Post-Game Talk: ITS OVER- Did we make a huge mistake on Pierre-Luc Dubois Thread?

[Rapala]

I never understood why we have to factor in other teams mistakes when it comes to salary. Neither Hertl nor Barzal are worth 9 million dollars. When HuGo negotiates there is no reason he wouldn't bring this up. People keep forgetting this main point which I constantly argued with the Caufield dossier. The market here is determined by our management period. The thing we all need to look at is how much will Dubois be worth to The Montreal Canadiens? My best guess is not more than our Captain which was what I also believed in Caufield's case.

 

[Sorinth]

Fair or not Dubois's cap hit is probably going to be effected by the trade price. The more we give up in a trade the less we will want to give out in dollars on the contract, and the inverse is also true. If Dubois can be talked into say 7m caphit then I'd be much more willing to give Winnipeg a better deal.

 

[MolleSon]

Dubois isnt in the the same situation as Suzuki and CC. Dubois will start his 8th year in the league in 23-24. He"s entering his prime years and those years are UFA. They're worth more than RFA years. I'm sure Suzuki and CC and the players will understand that because thats exactlky what they will be looking for down the road in their carreer

But there's a limit I'm willing to pay, also considering that we will have to give to get him. 8,5m is my absolute max. Over that, its a no for me.

As for what we give, I trust Hugues. We're not in the Bargain years anymore. There's a plan and whatever Hugues does, he'll follow the plan. Yes there will be mistakes, bad decisions, etc but on the overall run, we will be a competitive team in a couple years.

 

[Vachon23]

I could do 8x8 I guess. With potential endorsements and all he'd stand to make a lot more anyway, He's a handsome young local guy, so you know he'll probably get quite a few TV spots for Subway, McDonald's and whatnots. I'd try and get it as front loaded as possible though, just to be safe.

Le McDubois is ready

 

[Adam Michaels]

It doesn't matter whether they are at the same level now because the context around the signing matters. Suzuki signed his deal after that SC run, and yeah Price was the biggest reason but Suzuki still went up against other teams top guys and came out looking good. And that's on top of his previous year where he also went up against star centers and looked good. Dubois's playoffs haven't looked anywhere near as good even if there have been a few good moments.

And again Suuki wasn't signed as a 60-70 point player he was signed as 60-70 point player who could potentially be a PPG player. The context for Dubois is a player whose production has mostly plateaued, his production has been stable in that a 60-70 point range for a number of years now, there's very little paying for potential with his contract.

So there are factors that push Dubois into having a higher salary and factors that push him into having a lower one.

It was actually Danault going up against the other teams' top guys. Not that Suzuki was completely insulated. He deserves a lot of credit for being Montreal's top player those playoffs and he didn't go up against a bunch of 3rd-4th line players those playoffs. But it was Danault going up against Matthews, Scheifele, Stephenson & Point and their linemates. And that did create room for Suzuki to be as effective as he was.

Also, when Suzuki was signed, he was a 40-point player with the potential to be a 60-70+ point player and possibly a PPG player down the road. He hit 60 points after he signed his new deal (even though he was still technically in the final year of his ELC).


Regardin PLD plateauing as a 60+ point player, that could be the case. But this past year, he was on pace to have a 30-goal, 71-point season (he had 27 goals and 63 pts in 73 GP). He had a career year last year with 63 pts, but he was on his way to having an even better season, but he missed some time to injury. So he still has room to do even more.

 

[Vachon23]

It was actually Danault going up against the other teams' top guys. Not that Suzuki was completely insulated. He deserves a lot of credit for being Montreal's top player those playoffs and he didn't go up against a bunch of 3rd-4th line players those playoffs. But it was Danault going up against Matthews, Scheifele, Stephenson & Point and their linemates. And that did create room for Suzuki to be as effective as he was.

Also, when Suzuki was signed, he was a 40-point player with the potential to be a 60-70+ point player and possibly a PPG player down the road. He hit 60 points after he signed his new deal (even though he was still technically in the final year of his ELC).


Regardin PLD plateauing as a 60+ point player, that could be the case. But this past year, he was on pace to have a 30-goal, 71-point season (he had 27 goals and 63 pts in 73 GP). So he was well on his way to having a career year, but he missed some time to injury. So he still has room to do even more.

And he was on his way for a PPG season before that injuries. An injury that he played on when he return to be sure that the Jets made the playoffs

 

[dinodebino]

I don’t doubt our buddy @Vachon23 , (now I want to know who he really is and why he hangs out at the Q draft) so in that perspective I don’t see Mtl caving in to Winterpeg’s requirement for a good trade to happen, unless Mtl finds a third party team to dance with.

 

[Vachon23]

I don’t doubt our buddy @Vachon23 , (now I want to know who he really is and why he hangs out at the Q draft) so in that perspective I don’t see Mtl caving in to Winterpeg’s requirement for a good trade to happen, unless Mtl finds a third party team to dance with.

PM

 

[Adam Michaels]

And he was on his way for a PPG season before that injuries. An injury that he played on when he return to be sure that the Jets made the playoffs

Correct.

He got hurt and missed about 2 weeks in early March. At that point, he had 24 goals and 55 pts in 61 GP. He was on pace for 32 goals and 74pts.

When he came back 2 weeks later, still not at 100%, he put up 8 pts in 12 GP to end the season.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Correct.

He got hurt and missed about 2 weeks in early March. At that point, he had 24 goals and 55 pts in 61 GP. He was on pace for 32 goals and 74pts.

When he came back 2 weeks later, still not at 100%, he put up 8 pts in 12 GP to end the season.

Worth pointing out that Dubois' struggles also came well before he missed time (January). He went from pacing around 90 points to almost completely disappearing offensively. Its also not the first season that that has happened, it was the same case last season, he was a non-factor his entire first season in Winnipeg and was very hot and cold his last full season in Columbus. Which isn't a deal breaker, but unlike a guy like Suzuki Dubois hasn't been on an island, he's played with some very good players.

He's also more reliant on the PP for production, on a team with lots of PP weapons. Montreal isn't there yet.

 

[BLONG7]

It was actually Danault going up against the other teams' top guys. Not that Suzuki was completely insulated. He deserves a lot of credit for being Montreal's top player those playoffs and he didn't go up against a bunch of 3rd-4th line players those playoffs. But it was Danault going up against Matthews, Scheifele, Stephenson & Point and their linemates. And that did create room for Suzuki to be as effective as he was.

Also, when Suzuki was signed, he was a 40-point player with the potential to be a 60-70+ point player and possibly a PPG player down the road. He hit 60 points after he signed his new deal (even though he was still technically in the final year of his ELC).


Regardin PLD plateauing as a 60+ point player, that could be the case. But this past year, he was on pace to have a 30-goal, 71-point season (he had 27 goals and 63 pts in 73 GP). He had a career year last year with 63 pts, but he was on his way to having an even better season, but he missed some time to injury. So he still has room to do even more.

Danault has been gone for 2 years...................pretty sure Nick has been getting tougher matchups.
Once we get our PP straitened out, Suzuki and CC are gonna get points!!
With any luck maybe PLD is on that same PP unit....his career avg PPG is producing 57 points, and should get more as he hits his peak years

 

[BaseballCoach]

PLD camps knows that for sure

So did Caufield camp. Dubois should not be paid more than Suzuki and Caufield.

Leave cap room for one or two superstars.

 

[Vachon23]

Danault has been gone for 2 years...................pretty sure Nick has been getting tougher matchups.
Once we get our PP straitened out, Suzuki and CC are gonna get points!!
With any luck maybe PLD is on that same PP unit....his career avg PPG is producing 57 points, and should get more as he hits his peak years

Yes but Danault was here when we went to the SC final and he was the one facing the top units

And yes PLD would bring something to our PP that we don't have: A net presence

 

[Adam Michaels]

Danault has been gone for 2 years...................pretty sure Nick has been getting tougher matchups.
Once we get our PP straitened out, Suzuki and CC are gonna get points!!
With any luck maybe PLD is on that same PP unit....his career avg PPG is producing 57 points, and should get more as he hits his peak years

We were talking about the run to the Stanley Cup Final. Not after Danault left.

And as @Vachon23 mentioned, one thing PLD does real well is go to the front of the net and pick up a lot of garbage goals. A guy his size with the hands, he can definitely help bring a presence on the PP that we usually had smaller players play (Gallagher more specifically).

 

[Gillings]

Hertl just finished his 1st year on his newly signed 8 year contract. He signed his in March 2022. Barzal signed in October 2022. There's like 6 month difference, and was just last year.

I can see a slight raise on Hertl, which is why I suggested $8.25m. But, Barzal has at least an 80+ point season in his career which PLD does not. Offensively, he matches quite well with Hertl.

There's no way I want PLD at $9m. $8.2m-$8.3m is absolute max that he should get.

Im never signing him to an 8 year contract. Guys like cole and suzuki, sure! But for me, unless PLD has some sort of awakening and becomes part of our core. Im doing 2-3 years at a time MAX.

 

[Adam Michaels]

We still don't even know if we're getting him. I'm going to just assume no until it happens at this point

So boring.

 

[Vachon23]

I think everyone knows that Pierre-Luc Dubois won't be a saviour

But he's a really good player that fit the same groupe of age of our core players and how many players of that caliber have wanted to play in MTL in the past 25 years ? That's something that need to be take in considerations, we probably won't have that opportunity again to sign a long-term deal to a player of PLD caliber.

Im never signing him to an 8 year contract. Guys like cole and suzuki, sure! But for me, unless PLD has some sort of awakening and becomes part of our core. Im doing 2-3 years at a time MAX.

Why ? PLD is only 1 year older then Suzuki

 

[Richiebottles]

36 Minute mark.

Sounds like LA will take a run at PLD.

 

[EveryDay]

36 Minute mark.

Sounds like LA will take a run at PLD.

It doesn't make sense, they should focus on Helleybuck.....

 

[Runner77]

PM

@dinodebino — don’t PM him, whatever you tell him will end up on Twitter!

 

[Vachon23]

36 Minute mark.

Sounds like LA will take a run at PLD.

I heard that somewhere

 

[Gillings]

I think everyone knows that Pierre-Luc Dubois won't be a saviour

But he's a really good player that fit the same groupe of age of our core players and how many players of that caliber have wanted to play in MTL in the past 25 years ? That's something that need to be take in considerations, we probably won't have that opportunity again to sign a long-term deal to a player of PLD caliber.


Why ? PLD is only 1 year older then Suzuki

So? I don't see a heart and soul player. That's why. Forgive me but is all you guys see is a french guy who can score 60 points a year and is big? Is that worth 8 years at 8million plus?

Id say 4 years at 6.25 im not going over that. If he breaks out than awesome, if not then he's off our hands at 28 and can sign elsewhere when we need the money for another star player we draft.

 

[Richiebottles]

It doesn't make sense, they should focus on Helleybuck.....

I actually think this is probably Chevy trying to drive up the price on PLD.

It's easy for him to say 'Leak that LA is interested to other teams' and he could attempt to create a market.

Keep in mind that it was speculation that they 'MAY' be interested. There is confirmation that the Habs contact WPG right after the season.

 

[Gillings]

I heard that somewhere

GOOD!

 

[Vachon23]

So? I don't see a heart and soul player. That's why. Forgive me but is all you guys see is a french guy who can score 60 points a year and is big? Is that worth 8 years at 8million plus?

Id say 4 years at 6.25 im not going over that. If he breaks out than awesome, if not then he's off our hands at 28 and can sign elsewhere when we need the money for another star player we draft.

What I see is a big PF who can put 70 pts + that can play both LW/C (Dach and Suzuki are both RH center) U25 yrs

That's not type of player that is available each year and even less a player that is interested in playing in MTL