Post-Game Talk: ITS OVER- Did we make a huge mistake on Pierre-Luc Dubois Thread?

[FerrisRox]

For centres, Suzuki is tied for 36th with Joel Eriksson-Ek and Vincent Trochek.

PLD is listed as a left winger for some f***ing reason, but he's taken all.ost 1,000 faceoffs.

At 60 points, 1 behind Suzuki in 8 less games, PLD is tied with Zegras and Hertl, who've play 4 (Hertl) and 7( Zegras) more games than him.

Top be in the top 32, you been 63 points.

If Caufield hadn't suffered a season-ending injury Suzuki's numbers would certainly be inflated.

 

[McPhees Moustache]

Actually, it's the opposite. It would eliminate defensemen ahead of Dubois in scoring, raising it more easily to 8M a year.


You have zero interest in Dubois, regardless. I've read your posts. Stay honest and younhave the right to your opinion. Spew BS and you don't.

Nobody is forcing you to want Dubois, only deconstructing any lame reasons why.

40th place in forward scoring currently has 71pts while 40th highest salary among forwards is currently 7M/year

 

[FerrisRox]

I'm so glad I didn't miss this post. Perfect Habs Fan commentary.

You're very welcome. Enjoy.

 

[FerrisRox]

You have zero interest in Dubois, regardless. I've read your posts. Stay honest and younhave the right to your opinion. Spew BS and you don't.

Nobody is forcing you to want Dubois, only deconstructing any lame reasons why.

Actually, I am keenly interested in Dubois.

If the Canadiens can sign him as an unrestricted free agent and the number doesn't go higher than $8.5 season I think he would be an outstanding addition.

What I don't have interest in - and I think I've been pretty clear - is trading for a player that reportedly wants to come here and will be only one year away from free agency after this season.

I haven't made a single "lame reason" for not wanting him. Saying I don't see him as a "power forward" has nothing to do with wanting him or not. I would love to see him play for Montreal. I love his game. I just don't think describing him as a power forward is accurate.

What is the "BS" you think I am spewing?

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

If Caufield hadn't suffered a season-ending injury Suzuki's numbers would certainly be inflated.

This too.




Full season of Caufield and a better pp, Suzuki gets 70+ points.

I know I'm being conservatively optimistic, but if you have 2 70 point centres you're doing well.

Habs can be competitive with a game breaker. In my opinion Caufield's shot is game breaking in that if he gets a low percentage chance for most, for him it's a good chance to score..

Habs get Benson, Michkov, or maybe, but unlikely Bedard, that could be a foundation for a good team.

Let's not forget that Los Angel's didn't have a game breaking forward. They had a team that just made the playoffs, but was built for it with size, being sound defensively and a stable goalie.

Chicago won with Toews, who's a really good centre, but isn't a 90+ point centre.

Habs are setting themselves up to be a good team with size and depth, so taking on Benson isn't a bad idea, especially if they get PLD at some point.

If Slaf can figure it out, even if he's a 25-30 goal scorer with size and speed that will be amazing for the depth of the team.

Habs, draft a few players with size this draft and next and they make it, even as 3rd, or 4th liners would be great, too. Habs need to find some of those hidden gems that have size and skill that comes out and is on fully showing a few years after the draft.

 

[ZUKI]

I really bristle when I hear him described as a "power forward."

There really isn't a lot of physicality in his game. He uses his size to his advantage, no question, but he doesn't play a bruising game where he imposes his will like a classic "Power Forward." His game isn't going to wear down the opposition as they try to deal with his physicality. That's not what he does out there.

I think there are people in this thread that are really setting up a lot of people here that maybe don't know Dubois game very well for a disappointment.

Then can you provide us the names of who are the players you can tag as "power forward " ?
Dubois plays in front of the net, in the corners and uses his physical attributs to do so.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

Then can you provide us the names of who are the players you can tag as "power forward " ?
Dubois plays in front of the net, in the corners and uses his physical attributs to do so.

His definition of a power forward are Todd Bertuzzi and Milan Lucic. It stops there.

 

[Omar]

Trade for him this season at a 1st + 3rd value. I have no issue trading Florida’s 1st for him. At least you can sign him for an RFA year. I’m concerned being too heavy at forward with big contracts - Suzuki, Caufield, Dach and Dubois - not leaving enough salary for the rest of the team. Signing him as a UFA for 8m+ next year will create bad balance.

 

[Scriptor]

Looks like the FLA pick will be less of a loss after they passed both PIT, CAL and NYIs with a win tonight. It'll be down to the wire to see if FLA stays in the playoff picture, butbthey seem to be streaking. Thankfully, so id CAL. Need the Isles to step up and block the Panthers too.

 

[Zxlime]

I wasn't a fan of the "trade for him now" option, but I could get behind the idea if Dvorak is part of the package.

We'll need the cap space, and the Jets will need a Centerman to replace PLD. Maybe FLA's 1st and Dvorak and a lower D prospect gets it done.

In a perfect world, i'd want him signed below Suzuki's 7.875M$ caphit. I'm still not sold on PLD's grit/commitment to win and i don't want him to earn more than our captain.

 

[SnapVirus]

I wasnt down to trade a lottery pick for PLD but if Panther’s first is a 20th+\- something OV. Trade that shit for Dubois

 

[Rapala]

His definition of a power forward are Todd Bertuzzi and Milan Lucic. It stops there.

Are you two having fun amongst yourselves because your mockery is as misguided as it is in poor taste.
There is a power forward next door to us in Ottawa; Who has a brother in Florida; Who plays with a certain player named Barkov; Who are all examples of power forwards and I don't know too many people who would have the audacity to try and compare PLD's game to theirs.

 

[BaseballCoach]

You guys are nit picking because you dislike Bergevin/Timmins. It's very clear. The main point is our rebuild started earlier than when Gorton/Hughes were hired. There are several key young pieces they already have in place and their rebuild version has better long term vision.

Bergevin inherited Price, Subban, Patch, Gallagher, 3rd OA pick. He could have sold guys like Markov and Pleky but he didn't.

Gorton/Hughes inherited Suzuki, Caufield, Guhle, Romanov, Xhekaj, Roy, Farrell, Harris, etc. He sold Toffoli, Chiarot, Lehkonen and might sell some more.

You guys are talking about the better rebuild strategy but you're being stubborn that Gorton/Hughes already had several rebuilding pieces in place.

Suzuki was a rebuild piece, but overshadowed by extending Gallagher, Armia and Byron, losing Tatar, signing Hoffman for term, and literally watching the value of Weber and Price plummet to zero.

The "other rebuild" pieces were totally normal. MB did get more firsts than he was alloted. than for Dvorak who was just 25 at the time so acceptable inprinciple, though overpaid in reality.

Of course if a guy is in place for a decade, he will leave behind guys in their D+x years. Big effing deal.

 

[Rapala]

The thing is Suzuki was never acquired as a rebuilding block. He was part of a package obtained for Patch who was clearly done as a Hab and it was Tatar MB wanted in his quest for the legendary realm of anything can happen. Suzuki became support for that vision he became a rebuilding piece after the team was run into the ground and HuGo took over. The fortunate thing for us is we could be trying to do this with Cody Glass. But I'm not sure of two things.

1) Why are people still trying to credit our previous GM for things he fell into?
2) What is it doing in an all encompassing PLD thread.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

As much as I’d love to wait and get him for free, the old adage is that a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

Maybe the “value” we get for trading now instead of waiting is with PLDs AAV? He obviously wants out of Winnipeg bad, so if he’s willing to sign a team friendly extension I’d be more than happy to send over the Florida pick for him (assuming it’s late teens or 20s).

 

[Scriptor]

Are you two having fun amongst yourselves because your mockery is as misguided as it is in poor taste.
There is a power forward next door to us in Ottawa; Who has a brother in Florida; Who plays with a certain player named Barkov; Who are all examples of power forwards and I don't know too many people who would have the audacity to try and compare PLD's game to theirs.

If you're strictly arguing a personal definition of a power forward, what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Yes, Tkachuk is a power forward, because hen gets under your skin and plays an in your face role? Then, so is Marchand, but is he really?

Dismissing PLD as not being a power forward when one of his strengths is attracting double coverage, still holding onto the puck, despite that, locating a free line mate because of the double coverage and dishing the puck to them for a scoring opportunity -- over and over again...

Whatever...

No PLD isn't desperately trying to hit everyone he can at all times. Doesn't make him less of a power forward if he can keep puck possession in traffic and make plays there, play in the crease for tip ins and to take rebounds, etc.

PLD is a C that looks to make plays rather than take himself out of the play for a body check. He does, however, hold his ground in the crease.

Anderson, when he's lit up, actually hits more than PLD and plays as a power forward, but isn't as productive, offensively, as PLD, while doing as much. Anderson also can't hold off an opponent with the puck on his stick while the opponent tries to pry the puck loose, unless he's muscling past an opponent as he uses his speed to cut in front of him. Yet PLD does and makes plays out of that.

Come playoff time, this is valuable, IMO. Actually, it's as valuable in the regular season, but the advantage it can confer come playoff time is crucial.

PLD is not a one-man hockey team. but he brings a heavy game on the puck and that is always important when trying to create scoring opportunities.

At this point, everyone and anyone can poo-poo Dubois all they want. I'm not convinced they know what they are talking about when they do as much.

I think there's a lot of refusal to step back from an initial stance about Dubois and a lot of doubling down on initial takes, regardless of the evidence to that stance not being entirely correct.

On them Internets, people, for some reason, need to be right and can no longer put any nuance into their positions on issues. It's often disconcerting and definitely less pleasant as conversation.

I'm starting to think fans shouldn't see Dubois in Montreal. The attitude against him should chase him away. You get what you deserve, sometimes, when Karma works properly.

 

[Kojo]

If you're strictly arguing a personal definition of a power forward, what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Yes, Tkachuk is a power forward, because hen gets under your skin and plays an in your face role? Then, so is Marchand, but is he really?

Dismissing PLD as not being a power forward when one of his strengths is attracting double coverage, still holding onto the puck, despite that, locating a free line mate because of the double coverage and dishing the puck to them for a scoring opportunity -- over and over again...

Whatever...

No PLD isn't desperately trying to hit everyone he can at all times. Doesn't make him less of a power forward if he can keep puck possession in traffic and make plays there, play in the crease for tip ins and to take rebounds, etc.

PLD is not a power forward. He's pretending to be one but he's soft.

 

[Kimota]

PLD is not a power forward. He's pretending to be one but he's soft.

I view him somewhat of a power forward by considering where the league is now with its physicality which is essentialy non-existant. He has size and he's strong. I wish I would coach the guy and tell him to be a real power forward. He could use bringing in more edge to his game.

 

[Scriptor]

PLD is not a power forward. He's pretending to be one but he's soft.

lol. Watch the highlight reel and see that Dubois is anything but soft, playing the front of the opposing net on most shifts.

 

[Scriptor]

The thing is Suzuki was never acquired as a rebuilding block. He was part of a package obtained for Patch who was clearly done as a Hab and it was Tatar MB wanted in his quest for the legendary realm of anything can happen. Suzuki became support for that vision he became a rebuilding piece after the team was run into the ground and HuGo took over. The fortunate thing for us is we could be trying to do this with Cody Glass. But I'm not sure of two things.

1) Why are people still trying to credit our previous GM for things he fell into?
2) What is it doing in an all encompassing PLD thread.

Serioiusly, how the hell do you maintain, without bursting in laughter, that Bergevin was really after Tatar and not Suzuki in the Pacioretty trade?

Tatar was a Cap dump in the trade because he didn't get a long with the head coach in Vegas at the time and had been scratched for the long playoff run from Vegas.

You are being ridiculous with that bolded assertion.

 

[Kojo]

lol. Watch the highlight reel and see that Dubois is anything but soft, playing the front of the opposing net on most shifts.

I'll watch but this is a clip from last year.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Suzuki was a rebuild piece, but overshadowed by extending Gallagher, Armia and Byron, losing Tatar, signing Hoffman for term, and literally watching the value of Weber and Price plummet to zero.

The "other rebuild" pieces were totally normal. MB did get more firsts than he was alloted. than for Dvorak who was just 25 at the time so acceptable inprinciple, though overpaid in reality.

Of course if a guy is in place for a decade, he will leave behind guys in their D+x years. Big effing deal.

Once again, you are talking about GM vision flaws and overlooking that they still accumulated valuable rebuilding pieces. What would be left behind if he was fired in 2017? Poehling, Brook, Fleury, Primeau, Mete, Juulsen, Scherbak?

Habs made a change with their drafting and scouting in the 2018+ drafts. Yeah, Bergevin still tried to sign guys and be a middle of the pack team but that does not mean the rebuild didn't start before Gorton/Hughes because their drafting from 2018+ has been much better.

As I said before, this smells like Bergevin/Timmins hate and it clouds your judgement.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Doubling down on an erroneous statement changes nothing , you're still wrong .​

Nope, not wrong. You're getting caught in a knot on your Bergevin/Timmins dislike. I have the ability to look at the youth buildup they acquired from 2018+ and also look at their mistakes at the same time.

Our rebuild started before Gorton/Hughes was hired. Lots of core pieces that will be on this team for years.

Even if we draft Bedard I want PLD too.

Same here. Imagine having skilled forwards but no physical Dubois to mix in with them? Great plan. . We can easily acquire a Dubois type later on eh?

 

[Habs Halifax]

The thing is Suzuki was never acquired as a rebuilding block. He was part of a package obtained for Patch who was clearly done as a Hab and it was Tatar MB wanted in his quest for the legendary realm of anything can happen. Suzuki became support for that vision he became a rebuilding piece after the team was run into the ground and HuGo took over. The fortunate thing for us is we could be trying to do this with Cody Glass. But I'm not sure of two things.

1) Why are people still trying to credit our previous GM for things he fell into?
2) What is it doing in an all encompassing PLD thread.

Because I said our rebuild started before Bergevin/Timmins was hired. Many core young pieces will be part of our rebuild moving forward. Then the Bergevin/Timmins haters came out to play .

I swear some fans can't separate some of the good things vs the bad things with Bergevin and Timmins. To some, it has to be all bad or all good and no middle ground. Hey, you just did it too! "Bergevin wanted Tatar as the prime piece and Suzuki was meh add on eh"? . You must realize how ridiculous this sounds?

So back to the original point. Some are saying no to Dubois because they think our rebuild only started last season. False. We have several core pieces that come from before Gorton/Hughes (like it or not but deal with it!)

 

[Guy Larose]

The thing is Suzuki was never acquired as a rebuilding block. He was part of a package obtained for Patch who was clearly done as a Hab and it was Tatar MB wanted in his quest for the legendary realm of anything can happen. Suzuki became support for that vision he became a rebuilding piece after the team was run into the ground and HuGo took over. The fortunate thing for us is we could be trying to do this with Cody Glass. But I'm not sure of two things.

1) Why are people still trying to credit our previous GM for things he fell into?
2) What is it doing in an all encompassing PLD thread.

Tatar was the cap dump. Glass was the one he was after and ended up with Suzuki.