Post-Game Talk: ITS OVER- Did we make a huge mistake on Pierre-Luc Dubois Thread?

[MarkovsKnee]

Long term only


Difference was the timing of the signing

Barzal was sign less then 1 year ago

Hertl just finished his 1st year on his newly signed 8 year contract. He signed his in March 2022. Barzal signed in October 2022. There's like 6 month difference, and was just last year.

I can see a slight raise on Hertl, which is why I suggested $8.25m. But, Barzal has at least an 80+ point season in his career which PLD does not. Offensively, he matches quite well with Hertl.

There's no way I want PLD at $9m. $8.2m-$8.3m is absolute max that he should get.

 

[Vachon23]

Hertl just finished his 1st year on his newly signed 8 year contract. He signed his in March 2022. Barzal signed in October 2022. There's like 6 month difference, and was just last year.

I can see a slight raise on Hertl, which is why I suggested $8.25m. But, Barzal has at least an 80+ point season in his career which PLD does not. Offensively, he matches quite well with Hertl.

There's no way I want PLD at $9m. $8.2m-$8.3m is absolute max that he should get.

I do agree with you, I personally don't want PLD at more then 8.5m

 

[BaseballCoach]

#1 - PLD ain't signing for $5 mill
#2 - This draft pool of C's look stellar, especially in the Top 5
#3 - We can WAIT 1 year and see if this crap about PLD wanting to sign in MTL is true

#1 - of course not

#2 - I'm not as excited, after Fantilli, I don't see any clear uber-talented C. And Michkov is a big risk while not even being a center. So while the 5th OA for 7 years of PLD AT $5 MILLION isn't so terrible, it is also never happening (see point 1)

So now re point #3 - there is something about this line of thought that seems inappropriate..Those who make this argument appear to me to exhibiting scars from past years, and you can't make decisions as a GM that way.

We seem to be lucky with Dubois in that Montreal is on his acceptable city list, unlike many others we may think of today or thought of in the past. However no 24-25 year old 60-ish point player is going to insist to play in one and only one town, and it just happens to be your town. The vitriol and disrespect being sent his way is concerning to me. For example, there is no reason to think he is similar to Jonathan Drouin. Dubois has proven way more in 6 years than Drouin proved in his first three. Dubois even proved way more comparing first three years to first three years.

Now, if it turns out that Hughes is not willing to give this guy $8.5-$9.0M long-term, and Dubois signs elsewhere, it doesn't mean Dubois is crap or that his statement that he would be happy to play in Montreal is crap. It just means that our GM has decided he is not a good fit for us at that salary and with the roster we have. I'm ok with getting Dubois at a certain cap hit, while at the same time also ok with not getting him becuase we go in another direction.

No hard feelings either way.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Hertl just finished his 1st year on his newly signed 8 year contract. He signed his in March 2022. Barzal signed in October 2022. There's like 6 month difference, and was just last year.

I can see a slight raise on Hertl, which is why I suggested $8.25m. But, Barzal has at least an 80+ point season in his career which PLD does not. Offensively, he matches quite well with Hertl.

There's no way I want PLD at $9m. $8.2m-$8.3m is absolute max that he should get.

I'm not there at anything more than Suzuki hit.

I'm not sure he is better than Hertl and at any rate, I would not have done the Hertl extension at that price, and certainly not traded assets to get him at that price.

 

[sandviper]

We aren’t talking about that.. I was referring to the infamous shift in Columbus. Although the entitlement seems to still be there. There’s a right way and a wrong way to go about situations like that. Quitting in the middle of a game to get your way should be established as wrong no matter what the level is. I’ll leave it at that.

I get having a shit boss, or in this case a coach you hate, makes going to work hard. I get he asked for a trade and CBJ didn’t accommodate. However, end of the day, you are under contract and a professional. This isn’t a third tier hockey league or juniors also… this is the NHL.

I haven’t paid much attention to the news specifically on that shift the following day/weeks, but has PLD ever actually owned it and spoke on it? If he hasn’t, he should have. If he has, I would be more inclined to let it go but it’d still be a reason for concern for me.

 

[BLONG7]

I have been here maybe 20 years and legit don’t even know what the main board is.

If you go, be prepared for Hab hater craziness, that said, it can also be a ton of good laughs too......

 

[BarracudaMtl]

Where did it come from that PLD wants a salary of 9M+ ?
Maybe he will accept less to sign long term with MTL, we don't really know that.
Initially, I was ok with making a trade to go get him, as the price shouldn't be that high. Kent always had the option of hoping it would be UFA.
Now that PLD forced his hand and handed over a list of teams he can sign with long term , it changed the landscape. Now Kent doesn't have that leverage.....
The only way he pays something decent for PLD is knowing he is going to sign below the SUZUKI contract.

 

[BergevinBurner]

Where did it come from that PLD wants a salary of 9M+ ?
Maybe he will accept less to sign long term with MTL, we don't really know that.

I believe it came from on article on the Athletic by Arpon Basu. In it he essentially said that Montreal would have to pay more money to land Dubois than other teams would because Dubois would supposedly be willing to take a "discount" to sign with a contender. But he wouldn't take one to sign with a rebuilding team, like Montreal.

 

[Vachon23]

I'm not there at anything more than Suzuki hit.

I'm not sure he is better than Hertl and at any rate, I would not have done the Hertl extension at that price, and certainly not traded assets to get him at that price.

He’s gonna cost more then Suzuki/Caufield because we would pay his UFA years what cost more then RFA years

 

[DAChampion]

He’s gonna cost more then Suzuki/Caufield because we would pay his UFA years what cost more then RFA years

Also there's cap inflation.

 

[BaseballCoach]

He’s gonna cost more then Suzuki/Caufield because we would pay his UFA years what cost more then RFA years

OK, but then I don't want hium after all.

The whole UFA years thing is less important these days, when RFAs on second contracts get big dough, and also when ages 31-32 are often less productive years for a forward, especially those with tons of miles on them because they started at 18 or 19 or even 20.

For me, Suzuki got a premium for leadership, and Caufield got one because goals are worth more than points.

Dubois is a $7.5M-ish player for me. Max for me is Caufield's hit.

 

[Vachon23]

OK, but then I don't want hium after all.

The whole UFA years thing is less imprtant these days, when RFAs on secnd contracts gdt big dough,m and also when ages 31-32 are often less productive years for a forward, especially tose with tons of miles on them because they tarted at 18 or 19 or even 20.

For me, Suzuki got a premium for leadership, and Caufield got one because goals are worth more thna points.

Dubois is a $7.5M-ish player for me. Max for me is Caufield's hit.

The UFA years are still very important though, that’s why Anderson got 5.5m and Barzal 9m.

I understand your point though

 

[nhlfan9191]

If you go, be prepared for Hab hater craziness, that said, it can also be a ton of good laughs too......

I don’t post in there often and after a few days of reading Jets fans posts about the PLD trade, I know why I avoid it. It’s funny how they dump on Dach thinking they can convince another teams fanbase that have watched a player an entire year they have a turd when they’re clearly desperate for him. At the same time, you can point out in two seconds they’re too lazy to even properly research who they’re talking about. It’s also comical how a sign and trade on an expiring player now apparently counts the same as trading a player whose fully locked up.

 

[Sorinth]

He’s gonna cost more then Suzuki/Caufield because we would pay his UFA years what cost more then RFA years

On the other hand he doesn't have as good a reputation as Caufield and Suzuki especially in terms of playoffs and in Dubois's case the contract is more about paying for what you've done instead of paying for what you might do compared to those other two.

 

[Adam Michaels]

Hertl just finished his 1st year on his newly signed 8 year contract. He signed his in March 2022. Barzal signed in October 2022. There's like 6 month difference, and was just last year.

I can see a slight raise on Hertl, which is why I suggested $8.25m. But, Barzal has at least an 80+ point season in his career which PLD does not. Offensively, he matches quite well with Hertl.

There's no way I want PLD at $9m. $8.2m-$8.3m is absolute max that he should get.

This is exactly where I find is the ideal spot. We should expect that if PLD is traded to Montreal, that his contract will be higher than both Caufield and Suzuki. If it isn't, it's a big bonus. But no one should expect him to come in at a lower cap hit than Suzuki.

And making just $500K more than Suzuki ($8.375M) would be a real good spot. And with the cap going up over the next few years the way it's projected to, PLD at a shade under $8.4M will be a good deal. That doesn't handcuff the team in the slightest.

You don't hand the guy a blank check. You don't bring him in to sign him at $9M. But I won't deprive myself of adding a really good player because he won't accept making less than Caufield and Suzuki, as long as it won't be by more than $500K.

 

[Vachon23]

On the other hand he doesn't have as good a reputation as Caufield and Suzuki especially in terms of playoffs and in Dubois's case the contract is more about paying for what you've done instead of paying for what you might do compared to those other two.

He does have the same reputation and he’s view as the same caliber of Suzuki

PLD was awesome with CBJ during the playoffs

 

[Sorinth]

He does have the same reputation and he’s view as the same caliber of Suzuki

PLD was awesome with CBJ during the playoffs

He really doesn't. Beyond the whole attitude issues that have followed Dubois everywhere which aren't there for Suzuki, Suzuki was a major part of taking the team to the SC Finals which is far more impressive then having 1 good series.

 

[Vachon23]

He really doesn't. Beyond the whole attitude issues that have followed Dubois everywhere which aren't there for Suzuki, Suzuki was a major part of taking the team to the SC Finals which is far more impressive then having 1 good series.

You're probably right for the attitude

But where talking about the same level of player, Carey Price was the reason we made it to the SC Final even if Suzuki had a good role in that final

 

[Sorinth]

You're probably right for the attitude

But where talking about the same level of player, Carey Price was the reason we made it to the SC Final even if Suzuki had a good role in that final

It doesn't matter whether they are at the same level now because the context around the signing matters. Suzuki signed his deal after that SC run, and yeah Price was the biggest reason but Suzuki still went up against other teams top guys and came out looking good. And that's on top of his previous year where he also went up against star centers and looked good. Dubois's playoffs haven't looked anywhere near as good even if there have been a few good moments.

And again Suuki wasn't signed as a 60-70 point player he was signed as 60-70 point player who could potentially be a PPG player. The context for Dubois is a player whose production has mostly plateaued, his production has been stable in that a 60-70 point range for a number of years now, there's very little paying for potential with his contract.

So there are factors that push Dubois into having a higher salary and factors that push him into having a lower one.

 

[Revansky]

I wouldn't mind signing him between 7.5 and 8 M$ on a 7-8 years contract but i'm scare of the cost of acquisition. What would WPG want from us that makes sense for them ?

 

[Vachon23]

It doesn't matter whether they are at the same level now because the context around the signing matters. Suzuki signed his deal after that SC run, and yeah Price was the biggest reason but Suzuki still went up against other teams top guys and came out looking good. And that's on top of his previous year where he also went up against star centers and looked good. Dubois's playoffs haven't looked anywhere near as good even if there have been a few good moments.

And again Suuki wasn't signed as a 60-70 point player he was signed as 60-70 point player who could potentially be a PPG player. The context for Dubois is a player whose production has mostly plateaued, his production has been stable in that a 60-70 point range for a number of years now, there's very little paying for potential with his contract.

So there are factors that push Dubois into having a higher salary and factors that push him into having a lower one.

PLD had a 70 pts season if you put it on 82 games and he was a PPG before he was injured. He definitely can be a 70 pts and + players

And you buying way more UFA years with PLD then you where with Suzuki what need to be considered

 

[Nico Cauzuki]

For sure Dubois will get more then Suzuki and Caufield because of the UFA years we're buying but hopefully its less then 8.5 ( if we trade for him )

 

[Vachon23]

8 years 68m (8.5 AAV)

Would be the best offer I would do to PLD

 

[Colezuki]

We still don't even know if we're getting him. I'm going to just assume no until it happens at this point

 

[Pompeius Magnus]

I could do 8x8 I guess. With potential endorsements and all he'd stand to make a lot more anyway, He's a handsome young local guy, so you know he'll probably get quite a few TV spots for Subway, McDonald's and whatnots. I'd try and get it as front loaded as possible though, just to be safe.