Post-Game Talk: ITS OVER- Did we make a huge mistake on Pierre-Luc Dubois Thread?

[Andrei79]

What context? They all failed to produce to expectations for a period of time.

The expectations of the worst and 5th worst team in the league ?

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

The expectations of the worst and 5th worst team in the league ?

You realize those awful sequences by Caufield and Suzuki are a reason why the habs finished last and 5th last? Also, why would the team position in the standings matter? If Dubois had 17 pts in his last 41 games playing for a bottom 10 team, you would have been fine with his production?

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

Do you feel the contexts are the same ? Or do I have to explain something that seems this obvious ?

You understand Suzuki had that context and Caufield had that context but PLD have no context?
Do you have an idea what PLD had to endure under Tortz regime?
Btw PLD didn't quit on Winnipeg. He just don't want to keep on that team and he's not the only one. This team and this city is not attractive. And oh, this is also a context.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

You realize those awful sequences by Caufield and Suzuki are a reason why the habs finished last and 5th last? Also, why would the team position in the standings matter? If Dubois had 17 pts in his last 41 games playing for a bottom 10 team, you would have been fine with his production?

Exactly ! If this team was last it was because this team didn't have a leader ala Mark Messier or Crosby. Suzuki is a bottom #1 center in the league and Caufield is useless when he check his player. He's good only in offence, he's zero in back-checking. Habs suffered from not having Price, no Weber and no Danault.

 

[BaseballCoach]

PLD will have to take a pay cut to be a hab

He makes $6.0M now. Why should he have to take a pay cut?

Like are you demanding he sign for $5.8M? 5.5M? or even $5.0M??

 

[Andrei79]

You realize those awful sequences by Caufield and Suzuki are a reason why the habs finished last and 5th last?

The reasons why the Habs finished last and bottom 5 were numerous and systematic. Aside from that, nobody would rely on a winger with 10 regular season games of NHL experience or blame them for a bottom finish, especially when considering the state of the coaching and team cohesion. If anything, those two often kept a barren team afloat.

Also, as we're talking about context, we already have a history with each player. We saw how Suzuki and Caufield responded as U23s in high stakes games. We saw Suzuki be the best forward on his team as a rookie in the post-season. We know he was excellent during that cup run. He was also a complete monster in the memorial cup playoffs, with multiple game 7 wins. It was epic. Coming back from 1-3 and 0-3 deficits was insane- 17 points in 7 elimination games, winning the MVP! There's no history there. No history of quitting his last game with the Blue Jackets or games like that game 5. No agent coming out that another team would be somewhere he'd be interested in playing. How often do you see that ? Are you not the least bit concerned ?

Also, why would the team position in the standings matter?

I think it matters quite a bit.

That's your definition of quitting on your team.. a coldstreak after being hurt? Lol

The drop in production started weeks before he missed games. But let's say you ignore that injury or we're fully on board with explaining his production with it. Are you not concerned by that game 5 after what happened in Columbus ? You know, this is the whole point, there are red flags here. The initial post was answering to someone comparing PLD going elsewhere to Bergevins worst trade mistakes, when there are issues with this player that should at least be considered.

 

[Destopcorner]

Deleted.

 

[Destopcorner]

The reasons why the Habs finished last and bottom 5 are numerous. Nobody would rely on a winger with 10 regular season games of NHL experience or blame them for a bottom finish, especially when considering the state of the coaching and team cohesion. If anything, those two often kept a barren team afloat.

Also, as we're talking about context, we already have a history with each player. We saw how Suzuki and Caufield responded as U23s in high stakes games. We saw Suzuki be the best forward on his team as a rookie in the post-season. We know he was excellent during that cup run. He was also a complete monster in the memorial cup playoffs, with multiple game 7 wins. It was epic. Coming back from 1-3 and 0-3 deficits was insane- 17 points in 7 elimination games, winning the MVP! There's no history there. No history of quitting his last game with the Blue Jackets or games like that game 5. No agent coming out that another team would be somewhere he'd be interested in playing. How often do you see that ? Are you not the least bit concerned ?



I think it matters quite a bit.


The drop in production started weeks before he missed games. But let's say you ignore that injury or we're fully on board with explaining his production with it. Are you not concerned by that game 5 after what happened in Columbus ? You know, this is the whole point, there are red flags here. The initial post was answering someone comparing PLD going elsewhere to Bergevins worst trade mistakes, when there are multiple issues with this player.

Everyone knows Torts is an asshole, many players wanted out and got out. I watched every Winnipeg game these playoffs and singleing out game 5 as quitting is non sense.

Context also says he stop playing with Connor for many of those 41 games. Coldstreak happens... and it says a lot about his first 30 game right? Still finish with over 60 points in 70 games.

 

[nhlfan9191]

Scriptor and Shinichi answered good posts but I would say you are the one that describe PLD as a lazy forward, no physical presence at all, a quitter and all the negative you can invent or exagerate. Any hockey fan with a brain would love to have PLD in his team. Not wanting him at any cost is a psycho case. Habs have been a team of smurfs for decades and we all saw what happened in PO. That Habs team didn't made the PO or got swipe pretty fast by teams who played like men or were built like man. PLD doesn't have to play exactly like Tkachuk to succeed. He uses his body well enough and he is not in the minus too much like smallish players who can't check their player.

I don't want to exagerate how PLD is playing, I see him as a steady 60 pts player and maybe he could reach 75 pts with the good combo of wingers. He's no superstar but just a good player, the type we don't have, except Dach. A team never have too much of that type of player. Monahan who is somehow similar did a good difference last year (when he was playing) and no poster here complained about him. PLD is younger and built about the same. So what's the problem? You don't want a 6'4" player, 24 yrs old, not injured? You don't want to see what he will do in this team? You don't want him because he's not McDavid? You want to wait for better in 4 or 8 years? 12 years? 100 years? You don't think it's about time we change our losing team culture and switch to a team trying to win game after game?

He is exactly what we need and he's available now. There is nobody better on the table, so why being fussy about him? For what reason? Maybe you're not a real fan of the Habs. You're a party breaker, you want to stay in your negative inner circle. Sorry if I'm rude but your arguments and your red flags are deeply annoying.

Even Stephane Waite who knows hockey and who is the biggest fan of Price in the medias said PLD is an option that fits perfectly for the Habs. He said Habs can't miss him. PLD going in another team would be an huge disapointment and a mistake comparable to the worst trades Bergevin did.

I didn’t describe him as a “lazy forward.” I never defectives him as any of the things you have said. I said the fangirls like you are describing him as something he’s not. Constantly mentioning his height like he’s a giant on the ice which is not the way he plays. And you saying I’m not a fan of the team because I won’t write a blank cheque to a mediocre player is rich. You spent years defending Bergevin and now you’re doing the same with another potential French Canadian. Just admit this has nothing to do with ability. You have an agenda. PLD is a bum that has melted several seasons in a row when the games have mattered. Why would we pay a big acquisition fee both threw trade and financially for him when we don’t have too?

 

[Andrei79]

Everyone knows Torts is an asshole, many players wanted out and got out. I watched every Winnipeg game these playoffs and singleing out game 5 as quitting on em is non sense.

Context also says he stop playing with Connor for many of those 41 games. Coldstreak happens... and it says a lot about his first 30 game right? Still finish with over 60 points in 70 games.

There's no excuse for that game against the Lightning. He's a professional hockey player with the expectations that come with it. I'm not fine with that game 5 either. If you are, then we'll just agree to disagree. They went hard on him in Winnipeg, likely he was the lightning rod for much of the anger due to the circumstances, but there was a basis to that criticism.

Also, was his production tied to Connor ? I mean, what's the argument there ? That he takes a huge drop if he's not paired with a star winger ? Half the season and down the stretch on a competitive team, I mean it's a long time. I also agree that there's no denying his skill and talent. With that size he's a tantalizing add for this team and would fit the roster perfectly. If he plays at a good pace over a season, he's a ppg 30-40 goal forward, at 6'3". But, it's not a failure on managements part equating to the worst trades of the last decade from this team if they fail to acquire him, which was the initial post. There are red flags to consider and they need to do their due diligence before possibly investing in him for 9 years.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

I didn’t describe him as a “lazy forward.” I said the fangirls like you are describing him as something he’s not. Constantly mentioning his height like he’s a giant on the ice which is not the way he plays. And you saying I’m not a fan of the team because I won’t write a blank cheque to a mediocre player is rich. You spent years defending Bergevin and now you’re doing the same with another potential French Canadian. Just admit this has nothing to do with ability. You have an agenda. PLD is a bum that has melted several seasons in a row when the games have mattered. Why would we pay a big acquisition fee both threw trade and financially for him when we don’t have too?

A mediocre player ! This is totally ridiculous ! I repeat what you wrote : a mediocre player.

You have to admitt you are the one who is anti french player because he is a regular 60 pts player on mediocre team. His french origins have nothing to do, he is a proven 60 pts player even if he doesn't play his 82 games a year because of injuries. It's a torture to read such idiotics posts like yours. I don't have an agenda. You have an agenda. Any hockey fan with a brain would just jump and do anything to get an healthy 24 yrs old center with his 6'4" size and NHL experience. Not wanting him is the proof you have an agenda.

I didn't spend 6 years defending Bergevin. I was tempered about him. I always wrote he did good trades and bad ones. I hated him when he decided Gallagher was the motor of the Danault-Tatar-Gallagher line. When it was obvious Danault was doing a lot of things to help that line. I hated Bergevin when he didn't sign Danault, despite being great in the Toronto series, the Winnipeg serie and the Vegas serie. So you see, a quebecois (Bergevin) can act like an @SS-hole vs another quebecois (Danault). Today Danault is doing fine in LA, good for him, good for LA and good for his wingers (Arvidsson, Iafallo and Moore).

You are making a fool of yourself writing things like PLD is a bum. You have no idea who he is, you just come here vomit on a player you don't know and you don't like because you seems to hate anything that is french.

I am an hockey fan and I don't hate any player based on his origins. I'm not like you. I don't write this or this player is a bum like you do. You make all of us waste our time with your idiotic agenda. You are the one who wrote a mediocre player for 63 pts in 73 games and +5.

 

[nhlfan9191]

A mediocre player ! This is totally ridiculous ! I repeat what you wrote : a mediocre player.

You have to admitt you are the one who is anti french player because he is a regular 60 pts player on mediocre team. His french origins have nothing to do, he is a proven 60 pts player even if he doesn't play his 82 games a year because of injuries. It's a torture to read such idiotics posts like yours. I don't have an agenda. You have an agenda. Any hockey fan with a brain would just jump and do anything to get an healthy 24 yrs old center with his 6'4" size and NHL experience. Not wanting him is the proof you have an agenda.

I didn't spend 6 years defending Bergevin. I was tempered about him. I always wrote he did good trades and bad ones. I hated him when he decided Gallagher was the motor of the Danault-Tatar-Gallagher line. When it was obvious Danault was doing a lot of things to help that line. I hated Bergevin when he didn't sign Danault, despite being great in the Toronto series, the Winnipeg serie and the Vegas serie. So you see, a quebecois (Bergevin) can act like an @SS-hole vs another quebecois (Danault). Today Danault is doing fine in LA, good for him, good for LA and good for his wingers (Arvidsson, Iafallo and Moore).

You are making a fool of yourself writing things like PLD is a bum. You have no idea who he is, you just come here vomit on a player you don't know and you don't like because you seems to hate anything that is french.

I am an hockey fan and I don't hate any player based on his origins. I'm not like you. I don't write this or this player is a bum like you do. You make all of us waste our time with your idiotic agenda. You are the one who wrote a mediocre player for 63 pts in 77 games and +5.

He is a bum. He quit on one team and disappeared the last 3 seasons when the games mattered in Winnipeg. You say me bringing up his red flags is “annoying.” I’m simply bringing up an argument as to why committing absurd amounts of money in a market where he’ll be under a microscope is a mistake. But please, tell me how he’s 6’4 again like I haven’t heard it a million times from you already.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

imagine thinking Dubois will get 9m a year lmao
dude is worth 7.75m at max

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

He is a bum. He quit on one team and disappeared the last 3 seasons when the games mattered in Winnipeg. You say me bringing up his red flags is “annoying.” I’m simply bringing up an argument as to why committing absurd amounts of money in a market where he’ll be under a microscope is a mistake. But please, tell me how he’s 6’4 again like I haven’t heard it a million times from you already.

Are you the one you wrote he's a mediocre player? A player who did 63 pts in 73 games and +5?
And you also wrote he's a bum?
You are still here posting again?
You don't have the decency to leave this board?

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

The reasons why the Habs finished last and bottom 5 were numerous and systematic. Aside from that, nobody would rely on a winger with 10 regular season games of NHL experience or blame them for a bottom finish, especially when considering the state of the coaching and team cohesion. If anything, those two often kept a barren team afloat.

The team wasn't last or bottom 5 when their awful sequences happened. In fact, the timing was a lot worse than Dubois'.

When Suzuki had his awful stretch, the team was only a few points out of a playoff spot. That was the time he needed to step up, not step down.

Caufield had his bad stretch at the start of the season. The team had just gone to the cup finals, and there was a lot of optimism in the room. Expectations were high on Caufield, but he came in and played horribly, and led the team to their worst start in history.

Dubois's bad sequence came when the jets were top 3 in the West and comfortably in a playoff spot. That's far less bad timing.

Caufield and Suzuki look a lot more like 'quitters' with their timing than Dubois.

Also, where the hell did you get 17 pts in 41 games?

Dubois had 26 pts in his last 41 games.

Like you literally made up numbers to make Dubois look bad lmao.

26 pts in 41 is not even bad. It's a 52 pts pace.

Also, as we're talking about context, we already have a history with each player. We saw how Suzuki and Caufield responded as U23s in high stakes games. We saw Suzuki be the best forward on his team as a rookie in the post-season. We know he was excellent during that cup run. He was also a complete monster in the memorial cup playoffs, with multiple game 7 wins. It was epic. Coming back from 1-3 and 0-3 deficits was insane- 17 points in 7 elimination games, winning the MVP! There's no history there. No history of quitting his last game with the Blue Jackets or games like that game 5. No agent coming out that another team would be somewhere he'd be interested in playing. How often do you see that ? Are you not the least bit concerned ?

Are you going to pretend that Dubois didn't have dominant performances in the playoffs with the Blue Jackets?

 

[nhlfan9191]

Are you the one you wrote he's a mediocre player? A player who did 63 pts in 73 games and +5?
And you also wrote he's a bum?
You are still here posting again?
You don't have the decency to leave this board?

Why would I leave the board? This isn’t a PLD fan page on Reddit. This is a honest discussion on the player. If you can’t handle hearing things you don’t want too,, I’m not the one who should leave. If me bringing up valid points “annoys you” then you should look at yourself and reconsider what you’re actually trying to accomplish here. When I see red flags on a player, I’m going to voice my concern. I’m not going to leave because I might hurt your feelings or ruin your terrible used cars sales man pitch.

 

[Andrei79]

The team wasn't last or bottom 5 when their awful sequences happened. In fact, the timing was a lot worse than Dubois'.

When Suzuki had his awful stretch, the team was only a few points out of a playoff spot. That was the time he needed to step up, not step down.

Caufield had his bad stretch at the start of the season. The team had just gone to the cup finals, and there was a lot of optimism in the room. Expectations were high on Caufield, but he came in and played horribly, and led the team to their worst start in history.

Dubois's bad sequence came when the jets were top 3 in the West and comfortably in a playoff spot. That's far less bad timing.

Caufield and Suzuki look a lot more like 'quitters' with their timing than Dubois.

I mean, this has to be a joke. From the Caufield comment to the timing part about Suzuki. The team, playing way above its head, was still out of a playoff spot, the year after being the worst in the league. At its best, with Suzuki and Caufield playing out of their minds, it was still a bad team. The team is barren. Even if Caufield somehow scored 40 in his rookie year, it was still a bottom 5 team. Do you remember how many key players they lost after that cup run ? Who the coach was ? How far into summer they played for the cup finals? What are you arguing here ? The third leading scorer that year was Mike Hoffman. The second leading scorer this year had 38 points. There was no playoffs in sight for this team this year. You're creating a ridiculous narrative only to lose sight of my initial point - bringing up the red flags in regards to Dubois and a potential 9 year investment.

And then comparing this to a top 3 team that fell down hard into the standings to barely get into the playoffs by two points, only to be eliminated in the first round. And this, in your mind, is better timing ? The mental gymnastics there LOL. They were 1-2 losses away from a catastrophic second half on a team that wanted to compete.

Also, where the hell did you get 17 pts in 41 games?

Dubois had 26 pts in his last 41 games.

View attachment 715502

Like you literally made up numbers to make Dubois look bad lmao.

26 pts in 41 is not even bad. It's a 52 pts pace.

Yeah, I miscalculated the 15, put 17 and substracted as if he played 82 instead of 73, The stretch I was looking at was 15 in 32 - a 38 point pace.

Are you going to pretend that Dubois didn't have dominant performances in the playoffs with the Blue Jackets?

Yes, he was dominant his third year. I never said he never performed. I have to stress this once again: I'm concerned with the red flags. Quitting on his teams, playoff no shows in elimination games, his agent making that comment last summer - something you rarely see. I don't think he'd be an issue if things go his way, but what happens when they don't ? And, at some point they won't. What's going to be his reaction then ? It's concerning to me. Are you not concerned at all with a potential trade for assets and 9 year investment ?

 

[SlafySZN]

The team wasn't last or bottom 5 when their awful sequences happened. In fact, the timing was a lot worse than Dubois'.

When Suzuki had his awful stretch, the team was only a few points out of a playoff spot. That was the time he needed to step up, not step down.

Caufield had his bad stretch at the start of the season. The team had just gone to the cup finals, and there was a lot of optimism in the room. Expectations were high on Caufield, but he came in and played horribly, and led the team to their worst start in history.

Dubois's bad sequence came when the jets were top 3 in the West and comfortably in a playoff spot. That's far less bad timing.

Caufield and Suzuki look a lot more like 'quitters' with their timing than Dubois.

Also, where the hell did you get 17 pts in 41 games?

Dubois had 26 pts in his last 41 games.

View attachment 715502

Like you literally made up numbers to make Dubois look bad lmao.

26 pts in 41 is not even bad. It's a 52 pts pace.



Are you going to pretend that Dubois didn't have dominant performances in the playoffs with the Blue Jackets?

Lol, Caufield didn’t led the team to anything he was a 20 year old rookie, he wasn’t supposed to.

 

[Andrei79]

Lol, Caufield didn’t led the team to anything he was a 20 year old rookie, he wasn’t supposed to.

It is insane that this has to be explained. There was apparently a lot of optimism in a room that lost Weber and Price after a short summer. I mean, yeah, this is why the team was in shambles, came in completely flat, lost all of their preseason games and then their first five games - thanks to that optimism. Obviously, the rookie should have done more.

 

[SlafySZN]

It is insane that this has to be explained. There was apparently a lot of optimism in a room that lost Weber and Price after a short summer. I mean, yeah, this is why the team was in shambles, came in completely flat, lost all of their preseason games and then their first five games - thanks to that optimism. Obviously, the rookie should have done more.

Plus everyone in the room thought a 20 year old rookie was supposed to lead them to the playoffs lol all on Caufield!

But yeah, anyway i don’t get why some are so defensive of Dubois. He’s not alone on the jets so not the only one the blame but it’s true that he’s already shown he’s not really a guy that can lead your team.

 

[nhlfan9191]

It is insane that this has to be explained. There was apparently a lot of optimism in a room that lost Weber and Price after a short summer. I mean, yeah, this is why the team was in shambles, came in completely flat, lost all of their preseason games and then their first five games - thanks to that optimism. Obviously, the rookie should have done more.

It’s more concerning some fans are willing to dump on our own stars to hype up this overrated Jets player.

 

[Andrei79]

Plus everyone in the room thought a 20 year old rookie was supposed to lead them to the playoffs lol all on Caufield!

Clearly, he choked under pressure.

Not like the other guys. You know, the ones who were top 3 and crumbled down the stretch, only to barely get in by the skin of their teeth.

That was fine. In fact, that was great timing.

It’s more concerning some fans are willing to dump on our own stars to hype up this overrated Jets player.

Imagine having the gall to raise questions about a potential acquisition and 9 year tenure. On a team that's run almost all of their local guys out of town and had one of them suffer from insomnia and severe anxiety, just recently.

 

[Scriptor]

I feel Dach has a 100 point ceiling.

Doubt that. He'd need 80 to 85 assists to reach that level. Not happening, IMO.

 

[Beendair Donedat]

It’s always been in the Habs best interest to acquire him before he reaches UFA status, because 6’4, 220 lb 25 year old centers that score between 25-30 goals a year (was on pace for 40 before getting hurt last year), will have tons of teams throwing money at them, driving up the price - especially with the cap going up in the next couple years.

I’ve said it all along, it’s going to cost a piece that will hurt, and it’s likely either Barron or Harris if the Jets are wanting young cost controlled defensemen.

My offer would be:

To Winnipeg - 2023 1st round pick acquired from Florida, one of Barron/Harris and Christian Dvorak.

To Montreal - Pierre Luc Dubois, signed to a 8x8 deal. PLD gets slightly more than the dynamic duo, because you’re buying more UFA years.

Habs then draft Reinbacher at 5th overall, to shore up the right side on defense, grabbing an elite two way defender with size. Reinbacher seems like a perfect partner for Guhle in the not too distant future, and I’m willing to wait a year in development, for what looks to be a better all around defenseman than either Barron or Harris.

 

[SlafySZN]

It’s always been in the Habs best interest to acquire him before he reaches UFA status, because 6’4, 220 lb 25 year old centers that score between 25-30 goals a year (was on pace for 40 before getting hurt last year), will have tons of teams throwing money at them, driving up the price - especially with the cap going up in the next couple years.

I’ve said it all along, it’s going to cost a piece that will hurt, and it’s likely either Barron or Harris if the Jets are wanting young cost controlled defensemen.

My offer would be:

To Winnipeg - 2023 1st round pick acquired from Florida, one of Barron/Harris and Christian Dvorak.

To Montreal - Pierre Luc Dubois, signed to a 8x8 deal. PLD gets slightly more than the dynamic duo, because you’re buying more UFA years.

Habs then draft Reinbacher at 5th overall, to shore up the right side on defense, grabbing an elite two way defender with size. Reinbacher seems like a perfect partner for Guhle in the not too distant future, and I’m willing to wait a year in development, for what looks to be a better all around defenseman than either Barron or Harris.

Would be absolutely horrible.

Why reach for a defenceman when there’s tons of dman in next years draft and give Barron for a 60 pts player you’ll have to give a big contract to when you can just draft a potential elite forward and draft a maybe even better dman next year without giving up one of your only right handed defenceman prospect you just acquired a year ago.