Post-Game Talk: ITS OVER- Did we make a huge mistake on Pierre-Luc Dubois Thread?

[Belial]

Yea, he is off to Europe.

It is really surprising that he hasn't even had an assistant coaching job in the NHL all these years.

Maybe he hoped for a head coach offer right away.

I can't believe he never got some assistant coach offers...

 

[MarkovsKnee]

To be fair the only reputable person who's mentioned this is LeBrun and he stated they haven't even finished the framework of the deal and LA aren't allowed to speak with Dubois about a potential extension until they are on common ground. Dubois could say yeah LA sounds good discuss a trade then give his numbers to LA later and have them say oh no thanks that's way more than we wanted to pay you.

Which is weird because Basu etc have said that Montreal is pretty clear on the numbers on PLD. They talked to him last summer when he was an RFA and was available to be talked to, which will be the case again June 29th. Any team can negotiate with PLD the day after the draft. He's an RFA.

LAK should have already done their homework on this, so not sure how that's even an issue.

Maybe this trade gets done post-draft.

 

[Frankenheimer]

It’s what I’ve been saying … if PLD wants MTL it will be MTL. He holds all the cards.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

To me it's no different than when Aho signed with us. Aho used us to get the term and price he wanted from Carolina knowing they would match Montreal.

He'll get what he wants from LA (or whoever ends up with him) because he'll have Montreal's offer in his back pocket.

And yes, its foolish to listen to anyone with a made up percentage, especially those in the media.

Aho did not know Carolina would match. He probably suspected they would but what he wanted was the 5 year contract MB guaranteed with the offer sheet. He wouldn't have signed it unless he was happy to play for either team.
With regard to the offer sheet either MB got suckered by the agent or he and/or Molson were too stupid to properly gauge what Dundon would do. And of course Molson should have known Dundon would retaliate regardless of whether he matched or not.

 

[sampollock]

It’s what I’ve been saying … if PLD wants MTL it will be MTL. He holds all the cards.

i guess we see... you are not wrong

If he won't sign a long term deal with another team like LA, they won't trade for him

 

[Adam Michaels]

Maybe he hoped for a head coach offer right away.

I can't believe he never got some assistant coach offers...

Turns out, he will be getting staying in Tampa in another position. Patrick Williams (go-to AHL guy) reported it. I thought I had seen him going to Europe. It's possible it was only a rumor and nothing was official.

 

[The Nightman]

Chris Johnston update as well:

 

[ReHabs]

I don't disagree but I would prefer to blow as many holes as possible in our roster and fill them with existing assets. There are very possibly some NHL calibre players who won't be a good fit here in the long term but will have value somewhere else. My take is we need to see these players in the NHL to maximize the possible returns. A good example is Ylonen he is worth more now having NHL games under his belt than if he didn't. At that point have at it. While acquiring Dubois may have some short term benefits the long term costs may be too prohibitive. I'm not going to lambaste the braintrust for not making deals they aren't comfortable with. The tell-tale year for me will be 2024/25. If we haven't seen dramatic improvements in both the on ice personnel and our standing in the league I wouldn't hesitate to be critical of the areas we are found weak in.

Ylonen, Heineman, etc. What's their upside? It's not likely they're be PLD, Ylonen is only one year younger than PLD to begin with and he's not even a full-fledged NHLer! Barring miracles he will never be as good as PLD. The goal isn't to optimize and maximize individual trade values -- it's not possible even, given the limited TOI available to dish out. Good players get more TOI and more shifts with other good players, they tend to produce more because of it. I feel PLD in our top6 helps our top6 more than sticking Ylonen or another one of these prospects in there.

The only prospect we have who is in line for a top6 role in the near future is Slafkovsky. Everyone else has too many question marks for us to plan to accommodate - Mesar, Roy, etc are not serious bluechip prospects.. If a prospect is good enough to earn top6 minutes, then we're blessed to have scoring depth. Let them cook in the AHL and elsewhere until the force the GM's hand to make a move to accommodate them.

The question is: What's the long-term cost of not having developed these not-bluechip prospects? I'm not really sure there's an answer but I feel like the cost is insignificant compared to the gains. A strong top6 player locked into the core, size up front (finally), general effects like having our other top6 playrs play with a superior quality linemate, and an overabundance of quantity dished away for quality.

This is all notwithstanding the trade cost -- maybe we simply don't have the pieces WPG wants, and we cannot lambast the leaders for it -- but after two tank seasons and with all this prospect pool depth everybody raves about and being so close to the contract limit with so much spare cap space I find it strange we still hear the "prices are too high" excuse.

Maybe they plan to tank next year. I don't see it but maybe that's the case. But it would be strange of them to half-ass tank the Bedard year, to the extent of letting players play on broken bones, but go for it next year, no?

 

[le_sean]

i guess we see... you are not wrong

If he won't sign a long term deal with another team like LA, they won't trade for him

They might still trade for him, but for a reduced package to try and go for it this year. But then the smaller offer might just get beat by what the Habs are offering.

 

[sampollock]

They might still trade for him, but for a reduced package to try and go for it this year. But then the smaller offer might just get beat by what the Habs are offering.

yes. this could happen too. the term deal will decide it

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

Which is weird because Basu etc have said that Montreal is pretty clear on the numbers on PLD. They talked to him last summer when he was an RFA and was available to be talked to, which will be the case again June 29th. Any team can negotiate with PLD the day after the draft. He's an RFA.

LAK should have already done their homework on this, so not sure how that's even an issue.

Maybe this trade gets done post-draft

Why would LA even bother looking at Dubois if they couldn't talk contract first? Why waste days negotiating a deal and then find out Dubois wants 11 mil to sign there when they could have ued that time to make other deals.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

Sounds like Hughes won’t pony up.

I get it, but feel like we could have bought PLD earlier in the process.

 

[waitin425]

Chris Johnston update as well:

View attachment 721342

I love this if true man. I f***ing love Hughes. Giant nuts on that man. Holding firm.

 

[ReHabs]

Sounds like Hughes won’t pony up.

I get it, but feel like we could have bought PLD earlier in the process.

It better be a case of Prices Are Too High -- like, actually too high. Otherwise, it looks like we have another GM who has to 'win' all his trades. I doubt it though. The price might actually be too high, in which case stay firm.

But that doomsday scenario aside, another possibility is that Brisson is leaking some of this to push Hughes to pony up and cool down the link between WPG and LAK. Silver lining: the longer Vilardi has to think about WPG the less likely it is he'll commit to staying there.

 

[26Mats]

Sounds like Hughes won’t pony up.

I get it, but feel like we could have bought PLD earlier in the process.

Reports were Winnipeg asked for Dach. Hughes said no. Hughes countered with a deal around Anderson and Dvorak. Winnipeg said no.

Honestly, I don't think Winnipeg had much of an appetite to move below a Dach type of return that early in the process. Vilardi + is the type of return they were hoping to get, I suspect.

 

[Belial]

Sounds like Hughes won’t pony up.

I get it, but feel like we could have bought PLD earlier in the process.

Apparently, they tried last summer to get him also but the price was too high, and it seems like the price is too high still in HuGo's mind.

 

[Andy]

 

[Koivu11]

It’s what I’ve been saying … if PLD wants MTL it will be MTL. He holds all the cards.

I just don’t get why he couldn’t wait a year to be free to sign wherever he wants.

 

[salbutera]

Sounds like Hughes won’t pony up.

I get it, but feel like we could have bought PLD earlier in the process.

Also sounds to me as if Chevaldayof is desperately trying to get HuGo to bend, hence leaking the LAK info.

I’m very curious of the under the table / back room dialogue that has been / is going on with PLD/Habs, and how it’s being done circumventing tampering rules

The game of chicken is ON….

I just don’t get why he couldn’t wait a year to be free to sign wherever he wants.

Because an 8-year deal now takes him to 32 at completion & he can conceivably look for a 5-6 year deal to end his career (assuming good health etc.). He won’t get that extra 1-2 years if it projects to age 40 but could for age 38

Players career is short every year of NHL contract is important.

 

[Habaneros]

Sounds like Hughes won’t pony up.

I get it, but feel like we could have bought PLD earlier in the process.

You can't blame Hughes for that stance.The balls in PLD's court,his way
to Montreal is 95% paved...just 82 more miles away as a worse case.

When you're talking deals of 60-80-90 million , taking the money today or
waiting 1 more season and take 60-80-90 million.

What happens if you wait , and have a career ending injury this season..you lose big time.
It's a gamble for sure...

 

[waitin425]

Reports were Winnipeg asked for Dach. Hughes said no. Hughes countered with a deal around Anderson and Dvorak. Winnipeg said no.

Honestly, I don't think Winnipeg had much of an appetite to move below a Dach type of return that early in the process. Vilardi + is the type of return they were hoping to get, I suspect.

Until PLD says a big FU to Winnipeg.

My god he has them bent.

 

[ReHabs]

Seems suspiciously predictable. The kind of offer you'd read fans making. I don't trust Dreger.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

Sounds like Hughes won’t pony up.

I get it, but feel like we could have bought PLD earlier in the process.

How? Hughes has presumably put his best offer on the table. It will not change so the Jets will only take it when they decide they aren't going to get a better offer and Dubois to sign.

 

[ReHabs]

Until PLD says a big FU to Winnipeg.

My god he has them bent.

Imagine if PLD blows the trade up. That would be hilarious.

 

[salbutera]

How? Hughes has presumably put his best offer on the table. It will not change so the Jets will only take it when they decide they aren't going to get a better offer and Dubois to sign.

Is it truly HuGo’s BAFO? Or was HuGo’s offer simply a “we’re not bidding against ourselves” offer?