Post-Game Talk: ITS OVER- Did we make a huge mistake on Pierre-Luc Dubois Thread?

[Habs Halifax]

If Caufield hadn't suffered a season-ending injury Suzuki's numbers would certainly be inflated.

Agreed. Talent needs to play with talent. Look at Dubois's stats with Connor on his line and without? He was playing with Connor from Oct-early Jan and without Connor, his stats are closer to Suzuki without Caufield.

 

[Habs Halifax]

What does everyone think about this offer for Dubois? Wondering where Mesar fits with Roy, Slaf, Heineman, RHP, Farrell in the system on wing?

Hate to trade both Beck and Barron but we can draft Smith and Reinbacher? What's everyone's thoughts about having Barron in the deal? I'm hesitant

* Beck, Barron, Mesar,
* Dvorak and Armia both go as the NHL contracts.

 

[nhlfan9191]

Because I said our rebuild started before Bergevin/Timmins was hired. Many core young pieces will be part of our rebuild moving forward. Then the Bergevin/Timmins haters came out to play .

I swear some fans can't separate some of the good things vs the bad things with Bergevin and Timmins. To some, it has to be all bad or all good and no middle ground. Hey, you just did it too! "Bergevin wanted Tatar as the prime piece and Suzuki was meh add on eh"? . You must realize how ridiculous this sounds?

So back to the original point. Some are saying no to Dubois because they think our rebuild only started last season. False. We have several core pieces that come from before Gorton/Hughes (like it or not but deal with it!)

Absolutely nobody said Bergevin didn’t leave important pieces for the present rebuild. They pointed out your extremely flawed logic on what a rebuild is when it came to Bergevin’s tenure and you tried spinning things a dozen different ways because you knew you couldn’t win that argument.

 

[Rapala]

Tatar was the cap dump. Glass was the one he was after and ended up with Suzuki.

Tatar was the roster ready player cap dump or no.

 

[Rapala]

Because I said our rebuild started before Bergevin/Timmins was hired. Many core young pieces will be part of our rebuild moving forward. Then the Bergevin/Timmins haters came out to play .

I swear some fans can't separate some of the good things vs the bad things with Bergevin and Timmins. To some, it has to be all bad or all good and no middle ground. Hey, you just did it too! "Bergevin wanted Tatar as the prime piece and Suzuki was meh add on eh"? . You must realize how ridiculous this sounds?

So back to the original point. Some are saying no to Dubois because they think our rebuild only started last season. False. We have several core pieces that come from before Gorton/Hughes (like it or not but deal with it!)

Where in my post do I say anything close to what you aver? Bergevin wanted a roster ready player to continue his quest for glory. Nobody said Suzuki was a meh player he was a support piece for down the road read RETOOL not REBUILD. Bergevin had no intentions of rebuilding. I suggest you get over it take a vacation from this thread your camping out and jumping on any post that doesn't see things through your convoluted eyes is getting extremely annoying.
Also try to discourse in a more civil manner I would never attach that emoji to anything any member posts here regardless of how I feel. You will go on report the next time I sense you attacking my integrity this isn't the first time. Oh and when you go take your precious Bergevin Bobblehead with you.

 

[Colezuki]

Time to trade the FLA 1st for Dubois!

Fla 1st + Prospect + Dvo or something

 

[River Meadow]

This is the guy y'all wanna trade our 1st round (FLA) pick for? Disgusting. Shame on you.

 

[Ezpz]

This is the guy y'all wanna trade our 1st round (FLA) pick for? Disgusting. Shame on you.

That was when they agreed to trade him before the season and then forced him to play the season until they found a bid they liked. Speculatively, there's a good chance he didn't fit into the Jackets locker room as there were several very heavily MAGA Trump supporting players, including Seth Jones, among the leader group. Noted bigot John Tortorella was also the coach. It wouldn't shock me at all if it were an incredibly toxic environment. Texier also ended up leaving for mental health reasons.

 

[River Meadow]

That was when they agreed to trade him before the season and then forced him to play the season until they found a bid they liked. Speculatively, there's a good chance he didn't fit into the Jackets locker room as there were several very heavily MAGA Trump supporting players, including Seth Jones, among the leader group. Noted bigot John Tortorella was also the coach. It wouldn't shock me at all if it were an incredibly toxic environment. Texier also ended up leaving for mental health reasons.

I don't care if they praised Satan himself in that locker room.

That's not acceptable to give up on your team like that in that fashion, for your own pride, for paying fans, etc.

I would be very leery of this player.

Just my opinion.

 

[ReHabs]

I don't care if they praised Satan himself in that locker room.

That's not acceptable to give up on your team like that in that fashion, for your own pride, for paying fans, etc.

I would be very leery of this player.

Just my opinion.

It's one shift man, and it wasn't even that bad. It's been years since that happened too.

 

[River Meadow]

It's one shift man, and it wasn't even that bad. It's been years since that happened too.

I just cannot wrap my mind around paying FLA 1st round pick plus plus as some people here are suggesting.

Hellll noooooooooo

 

[Benstheman]

What does everyone think about this offer for Dubois? Wondering where Mesar fits with Roy, Slaf, Heineman, RHP, Farrell in the system on wing?

Hate to trade both Beck and Barron but we can draft Smith and Reinbacher? What's everyone's thoughts about having Barron in the deal? I'm hesitant

* Beck, Barron, Mesar,
* Dvorak and Armia both go as the NHL contracts.

Nope Too much for my likes.

 

[Omar]

What does everyone think about this offer for Dubois? Wondering where Mesar fits with Roy, Slaf, Heineman, RHP, Farrell in the system on wing?

Hate to trade both Beck and Barron but we can draft Smith and Reinbacher? What's everyone's thoughts about having Barron in the deal? I'm hesitant

* Beck, Barron, Mesar,
* Dvorak and Armia both go as the NHL contracts.

Winnipeg isn't looking for futures at this point from what I understand.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

Are you two having fun amongst yourselves because your mockery is as misguided as it is in poor taste.
There is a power forward next door to us in Ottawa; Who has a brother in Florida; Who plays with a certain player named Barkov; Who are all examples of power forwards and I don't know too many people who would have the audacity to try and compare PLD's game to theirs.

Sorry for the mockery but a majority of hockey experts would quote PLD as a power forward. Maybe we sould create a new category for power forwards for the brothers you mention. The way some PW plays is borderline illegal in the rules, they visit the penalty box often. Josh Anderson is a PW and when we had Eric Cole he was a PW too. We can waste a lot of time arguing about semantics on that and I prefer using the opinion of the majority of hockey experts/analists.

 

[Colezuki]

This is the guy y'all wanna trade our 1st round (FLA) pick for? Disgusting. Shame on you.

No I wanna trade it for this guy



Shame on you for not wanting to get players that want to win

 

[Le Tricolore]

This is the guy y'all wanna trade our 1st round (FLA) pick for? Disgusting. Shame on you.

Yes, the guy who would be second on the team in scoring right now by one point despite playing nine less games than the guy in first.

The Habs need help everywhere. PLD is a great player, despite what that one short clip you posted said.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Yes, the guy who would be second on the team in scoring right now by one point despite playing nine less games than the guy in first.

The Habs need help everywhere. PLD is a great player, despite what that one short clip you posted said.

Dubois has 3 years of 60 pts and is 24 years old.. He'd be one of the best forwards we've had in a long time lol, I can't believe people want to pass on him. Yes the guy we are gonna get with the Florida 1st is gonna be a 60 pt plus player with size, our recent history almost guarantees it.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

I just cannot wrap my mind around paying FLA 1st round pick plus plus as some people here are suggesting.

Hellll noooooooooo

The FLA first never played a singe game in NHL yet. If he get to the NHL he might be a 45 pts regular in 5 years. Yes it can be only that or he will never make the NHL. I prefer a proven nhler who made 60 pts 3 times on toxic teams, teams most players don't want to go.

 

[Ezpz]

I just cannot wrap my mind around paying FLA 1st round pick plus plus as some people here are suggesting.

Hellll noooooooooo

Perhaps you haven't been following and the FLA pick is likely to end up either 19th or 20th overall now. They passed three teams last night and are in WC1 spot now. The difference between the player there and our second round pick will be negligent in this draft.

Unless of course Florida go 0-4 and the Islanders, Flames, Pens, Predators, Buffalo, Ottawa and Detroit all go undefeated. Which isn't possible since Flames and Preds, Buffalo and Ottawa, and Detroit and Buffalo play each other. I suppose the Preds and Flames could technically drop a single game, but there's no way for both Ottawa and Detroit to pass them. So at absolute best we're getting 14th.

But that's in the event Florida drop four games in a row with their season on the line.

 

[Rapala]

Sorry for the mockery but a majority of hockey experts would quote PLD as a power forward. Maybe we sould create a new category for power forwards for the brothers you mention. The way some PW plays is borderline illegal in the rules, they visit the penalty box often. Josh Anderson is a PW and when we had Eric Cole he was a PW too. We can waste a lot of time arguing about semantics on that and I prefer using the opinion of the majority of hockey experts/analists.

Great I'll be looking forward to seeing him put his power forwardness on display.

 

[MXD]

There are valid reasons for not acquiring PLD, namely related to assets required whether it's excessive players, picks or capspace. The fact that he didn't care for playing in shit markets isn't such valid reason.

 

[The Great Weal]

“We don’t need a 60-70pt player!”

— fan of team that often has not even one 70pt player

I’d respect the poo-pooing of PLD more if the Habs actually had better options than him.

It’s like being homeless and jobless for a decade and out of the blue someone offers you an office job but you refuse because you are holding out for a CEO position.

 

[SlafySZN]

Once again, you are talking about GM vision flaws and overlooking that they still accumulated valuable rebuilding pieces. What would be left behind if he was fired in 2017? Poehling, Brook, Fleury, Primeau, Mete, Juulsen, Scherbak?

Habs made a change with their drafting and scouting in the 2018+ drafts. Yeah, Bergevin still tried to sign guys and be a middle of the pack team but that does not mean the rebuild didn't start before Gorton/Hughes because their drafting from 2018+ has been much better.

As I said before, this smells like Bergevin/Timmins hate and it clouds your judgement.

Drafting correctly is…not a rebuild.

You said yourself that Bergevin signed players to be middle of the pack.

Nope, not wrong. You're getting caught in a knot on your Bergevin/Timmins dislike. I have the ability to look at the youth buildup they acquired from 2018+ and also look at their mistakes at the same time.

Our rebuild started before Gorton/Hughes was hired. Lots of core pieces that will be on this team for years.



Same here. Imagine having skilled forwards but no physical Dubois to mix in with them? Great plan. . We can easily acquire a Dubois type later on eh?

Dach, Slafkovsky, Anderson are all dead, i guess?

 

[Rapala]

There are valid reasons for not acquiring PLD, namely related to assets required whether it's excessive players, picks or capspace. The fact that he didn't care for playing in shit markets isn't such valid reasons.

There are also views on the player's overall game some see him one way some don't. If I'm being frank I can't say Dubois impressed during the playoffs when we went head to head. It was actually a pathetic showing. His reg. season stats against us are okay but he was always on the stronger team and in many cases it wasn't even close. The important games for me were his most recent post season performances. Hopefully his team can make the show and he can redeem himself. But you are absolutely right the argument will still come down to how much how long and at what cost.

 

[sandviper]

This is the guy y'all wanna trade our 1st round (FLA) pick for? Disgusting. Shame on you.

It's a bad look but there was a lot of shit going on in that room. Sure, I wished he handled it differently but other than that one game, he's always been pretty engaged.

The wanting out in Winnipeg I don't even think is as big a story as it should be. Unless I missed a quote or press conference, this is more his agent just answering a question about the future and the media just ran with it. Not wanting to sign long term in Winnipeg isn't the same as wanting out either.

We're rebuilding, so yes, I don't want to give up the farm for him. Our Florida pick? I'd be ok with it as PLD is a known asset. We don't know how a #14-#2x pick is going to be. Plus, a pick in the second half of the 1st round is unlikely to be an effective contributor for at least 3-4 years. PLD would probably cut our rebuild by a year or two so we'd be competitive before that prospect can help.

I say all this though with the assumption we move Anderson or Dvorak in the deal. Kinda have to for the money. I'd prefer to dump Gallagher's ass but Winnipeg isn't taking that contract.