Post-Game Talk: ITS OVER- Did we make a huge mistake on Pierre-Luc Dubois Thread?

[Scriptor]

Francois Gagnon with the stupiest takes. Nobody is gonna offer the moon for him

If Brisson think the habs are desperate to get him , he's wrong as hell

Even if the Jets keep him until nextdeadline , They will get what a late first pick a late 2nd pick and a B prospect?

It's not that great of a return lol

Gagnon wants to get fans nervous and draw attention to him. Montreal has been burnt in the past because of local players who used this organization in a bidding war to make other teams pay more for their services.

It's easy to mention something that many are thinking and pass it off as legitimate.

When you know nothing for sure, everything is possible.

 

[salbutera]

Gagnon wants to get fans nervous and draw attention to him. Montreal has been burnt in the past because of local players who used this organization in a bidding war to make other teams pay more for their services.

It's easy to mention something that many are thinking and pass it off as legitimate.

When you know nothing for sure, everything is possible.

When was the last time a francophone media type was ever able to break any major Habs news instead of the usual Friedman, LeBrun etc.?

 

[BergevinBurner]

Last 25 games played:
PLD 10 pts
RHP 14 pts
NS 23 pts (will slot in nicely as #2 behind Dubois)

To be fair both players have had hot and cold streaks this year...

Suzuki in December+January: 16 points in 29 games.
PLD in December+January: 32 points in 31 games.

I'm not saying he'd be our 1C, but you can't put alot of weight into a bad stretch when Nick is just after coming out of one too.

 

[Scriptor]

Not on his own, but Dubois for 8 years helps it become relevant. The process is not going to succeed overnight, and adding a player of his calibre for a mid to late first and other expendable assets is easily part of a steady plan.

We have 4 strong players right now. Guhle and Slaf arguably will make 6. Dubois and Smith or our other 2023 high pick should make 8. One of Farrell, Heineman, Gurianov, Roy, Kidney and Beck will hopefully make 9.

$25-28 million of cap hit available and many more picks and prospects should enable us to land some talent in a cap world, namely a 1RD, 1G and one other missing piece if one of the above don't pan out.

11 strong players should allow us to contend. If we luck out with a superstar, it could be 9 plus that superstar who counts for two strong players.

The key, beyond that, is that limiting the Cap impact for our better players to market value at under 9M (preferably around 8M) also provides us with the Cap flexibility, in a rising Cap world in the coming years, to fill out the rest of the lineup with more talented depth for the playoffs, or to, worst case, enable us to keep our talented core together longer.

The key will be icing three strong lines and having two quality PMDs that drive the play, spread out on two pairings, to raise the level of play of the D-Corps for three quarters of the game.

Three solid lines and two play driving Ds should enable us to fill the special teams with quality waves, four forwards and one play driving D on each PP wave. Affordable and defensively responsible 4th liners can get time on the PK and keep our better offensive players like Suzuki fresher for more offensive missions.

 

[Vachon23]

Kidney are 1st Round caliber prospects

What ???

Last 25 games played:
PLD 10 pts
RHP 14 pts
NS 23 pts (will slot in nicely as #2 behind Dubois)

When the goin’ gets tough …
View attachment 678457

You know PLD is injured right ?

 

[Scriptor]

Yep I would no put our 2024 first on the line unless there’s a protection with a push to 2025.

Trading the florida pick this year is also scaring me… I still think they will shit the bed for the last 7 games and the pick might be close to top 10

I don't think that the trade happens other than on the draft floor, like last year with Dach. Montreal will know where the FLA pick lands in the draft rankings and Hiughes will be able to make an informed decision whether or not to trade the pick for Dubois.

A 25yo Dubois? You make it sound like he needs a wheelchair...

It's not like WOODY FRYMAN for the Expos, who needed to be injected with something, before being wheeled out onto the mound every appearance he made. Seriously...

 

[sampollock]

the press will go crazy if PLD never comes to the CH

 

[CHwest]

the press will go crazy if PLD never comes to the CH

A few fans will as well.

 

[Scriptor]

While he cost Romanov + 2 picks, to put it as a pick, Dach cost the Habs 13th overall + 2 3rds.

Most of the hab fans are suggesting Florida's pick + Dvorak, or something. It's suggesting to pay a little more for a player with a much more proven track record.

Most don't want to deal the 1st, Dvorak, Mesar/Mailloux/prospect of thar calibre + for him.

Dach's contract takes him to 1 year RFA left. That deal is looking pretty good here and I imagine HuGo don't want to rush it, but if they can expedite the rebuild, why not try it ?

Me, personally if they waited and did get him for free over a year from now and kept all the 1sts would be great.

If they do, personally I'd rather deal Mesar and Dvorak instead of Florida's 1st, but that might be cheaping out.

If 15 months from now the Habs are signing PLD as a free agent and bring Wood out of college that would be amazing. However, the news being reported sounds like they're working on a deal. That's where I'm coming from. The assumption that the Habs will trade for him.

I mean, who wouldn't rather have 2 1sts this year in the prospect pool, PLD next year and potentially 2 more 1sts next year added to the pool ?

I think every fan would want the best of both worlds, but, IMO, adding Dubois is too valuable to leave it to providence in 15 months.

I am not saying, again, that Dubois is a saviour or the one missing piece that takes us over the top at all, but it adds a structural piece, if not structural peace (of mind) for the top-6 with a production floor that is high end, at the very least, for a 2nd line forward.

 

[Ozmodiar]

To be fair both players have had hot and cold streaks this year...

Suzuki in December+January: 16 points in 29 games.
PLD in December+January: 32 points in 31 games.

I'm not saying he'd be our 1C, but you can't put alot of weight into a bad stretch when Nick is just after coming out of one too.

The Jets are at critical stretch in their schedule and RHP is producing more. … and many think he deserves over 8M.

Buyer beware.

I’d like to add PLD but the numbers have to make sense. He doesn’t deserve more than Caufield or Suzuki.

 

[morhilane]

You're certainly not painting a glowing endorsement for PLD with this post!

All we heard after the CBJ-Jets trade was how PLD felt like he was going home again.

We'll see what happens. Maybe he'll play inspired hockey in Montreal and will do it for a long period. We don't know. All I can say is I will have my guard up because of his history of wanting out when things aren't ideal.

I remember the Jets pundits saying the Jets management were hopeful PLD would stick long term because his dad was in the organization, I do not remember PLD saying it was like coming home again, but his play speak for itself. He was dejected after the trade, even more when playing against the Habs in the playoffs. It seem he grew up after that season thought, he was fine last season and this year.

I doubt he's going to want out of Montréal if he comes here, in his few comments about "long term contract" it always came back to living somewhere long term and he trains there in the off-season. Also, he knows plenty about what is happening in the Habs, he's friend with Savard and Anderson.

I expect him to get a NMC where ever he signs long-term.

 

[BergevinBurner]

The Jets are at critical stretch in their schedule and RHP is producing more. … and many think he deserves over 8M.

Buyer beware.

I’d like to add PLD but the numbers have to make sense. He doesn’t deserve more than Caufield or Suzuki.

If we could get him at 8x8 I'd be down, but I wouldn't go over that for him.

And I'd give PLD a bit of leeway with the cold streak, the entire Jets top 6 has gone cold recently. If it was just PLD that dropped off a cliff I'd be a little more worried.

 

[Scriptor]

I keep hearing the name of Harris but the more I see of this kid, I like him more and more.

I like Harris as well and I love the way he is generous in interviews and sound mature for his age, but I'm always wary of becoming too attached to players.

I don't think that Harris, at least not on the Habs with the depth it boasts on the left side, will be a major piece of the puzzle going forward. I don't think he will be a top-4 D in the short to medium term with three years left of Matheson, Guhle and Xhekaj in the picture, plus Hutson knocking at the door within another year of hockey played.

Gnawing at the bit with some subbing on left D and play on his off side, plus games missed would definitely affect his prospects at a much better contract when his current extension comes to an end and could/would surely lead to disenchantment for the young but promising D.

Losing Harris should never be a deal breaker when contemplating adding a key player at a key position. Harris will never surpass others already in the system as one of the two play driving Ds needed who can play 25 minutes a game.

ewe have enough supporting cast Ds that also bring more physicality than Harris, but play as intelligent a brand of hockey to make Harris expendable, even if reluctantly so.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

I think every fan would want the best of both worlds, but, IMO, adding Dubois is too valuable to leave it to providence in 15 months.

I am not saying, again, that Dubois is a saviour or the one missing piece that takes us over the top at all, but it adds a structural piece, if not structural peace (of mind) for the top-6 with a production floor that is high end, at the very least, for a 2nd line forward.

I think that's what everyone is trying to say.

He's not a top end player, but he's a very good and unique player.

As I've also mentioned, PLD isn't very good at faceoffs. Better than Dach, but still not the best. Get PLD and let Suzuki, Dach and PLD centre their own line for a year and see how they do when it comes to faceoffs.

 

[expy]

the press will go crazy if PLD never comes to the CH

Those press can go out of business then, better for everyone.

 

[Captain Mountain]

The "stuff" in the off-season was certainly not that the Canadiens were solely and only the team he wanted to play for.

Pat Brisson said this: "Montreal is a city he would probably … I can talk about it because he doesn't have a contract at the moment - he's a restricted free agent," Brisson told TVA Sports in French, as translated by The Athletic. "Montreal is a place, a city he'd like to play in. That's all I can say about that."

There's an enormous difference between that quote and you claiming that Montreal is the only team he wants to play for.

It depends what you mean by "stuff". The standard you appear to be looking for isn't really a thing at the NHL. I can't think of a time in the last 30 years that anything met that standard. And if it was the only one anyone cared about, there'd never be a point to threads like this or most trade/free agency threads or forums. We also can't pretend that recent comments from guys like Friedman and LeBrun have no value, we're not talking about some Montreal rumour rag here.

I also never claimed that Montreal is the only team he wants to play for, so not sure what you're on about there.

 

[morhilane]

If we could get him at 8x8 I'd be down, but I wouldn't go over that for him.

And I'd give PLD a bit of leeway with the cold streak, the entire Jets top 6 has gone cold recently. If it was just PLD that dropped off a cliff I'd be a little more worried.

PLD seems to always cool off toward the end of the season. I can't say if it's the season wear&tear or not, but this year he played injured a while, missed a good chunk of March and had 3pts in 6 games since his return to play.

Scheifele: 1 pts in those 6 games.
Connor: 2 pts in those 6 games.
Wheeler: 0 pts in those 6 games.

 

[BaseballCoach]

The key, beyond that, is that limiting the Cap impact for our better players to market value at under 9M (preferably around 8M) also provides us with the Cap flexibility, in a rising Cap world in the coming years, to fill out the rest of the lineup with more talented depth for the playoffs, or to, worst case, enable us to keep our talented core together longer.

The key will be icing three strong lines and having two quality PMDs that drive the play, spread out on two pairings, to raise the level of play of the D-Corps for three quarters of the game.

Three solid lines and two play driving Ds should enable us to fill the special teams with quality waves, four forwards and one play driving D on each PP wave. Affordable and defensively responsible 4th liners can get time on the PK and keep our better offensive players like Suzuki fresher for more offensive missions.

I favour an 11 strong player model.

Two first lines, a 3C who is 2C calibre on most teams, 3 first pair D and a good starting g.

 

[Hannibal]

It still baffles me to see some here who wouldn’t want to have Dubois on their team. I mean, what the f*** lol?

No to a 25 years old, 6ft3, center/winger, 3-times 60 points season already. You guys are freaking bat-shit crazy. The same who wants Farrell top 6 next year! The same who will cry when the next superstar player will only want to go to the NYR.

Most of the teams would kill to get a hand on a player with Dubois’s skillset. But some habs fans are « no we’re good with Farrell and Mesar and the next midget will pick at 16 overall »

 

[Ozmodiar]

And I'd give PLD a bit of leeway with the cold streak, the entire Jets top 6 has gone cold recently. If it was just PLD that dropped off a cliff I'd be a little more worried.

9th on the team in P/GP during that stretch.
Scheif, Connor, morissey, wheeler - all .7 or above. PLD .4.

 

[Scriptor]

I hear what you're saying. A couple of things though...

1. Most here believe this draft is stronger and deeper than last year's and a top 15 pick is worth more than a year ago. We'll find out in a few years.

2. PLD is due for a massive raise whereas Dach came in with a bit of cost control.

My concerns with PLD are that he seems to be the type of person who gets sick of his workplace quickly and then wants out for greener pastures. We all know people like this in our everyday real world lives.

How do you come to this conclusion from what events transpired.

Dubois is all-in in Columbus, but has to deal with a toxic work environment spearheaded by a head coach who uses public humiliation tactics as supposed motivational endeavours.

Dubois, after a push to make headway in the playoffs, circa 2018-2019, sees the team gradually losing its better players and the head coach put more and more pressure on his shoulders to carry the team, without using any ingratiating measures to support the forward.

That only leads to heightened toxicity with less and less light at the end of the tunnel to help a player weather the storm.

It really doesn't come across as a situation where PLD was sick or bored of the work place and just wanted to move on for a change of scenery.

With WIN, it's not like Dubois came aboard all gung ho and, then, got bored, looking for another situation to switch things up. He told them, before they traded form him, that he would not sign with them pst his RFA years and, it's not like he hasn't lived up to his potential there because of it.

Dubois did not go on strike, or ask for arbitration, or create any public discord while waiting for his UFA status to kick in, as he had forewarned WIN from the start.

I, personally, am one that gets bored with a job once I have assimilated all the intricacies. That's why I shifted from one career to another until I landed in film production, where I can hold several different roles from project to project and where individual circumstances make the work day different from day to day, sometimes not by much, bit other times by a good margin to keep things interesting. I also work in roles where problem-solving is what keeps the job fresh.

I honestly don't think that Dubois' behaviour hints at anything you suggest (and I know people like the ones you describe in the everyday work force - me).

 

[Scriptor]

If our injury devastated team full of AHLers couldn’t get bottom5 this year so you think it’ll happen next year with PLD on the roster?

I agree with you that we won't finish worse than this year, but it all depends what he meant by fairly high up and how low a percentage chance he feels is needed to make it a 1st OA potential pick?

Lottery pick is 16-worst teams. All of those teams can move up ten spots. 11th worst is the cutoff for an abysmal chance at the 1st OA.

With Dubois and a healthy roster, I honestly don't believe we would/could finish in the top-5 worst teams and, maybe not in the top-10 worst teams, but I could see us missing the playoffs again, for sure and, if the Gs arena,t as good as they were this year, 11th worst could be possible, IMO.

Other than Dubois, I don't think next year will be a year where we can add prospects who will have much of an impact on the team's fortunes. The demographics of it and the development curves for our better prospects don't lend to that and next year appears to be a year where there will be a lull in talent influx, IMHO. We'll be relying on the progression of our younger players and, there is always the danger of some experiencing a bit of a sophomore jinx.

 

[boompuffboom]

i think maybe the only question is, are we better with PLD? or are we better without PLD.

counting is hard

 

[Scriptor]

Harris knows how to play and he has potential to be even better moving forward. I honestly think we might trade him later because is there room for both Harris and Hutson if we want to be contender? Maybe there is if the other guys are bigger/mobile types like Guhle, Xhekaj, Barron, Mailloux.

Then I wonder about Matheson. Age 29 today and signed till his age 33 season. We might have to consider that not all our roster will be 30 or under in 3+ years and Matheson might stay. I really liked what I have seen from him this season. He has clearly improved as the season moved along and that puck moving/skating is top notch.

So yeah... I think I would pick Matheson and Hutson and flip Harris in another trade later on. Jets won't give us the fair value for Harris in the Dubois trade package anyways.

Just not to mislead, let's say that Matheson is signed THROUGH his 32-yr-old season, not signed until his age 33 season, which, for some, could sound like he's under contract as a 33 year-old.

It only heightens the probability of signing him to a 3-year contract as a stabilizing veteran with remaining offensive upside that can play calmly under pressure.

But, even with Matheson gone, if you're making room for Hutson, and also have Guhle and Xhekaj on the left side, is there much of a predominant role left for Harris?

It's not a question of talent or potential. It's just a numbers game and Harris doesn't hold enough cards, IMO to not be the sacrificial lamb at some point.

 

[Schooner Guy]

I remember the Jets pundits saying the Jets management were hopeful PLD would stick long term because his dad was in the organization, I do not remember PLD saying it was like coming home again, but his play speak for itself. He was dejected after the trade, even more when playing against the Habs in the playoffs. It seem he grew up after that season thought, he was fine last season and this year.

I doubt he's going to want out of Montréal if he comes here, in his few comments about "long term contract" it always came back to living somewhere long term and he trains there in the off-season. Also, he knows plenty about what is happening in the Habs, he's friend with Savard and Anderson.

I expect him to get a NMC where ever he signs long-term.

This came up from the Winnipeg Free Press article from after he was traded to Winnipeg...

“It already feels like home,” he said of Winnipeg during a media availability on Sunday.

It also mentions he lived in Winnipeg with his parents in spring/summer 2020 when the NHL was shut down at the beginning of the pandemic.