Post-Game Talk: ITS OVER- Did we make a huge mistake on Pierre-Luc Dubois Thread?

[KevSkillz4]

Every reasons are very good to acquire Pierre-Luc Dubois right now. Habs have already great prospect pool, adding that high pick we have, no reasons I don't see Hughes put a good offer, 1st pick FLA, a prospect and a NHL player.

After this season, Habs need to focus on win. They will make the playoffs? Maybe not... but they need to focus to win games, the rebuild is almost over and with adding a player like Dubois right now... I think people don't know that next year, this team will be much more better than this season. Dubois, Suzuki, Caufield, Dach, Slafkovsky... that's a lot of talent on forward right there.

 

[MXD]

I've said qui

There are also views on the player's overall game some see him one way some don't. If I'm being frank I can't say Dubois impressed during the playoffs when we went head to head. It was actually a pathetic showing. His reg. season stats against us are okay but he was always on the stronger team and in many cases it wasn't even close. The important games for me were his most recent post season performances. Hopefully his team can make the show and he can redeem himself. But you are absolutely right the argument will still come down to how much how long and at what cost.

From what I gathered, he had ... something then. He wasn't fully healthy. I do remember him being totally useless. Though he was generally underwhelming as a Jet on his first season too.

Or then again maybe he just couldn't care player for the Jets against the Habs.

 

[BLONG7]

Every reasons are very good to acquire Pierre-Luc Dubois right now. Habs have already great prospect pool, adding that high pick we have, no reasons I don't see Hughes put a good offer, 1st pick FLA, a prospect and a NHL player.

After this season, Habs need to focus on win. They will make the playoffs? Maybe not... but they need to focus to win games, the rebuild is almost over and with adding a player like Dubois right now... I think people don't know that next year, this team will be much more better than this season. Dubois, Suzuki, Caufield, Dach, Slafkovsky... that's a lot of talent on forward right there.

Goaltending .............is still a major issue.
Thinking we are 2 years away from being a good team

 

[BLONG7]

There are also views on the player's overall game some see him one way some don't. If I'm being frank I can't say Dubois impressed during the playoffs when we went head to head. It was actually a pathetic showing. His reg. season stats against us are okay but he was always on the stronger team and in many cases it wasn't even close. The important games for me were his most recent post season performances. Hopefully his team can make the show and he can redeem himself. But you are absolutely right the argument will still come down to how much how long and at what cost.

Right now, he seems to be a good regular season guy, and only a good showing in the playoffs this year, can change that narrative.

When we went head to head, the entire Jets team were beyond awful, losing to the habs in 4 was one of the most strange things that we all have ever seen.
8 days was all it took and we were off to Vegas. PLD was one of many who forgot to show up.

Curious to see if he can being it this playoff season, if they get in....

 

[Jaynki]

Goaltending .............is still a major issue.
Thinking we are 2 years away from being a good team

Fans here want to acquire Carter Hart (lol) but when compared on an equal field. (xGA).

Montembeault is a number one goalie and slightly better than Hart. He ranks about 10-13 in the league. Hart ranks in the same spot actually.

He needs to show consistency but i think he can be part of the solution moving forward.

Problem is top 7-10 goaltender are untouchables and the rest is abundant and always available every year in bunch. Monty is a leader in the pack of the abundant goaltender.

 

[Guy Larose]

Tatar was the roster ready player cap dump or no.

It wasn't his target as you're making it out to be. He wanted to trade Max for a young player and Tatar was the salary to make it happen. Not at all what you're implying.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

Goaltending .............is still a major issue.
Thinking we are 2 years away from being a good team

I don't think the goaltending alone is such an issue. I see more the complete defensive system as a problem. We have too much one way players who just sucks at applying a defensive system. I think actual Habs are among the 5 worst nhl teams in defense. It's not the D, it's not the goalies. When the Habs will have something like a good defensive overall system, we can judge about our goalies. All our lines and all our players are in the minus stats.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Once again, you are talking about GM vision flaws and overlooking that they still accumulated valuable rebuilding pieces. What would be left behind if he was fired in 2017? Poehling, Brook, Fleury, Primeau, Mete, Juulsen, Scherbak?

Habs made a change with their drafting and scouting in the 2018+ drafts. Yeah, Bergevin still tried to sign guys and be a middle of the pack team but that does not mean the rebuild didn't start before Gorton/Hughes because their drafting from 2018+ has been much better.

As I said before, this smells like Bergevin/Timmins hate and it clouds your judgement.

It makes no sense to call a period where we drafted one first rounder per year, no more and no less, as a rebuilding period.

You have three approches:
win-now: trade picks and prospects for immediate help, extend vets beyond best-before date
normal: neither trade nor overly amass picks and prospects
rebuild: sell aging assets for extra picks and prospects

Bergevin in September 2018 made one rebuilding move, Pacioretty for Suzuki and Tatar, and thereafter a few win-now moves such as extending Byron, Armia, Gallagher, and bringing in Hoffman.

The draft picks were normal mode. It's nice that a few are good, but every team drafts good players with their annual allotment. It's not a sign of rebuilding.

Nor do I have an irrational hate of Bergevin. I acknowlege his good moves such as drafting Caufield and Guhle at ranks later than their real value. Same with Farrell, Dobes, Roy and RHP. But if we do that, we also have to recognize the many first rounders that made no impact. Overall his drafting was not above average. His trade record WAS above average. But his inability to offset the declining value of aging assets and his poor cap management led us to the point of having the worst team in the league and the highest payroll in the league at the same time (Fall 2021).

 

[ReHabs]

I just cannot wrap my mind around paying FLA 1st round pick plus plus as some people here are suggesting.

Hellll noooooooooo

A lower first round pick is a small price to pay to acquire and secure the services of a 60-70pt 6’4” player. The Habs paid quite a bit more for Kirby Dach who had a career high of under 30pts at the time of trade — and it worked out to almost everybody’s satisfaction already.

 

[BaseballCoach]

I don't think the goaltending alone is such an issue. I see more the complete defensive system as a problem. We have too much one way players who just sucks at applying a defensive system. I think actual Habs are among the 5 worst nhl teams in defense. It's not the D, it's not the goalies. When the Habs will have something like a good defensive overall system, we can judge about our goalies. All our lines and all our players are in the minus stats.

Part of the problem is playing wingers on their wrong wing.

 

[The Great Weal]

"We have a trade to announce. Montreal Canadiens trade the 5th overall pick..."

*HFHabs losing their minds thinking we traded the pick for PLD*

"To the Arizona Coyotes in exchange for Clayton Keller"

*Smart asses on HFHabs still mad because Keller is small*

 

[Rapala]

It wasn't his target as you're making it out to be. He wanted to trade Max for a young player and Tatar was the salary to make it happen. Not at all what you're implying.

You still don't get it. No matter where MB ended making the Patch deal he needed that roster ready player because he was in a go for it now posture not a rebuilding one. Suzuki was a prospect at that point hadn't even had his breakout year yet. The package was never meant to be part of a rebuild. Fast forward to when Suzuki joined the team he ended up displacing a couple of players in his climb up the ladder was he looked at as part of a rebuild? When he went on his run in the post season was he looked at as part of a rebuild. Of course he wasn't he was looked at as a main cog in Bergevins win now approach. The fact that the team went into the shitter the following year can in no way change that history. Look at the package and not the individual pieces and try to convince me Suzuki was a rebuilding block because that was not even close to what he was.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

Part of the problem is playing wingers on their wrong wing.

Yes partly but it's more than that.

 

[Trabdy2]

I've been a bit skeptical of making a trade for Dubois as I might not be as high on him as many others on here, but after watching the last half of this season I'm starting to feel more convinced it's a good move to make as long as the price is reasonable and we are able to sign him to an extension.

I think we need to add a player with his combo of skill and size to give our young players (of which, many are small) a place where they can find a role and continue to build their game. We don't have enough of those players right now up front, and guys like Hoffman and Armia aren't going to cut it.

I'm thinking that if Winnipeg doesn't make the playoffs, it's more likely we'll be able to acquire him.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

Right now, he seems to be a good regular season guy, and only a good showing in the playoffs this year, can change that narrative.

When we went head to head, the entire Jets team were beyond awful, losing to the habs in 4 was one of the most strange things that we all have ever seen.
8 days was all it took and we were off to Vegas. PLD was one of many who forgot to show up.

Curious to see if he can being it this playoff season, if they get in....

Jets had the shock of losing Scheifele for the last 3 games. Collectivly they were done, it got in their mind, PLD included.

Leafs had that kind of problem but it was Tavares. In the case of Leafs it was more what happened on the ice without Tavares. Schei would have helped jets if he was there for sure but Jets were a lower team overall than Leafs, even without Tavares. Habs were pumped with that win over TO, they had some momentum.

 

[The Great Weal]

I would love to include Armia in this deal but that probably isn't happening. Next best option is Hoffman and if they still won't take him, we need to retain 50%. We got too many wingers as is and don't have the room for Gurianov (unless we trade Anderson).

PLD-Suzuki-CC
Slaf-Dach-Anderson
RHP-Dvorak-Gallagher
Ylonen-Evans-Armia/Hoffman
Pezzetta/Belzile

In this case, I am wondering if they entertain the thought of sending Slaf down to play with guys like Pitlick, Farell, Heineman, Roy and Richard. I think Belzile will get picked up by another team through waivers if he's not with the big club.

 

[Colezuki]

I would love to include Armia in this deal but that probably isn't happening. Next best option is Hoffman and if they still won't take him, we need to retain 50%. We got too many wingers as is and don't have the room for Gurianov (unless we trade Anderson).

PLD-Suzuki-CC
Slaf-Dach-Anderson
RHP-Dvorak-Gallagher
Ylonen-Evans-Armia/Hoffman
Pezzetta/Belzile

In this case, I am wondering if they entertain the thought of sending Slaf down to play with guys like Pitlick, Farell, Heineman, Roy and Richard. I think Belzile will get picked up by another team through waivers if he's not with the big club.

Armia is a no go, jets let him go if you remember as a cap dump payoff with Steve Mason

 

[The Great Weal]

Armia is a no go, jets let him go if you remember as a cap dump payoff with Steve Mason

Yes but I'm assuming Jets are going to blow it up if they miss the playoffs and need placeholders. Armia has a better chance bouncing back there instead of here.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

Armia is a no go, jets let him go if you remember as a cap dump payoff with Steve Mason

Armia have zero value. He's a desperate case, no team would want him.

Yes but I'm assuming Jets are going to blow it up if they miss the playoffs and need placeholders. Armia has a better chance bouncing back there instead of here.

If I as Jets GM, I would like Dvorak better as a consolation price and + a pick or prospect player.

 

[habsfan44]

Nope, not wrong. You're getting caught in a knot on your Bergevin/Timmins dislike. I have the ability to look at the youth buildup they acquired from 2018+ and also look at their mistakes at the same time.

Our rebuild started before Gorton/Hughes was hired. Lots of core pieces that will be on this team for years.



Same here. Imagine having skilled forwards but no physical Dubois to mix in with them? Great plan. . We can easily acquire a Dubois type later on eh?

Because there are prospects left over from the Bergevin regime that will be absorbed into the rebuild started by GMKH does not mean that Bergevin gets credit for starting the current rebuild and stating that it extends all the way back to 2018 is a bizarre and absurd notion , not to mention ridiculous .

 

[Rapala]

We get to have a first hand look at PLD in what is described as a game 7 atmosphere this evening.

 

[Colezuki]

We get to have a first hand look at PLD in what is described as a game 7 atmosphere this evening.

Currently stuck at home will see him live I guess

 

[The Great Weal]

If I as Jets GM, I would like Dvorak better as a consolation price and + a pick or prospect player.

I wouldn't be terribly upset trading away Dvorak+FLA 1st for PLD, but ideally, we include another pick/prospect for them to take on Hoffman at 50% at the very least. Unless we sign a center that can play on the 3rd line for cheap, we need a 3C.

 

[waitin425]

 

[BaseballCoach]

You still don't get it. No matter where MB ended making the Patch deal he needed that roster ready player because he was in a go for it now posture not a rebuilding one. Suzuki was a prospect at that point hadn't even had his breakout year yet. The package was never meant to be part of a rebuild. Fast forward to when Suzuki joined the team he ended up displacing a couple of players in his climb up the ladder was he looked at as part of a rebuild? When he went on his run in the post season was he looked at as part of a rebuild. Of course he wasn't he was looked at as a main cog in Bergevins win now approach. The fact that the team went into the shitter the following year can in no way change that history. Look at the package and not the individual pieces and try to convince me Suzuki was a rebuilding block because that was not even close to what he was.

As I said the Suzuki trade helped the rebuild, but MB made many other moves showing that a rebuild was not his plan in 2018, nor 2019, 2020 and 2021.