Post-Game Talk: ITS OVER- Did we make a huge mistake on Pierre-Luc Dubois Thread?

[Habs Halifax]

The "stuff" in the off-season was certainly not that the Canadiens were solely and only the team he wanted to play for.

Pat Brisson said this: "Montreal is a city he would probably … I can talk about it because he doesn't have a contract at the moment - he's a restricted free agent," Brisson told TVA Sports in French, as translated by The Athletic. "Montreal is a place, a city he'd like to play in. That's all I can say about that."

There's an enormous difference between that quote and you claiming that Montreal is the only team he wants to play for.

This is true. Dubois and his agent are not just saying Montreal but then you wonder... Why is he leaving the Jets who have a good team? Does he not like Winnipeg or some of his teammates or did he really get uninspired after asking out of Columbus and wanting to be traded to the Habs. What are the reasons why he won't sign in Winnipeg?

Personally, I do think he has a few teams in his mind after the Habs but I don't think that list is large. I don't think the Bruins are on it. But the Avs and Canes might be. Imagine, A well documented narrative where he grew up a Habs fan and his agent says he is interested in the Habs and then ends up picking the Bruins. I'd bet money against that? Any takers?

Habs are on his list no doubt and it's very possible we are at the top of the list.

 

[Schooner Guy]

He told the Jets at the time of trade he will hit UFA. The Jets organization revealed to the media that PLD doesn't want to sign long-term, that first release wasn't from PLD's camp. Ever since then it's been the same topic - the Jets wanted a long-term deal, and PLD refused to sign beyond his mandated restricted period.

The whole Jets team has gone stale, you have to respect the context even if you want to poo-poo this one player.

Don't be so dramatic with the "poo-poo" on him. Do you have absolutely zero concerns about a young player who has wanted out of two organizations for greener pastures? It certainly isn't conventional. I said the same thing when he wanted out of Columbus. It's odd for a player that young to want out of the organization that drafted him and invested so much into him.

 

[salbutera]

The "stuff" in the off-season was certainly not that the Canadiens were solely and only the team he wanted to play for.

Pat Brisson said this: "Montreal is a city he would probably … I can talk about it because he doesn't have a contract at the moment - he's a restricted free agent," Brisson told TVA Sports in French, as translated by The Athletic. "Montreal is a place, a city he'd like to play in. That's all I can say about that."

There's an enormous difference between that quote and you claiming that Montreal is the only team he wants to play for.

Bottom line: Friedman isn't in the rumor business, and definitely never goes out on a limb quoting probabilities let alone “95% chance PLD ends up in Mtl” unless he’s been leaked info from a direct source involved in present negotiations…

It’s a fait accompli, 95% is basically saying it’s only a matter of where & when the trade announcement will be made….

 

[TomKosto]

This is true. Dubois and his agent are not just saying Montreal but then you wonder... Why is he leaving the Jets who have a good team? Does he not like Winnipeg or some of his teammates or did he really get uninspired after asking out of Columbus and wanting to be traded to the Habs. What are the reasons why he won't sign in Winnipeg?

Personally, I do think he has a few teams in his mind after the Habs but I don't think that list is large. I don't think the Bruins are on it. But the Avs and Canes might be. Imagine, A well documented narrative where he grew up a Habs fan and his agent says he is interested in the Habs and then ends up picking the Bruins. I'd bet money against that? Any takers?

Habs are on his list no doubt and it's very possible we are at the top of the list.

Boston can absolutely be a destination. Bergeron retiring and coming off the books. He would have the chance to play with two of the best wingers in the game. Sheifele can be a match there too. Maybe it's the 5% chance Friedman talks about. I think Mtl can give more salary though.

 

[FerrisRox]

This is true. Dubois and his agent are not just saying Montreal but then you wonder... Why is he leaving the Jets who have a good team? Does he not like Winnipeg or some of his teammates or did he really get uninspired after asking out of Columbus and wanting to be traded to the Habs. What are the reasons why he won't sign in Winnipeg?

I don't think it's a big mystery.

If you were in a position to choose were you were going to live and work for the next seven or eight years, and the money was going to be roughly the same... would you choose Winnipeg?

Winnipeg, Buffalo and Columbus would be at the bottom of my list. I would simply rule them out and look at all the other offers.

 

[Natey]

Saw a link in the main board that said something like FLA 1st + Kidney + Engstrom.

LOL, no. Just no.

Kidney and Engstrom are 1st Round caliber prospects at this point. Not giving 3 1sts for Dubois.

 

[ReHabs]

Don't be so dramatic with the "poo-poo" on him. Do you have absolutely zero concerns about a young player who has wanted out of two organizations for greener pastures? It certainly isn't conventional. I said the same thing when he wanted out of Columbus. It's odd for a player that young to want out of the organization that drafted him and invested so much into him.

CBJ is a god awful organization that is going nowhere and has never been well run. WPG is Winnipeg, a not interesting and frigid city.

I don’t think two makes a pattern — besides, he never had any choice in the matter between CBJ and WPG. At no point did he choose to play for CBJ or WPG. If he had a habit of dipping out of organizations he signed with, I’d consider it strange. That’s not the case here.

Poo!

 

[Habs Halifax]

I don't think it's a big mystery.

If you were in a position to choose were you were going to live and work for the next seven or eight years, and the money was going to be roughly the same... would you choose Winnipeg?

Winnipeg, Buffalo and Columbus would be at the bottom of my list. I would simply rule them out and look at all the other offers.

It will be interesting to look back at this in a few years. Where does he get traded to and who he signs long term. Is the speculation today valid or just wrong.

Personally, Like I said previously, I do think he has a short list. Habs, Avs, and Canes are 3 teams I would guess on. Bruins will be looking for a center as well but I doubt Dubois picks them when he will have several options.

 

[Schooner Guy]

PLD was happy to be traded to the Jets? The guy who phoned it in during the season after being traded (having his worst season ppg-wise) and in the playoffs that followed was happy to be there?

What I remember of that year was how PLD looked exactly like he did back in Columbus when he wanted out of there ASAP.

You're certainly not painting a glowing endorsement for PLD with this post!

All we heard after the CBJ-Jets trade was how PLD felt like he was going home again.

We'll see what happens. Maybe he'll play inspired hockey in Montreal and will do it for a long period. We don't know. All I can say is I will have my guard up because of his history of wanting out when things aren't ideal.

 

[salbutera]

It will be interesting to look back at this in a few years. Where does he get traded to and who he signs long term. Is the speculation today valid or just wrong.

Personally, Like I said previously, I do think he has a short list. Habs, Avs, and Canes are 3 teams I would guess on. Bruins will be looking for a center as well but I doubt Dubois picks them when he will have several options.

Also Friedman & Seravalli have essentially taken over for Bobby Mac as the most trusted hockey media sources - going out on a limb publicly stating “95% probability PLD ends up in Mtl” will be a hit to Friedman’s credentials going forward if this doesn’t come to fruition…

 

[Scriptor]

Yeah but there could be better than Hellebuck or equivalent in the next 2 years. Centers are rare we know that and Hellebuck is already 30.


Their whole team is in a bad slump right now. It affected their moral I guess.

Lack of confidence, during slumps, especially when you have skilled players, IMO, leads to individual play and that never works in a team sport.

It's a sign that you want to own up to your responsibilities in order to get out of the current funk -- and that is a positive thing -- but it's the wrong approach because it doesn't maximize exploiting the collective skills that can put you over the top.

 

[TomKosto]

You're certainly not painting a glowing endorsement for PLD with this post!

All we heard after the CBJ-Jets trade was how PLD felt like he was going home again.

We'll see what happens. Maybe he'll play inspired hockey in Montreal and will do it for a long period. We don't know. All I can say is I will have my guard up because of his history of wanting out when things aren't ideal.

That's a real concern, will he asked a trade out the first time things go rough in Mtl? It all depends of the price. If we can get him for cheap or free at the ufas, it's a good gamble.

 

[FerrisRox]

Also Friedman & Seravalli have essentially taken over for Bobby Mac as the most trusted hockey media sources - going out on a limb publicly stating “95% probability PLD ends up in Mtl” will be a hit to Friedman’s credentials going forward if this doesn’t come to fruition…

It depends on what you think that 95 percent means.

Is he saying 95 percent change he is a Canadien when his current RFA deal ends, 95 percent when he's a UFA a year later, or 95 percent chance he is a Canadien during his career?

I don't see how it would affect his credibility in any way frankly. 95 percent chance isn't 100 percent, so if he is not a Canadien, that doesn't make Friedman wrong.

 

[Schooner Guy]

I don’t think two makes a latter — besides, he never had any choice in the matter between CBJ and WPG. At no point did he choose to play for CBJ or WPG. If he had a habit of dipping out of organizations he signed with, I’d consider it strange. That’s not the case here.

You can say that about every player in the NHL. None of them have a choice. I'm sure Edmonton was far from McDavid's first choice.

I hope everything works out with PLD. He's an impact player WHEN he wants to play. I will always be cautiously optimistic with my guard up however given his track record.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Also Friedman & Seravalli have essentially taken over for Bobby Mac as the most trusted hockey media sources - going out on a limb publicly stating “95% probability PLD ends up in Mtl” will be a hit to Friedman’s credentials going forward if this doesn’t come to fruition…

I don't understand why some fans are ignoring all the context. It this a situation where it's too good to be true? Habs have not had much luck with that in the past but this is not some Tavares dream that he signs with us because Weber is his friend. People need to be careful with the spins in attempts to dimish the context we have come to know.

I'm personally 60-80% sure he lands in Montreal. 20-40% he don't. Friedman saying 95% is a high number. How much do they really know? Not sure.

Said this a few times. PLD will not just have the Habs on his list but we are on his list and I don't think his list of teams is deep. Habs, Avs, and Canes are 3 teams I think he considers. Avs worry me

Brisson saying his client does indeed have the Habs as one of his teams he would sign with is very interesting. What are the hidden motives or strategy to him releasing that information?

 

[JRichard]

Disagree with argument Dubois wont make any difference in a rebuilding phase. That is in fact a true statement. Thing is it applies to all NHL players and prospects saved for a couple of all stars and Bedard. Adding 3-4 guys like Dubois is the way to go.
Do not expect improvement from mostly bad veteran group of 11 players 26 yrs old and up on the team now. Some young guys will improve, other will go through sophomore slump or just plateau.

 

[salbutera]

It depends on what you think that 95 percent means.

Is he saying 95 percent change he is a Canadien when his current RFA deal ends, 95 percent when he's a UFA a year later, or 95 percent chance he is a Canadien during his career.

I don't see how it would affect his credibility in any way frankly. 95 percent chance isn't 100 percent, so if he is not a Canadien, that doesn't make Friedman wrong.

LeBrun, Seravalli, Friedman, Johnson … these guys are serious hockey media types who don’t ever throw around specific chances or probabilities of player movements to locations just as Bobby Mac & Gord Miller always refused to.

Any rumors they leak are based on direct info provided by hockey management & ownership sources who’ve told them specifics.

 

[FerrisRox]

LeBrun, Seravalli, Friedman, Johnson … these guys are serious hockey media types who don’t ever throw around specific chances or probabilities of player movements to locations just as Bobby Mac & Gord Miller always refused to.

Any rumors they leak are based on known hockey management & ownership sources who’ve told them specifics.

Why are you telling me this?

Do you think I am unaware of this?

 

[Ozmodiar]

Last 25 games played:
PLD 10 pts
RHP 14 pts
NS 23 pts (will slot in nicely as #2 behind Dubois)

When the goin’ gets tough …

 

[salbutera]

Why are you telling me this?

Do you think I am unaware of this?

No - responding to: “I don't see how it would affect his credibility in any way frankly.”

These guys don’t ever get info they publicly shared that they are sure of wrong…others do not these guys, due diligence is paramount to their credibility.

Otherwise they become Eklund overnight…. even with one screw up

 

[Ozmodiar]

Why are you telling me this?

Do you think I am unaware of this?

 

[Scriptor]

It's more the idea we keep chasing players who had issues with their prior organizations and give up something valuable to acquire them. Who the players are doesn't really matter. New York desperately wanted out of Gomez's contract and we gifted them McDonagh while Drouin was nothing but a giant headache for Stevie Y. and he somehow turned that into Sergachev.

I'm fine with us giving up Florida or Calgary's pick as they're basically darts on a board. If the Jets insist on Dach or any noteworthy prospect though, they can piss off. That being said, I really think we should stay the course and not bother with Dubois at all.

Dubois is not a problem as a player in WIN. In fact, he's not remotely disruptive outside of his play on the ice either. The head coach in WIN is calling out the usual suspects; Scheifele, Wheeler and Connor.

Dubois is not a player WIN has issues with, other than him not wanting to play there long term and advising them as such before they pulled the trigger on the deal sending Laine and Roslovic to CLB for his services. In fact, they want to keep him, not unload him.

Montreal would not be solving a problem for WIN by taking an unwanted player off their hands. Not in the least. Comparing this to other such scenarios like Gomez or Drouin does not hold water, IMO.

However, by trading something for Dubois, Montreal would, indeed, be helping WIN salvage something from their situation.

However, I have zero empathy for WIN and Chevy's Day Off for how they managed the whole situation from the get-go to the present, so far.

Montreal, in the short run, will be faced with too many prospects who don't have room on the roster and an eventual NHL-contract squeeze. It's always tricky to decide which prospects to prioritize when they haven't finished developing, but Montreal will have to make those calls.

At this point, I don't see why they wouldn't trade some of these prospects for a young, sure thing with 25-goals, 60 points, two-way play and physicality as a floor?

As fans, we should stop evaluating players as Saviour/Not saviour and recognize that a team sport needs several degrees of valuable parts.

Dubois represents the higher end of what Montreal has boasted in like forever in terms of forwards on the ice. Even if he only became the new benchmark for above average production in Montreal, that would mean good news for the team because he'd be more than just a complementary player on a deeper team, talent-wise.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Last 25 games played:
PLD 10 pts
RHP 14 pts
NS 23 pts (will slot in nicely as #2 behind Dubois)

When the goin’ gets tough …
View attachment 678457

Talent needs to play with talent and Dubois was on a tear with Connor on his line for the first half of the season. It's funny cause Nick Krepoes reports early in the new year that according to his sources, Dubois is still not signing with the Jets even if they win a cup and he really does want to play with the Habs.

Then Connor was moved off of Dubois's line and Dubois also had a few games missed due to injury. Dubois's stats from Jan+ are certainly not as good as Oct-Jan.

Recently, I have seen Connor back on his line.

All of this don't matter to me. Why? Because even Suzuki ran through a dry stretch without Caufield but he has produces well recently. I do think Suzuki and Dubois are similar in value and the points they generate depends on the talent they are playing with. They both can be 80 pts centers if we have better talent with them and a more potent PP on both units.

 

[Scriptor]

Someone said we should trade Lane Hutson for PLD though.

Yes, single out one person as the overall consensus!

Scarecrow tactics always work.

 

[ReHabs]

You can say that about every player in the NHL. None of them have a choice. I'm sure Edmonton was far from McDavid's first choice.

I hope everything works out with PLD. He's an impact player WHEN he wants to play. I will always be cautiously optimistic with my guard up however given his track record.

I’m sure McDavid wouldn’t want to play for the Oilers either. The draft system is ridiculous the more you think about it.