1 year deal or if he started playing poorly, you just let him walk.

 

[ZorkEnchanter]

He is an upgrade but a very mediocre one.

Yeah, big nope.

I would love a Dubas type- we need someone to come in and evaluate (like other Posters have said) the entire ORG and make changes.

We also need some cap saavy management to jettison contracts and try to bring in good players.

We also need a GM who can see what happened with Kap/Math/Gads, etc. and potentially start pointing the finger at our f***ing coach.

 

[Josey Wales]

As an aside, I find it fascinating that fans jump between "Hextall ruined this terrific team with his horrible moves" and "Sullivan hasn't had the pieces he needs to have success". Especially because the 2 playoff series with Hextall were substantially more competitive than the last 2 playoff series with JR.

This "great team" that Hextall ruined lost in the qualifying round to Montreal and got swept by the Islanders in the two previous years. But apparently that wasn't Sullivan's fault, he just needs a better team around him!

Well There you go using Common Sense & Reality

 

[Joejosh999]

Well if Kyle Dubas is the NHL Billy Bean they say he is, this club would certainly be a test of his fantabulous abilities….

 

[Jobeycool]

You cannot trust new age people or people who never really watched Crosby, Letang and Malkin play together. This new group of hockey ops and GMs might to an entire fire sale, with how stupid things are going with this team.

 

[dueling mullets]

Yep.
Even an analytics beginner would never have touched Carter or Granlund. Argh…


That‘s true. Re water and wine, that was Kessel lol! Still miss that hot dog guy!…

Ironically, they subsequently had a guy in his early 20's on the third line who now at 26 scored more goals in a season than Kessel ever did. But said young and developing player was given a short leash, which seems to be a theme if you do a deep dive on player usage in the 5 years the Pens haven't won a playoff series.

 

[Josey Wales]

Yohe: Ron Hextall, in the end, didn't have the backbone for the Penguins' GM job Josh BLOW

 

[Pancakes]

The Carter extension was horrible, but let's not re-write what he did when he first got here. Carter had 25 goals and 56 points in 90 games in his first 2 years with the Penguins and was super productive (8 goals and 10 points in 13 games) in the playoffs. The mistake was giving him 2 years with a NMC, not re-signing him.

He should have just gotten a 1 year deal that would keep being 1 year deals as long as he performed. If he wouldn't sign a 1 year deal or if he started playing poorly, you just let him walk.

I'm more upset over Hextall's decisions this year than anything prior. His trade deadline this year was nothing short of disastrous, and nobody is using any hindsight to say that. We all knew what an awful idea Granlund was.

Yohe: Ron Hextall, in the end, didn't have the backbone for the Penguins' GM job Josh BLOW

I read the article and I don't think Yohe is actually wrong with any of what he wrote there.

It is funny coming from him though the ultimate Mike Sullivan worshipper. And of course there was nothing in there pointing any blame at Sully.

 

[Josey Wales]

Rob Rossi
@Real_RobRossi
·
39m
There’s A LOT of people speaking about new GM candidates.
Amusing to me.
These people aren’t getting info from FSG, so how useful is it?

Speculation is just that — speculation.

Carry on… What a PUTZ

 

[Empoleon8771]

I'm more upset over Hextall's decisions this year than anything prior. His trade deadline this year was nothing short of disastrous, and nobody is using any hindsight to say that. We all knew what an awful idea Granlund was.

Yeah I think the wheels fell off with Hextall after the end of last season. His performance as GM in his first 2 years was good overall. Things went to shit this off-season, though.

 

[eXile3]

The Carter extension was horrible, but let's not re-write what he did when he first got here. Carter had 25 goals and 56 points in 90 games in his first 2 years with the Penguins and was super productive (8 goals and 10 points in 13 games) in the playoffs. The mistake was giving him 2 years with a NMC, not re-signing him.

He should have just gotten a 1 year deal that would keep being 1 year deals as long as he performed. If he wouldn't sign a 1 year deal or if he started playing poorly, you just let him walk.

He was shooting at like a 25%. It was easy to see that was substantial. You don’t need an analytics department to see that was an outlier.

 

[Josey Wales]

He was shooting at like a 25%. It was easy to see that was substantial. You don’t need an analytics department to see that was an outlier.

I think Hextall signed him to 2 year deal because he had no faith in Blueger or anyone in system, Now you can argue he shouldn't have signed him to it. But that is my thought on why

 

[dueling mullets]

He was shooting at like a 25%. It was easy to see that was substantial. You don’t need an analytics department to see that was an outlier.

So obvious it begs the question whether a 60 year old former NHL player even understands basic math enough to make that connection.

 

[Empoleon8771]

He was shooting at like a 25%. It was easy to see that was substantial. You don’t need an analytics department to see that was an outlier.

No he wasn't. In his first 2 years with the Penguins, he shot 11.8% (28 goals on 237 shots) which is completely in line with his career average.

There wasn't a justification to not re-signing Carter last off-season. However, it should have been a 1 year deal where you pull the plug on it as soon as his play falls off. His analytics weren't great but his production (both regular season and playoffs) and his faceoff abilities were well worth keeping around.

 

[Pancakes]

Yeah I think the wheels fell off with Hextall after the end of last season. His performance as GM in his first 2 years was good overall. Things went to shit this off-season, though.

Some of his moves (Carter, Mccann) look horrendous in retrospect, but like I said, this year was the big one for me where it was obvious he f***ed up.

At least you could defend signing Carter or letting Mccann go at the time. Many of us did.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Almost every post of theirs is accompanied with a personal insult.

Ignore is your friend.

Is that who everyone is responding to? I keep seeing people responding to someone, but never see who they're responding to or what post.

 

[ZorkEnchanter]

He was shooting at like a 25%. It was easy to see that was substantial. You don’t need an analytics department to see that was an outlier.

The contract was horrible... the reason I said contract + age + analytics (and you can include eye test) is:

Analytics would look at all the contracts of like players at that age, etc.

Carter should have got a 1 year contract.
I think almost all NHL players around the league at that age get 1 year contracts.
Almost all of them make < 1 million and those premium ones that are over that use performance bonus to account for falling off the cliff.

Carter was an old player who got a favor contract from a buddy GM. It was a bad contract.

 

[K Fleur]

The only add Hextall ever made that improved the team was Rakell.

Every other move turned out to be something from meh to ass.

 

[Zero Pucks]

The Carter extension was horrible, but let's not re-write what he did when he first got here. Carter had 25 goals and 56 points in 90 games in his first 2 years with the Penguins and was super productive (8 goals and 10 points in 13 games) in the playoffs. The mistake was giving him 2 years with a NMC, not re-signing him.

He should have just gotten a 1 year deal that would keep being 1 year deals as long as he performed. If he wouldn't sign a 1 year deal or if he started playing poorly, you just let him walk.

Yeah. Carter was good when he first got here. The resigning was the disaster. Anyone with half a brain could have seen his game was fall off a cliff sooner than later.

 

[K Fleur]

Man moving Marino and Matheson to make room for Petry really panned out awesome.

 

[Josey Wales]

Placed on waivers:
Nic Petan #mnwild
Christian Wolanin #Canucks
Kiefer Sherwood #Smashville
Michael McCarron #Smashville
Mark Jankowski #Smashville