Blue Jays Discussion: It's a bird, it's a plane, it's Kevin Pillar!

[theaub]

Let's not question the Schwarber.

Cespedes bat flip + this bomb + Jose bat flip in consecutive days was peak home run.

 

[metafour]

18 year old Vlad Jr. is not coming up as a September call-up, lol.

 

[King Mapes]

I have no words. Look at our 5-9 hitters. If you told me I'm ST that would be our 5-9 hitters I'd fall over laughing. Dear lord. Plus facing Carrasco? Good luck

 

[Canada4Gold]

I have no words. Look at our 5-9 hitters. If you told me I'm ST that would be our 5-9 hitters I'd fall over laughing. Dear lord. Plus facing Carrasco? Good luck

and Pillar, Carrera 1/2. I mean Carrera's been good and Pillar great, but man 7/9th of that lineup would have been considered #8 or 9 hitters to start the year. And Bautista is hitting like a #9 hitter or worse. At least we have the worst mistake of the offseason in Morales to save us

 

[Eyedea]

Jordan Romano had another good start for Dunedin.

Alford back in for NH.

 

[Discoverer]

and Pillar, Carrera 1/2. I mean Carrera's been good and Pillar great, but man 7/9th of that lineup would have been considered #8 or 9 hitters to start the year. And Bautista is hitting like a #9 hitter or worse. At least we have the worst mistake of the offseason in Morales to save us

I would sign off on that Morales contract a thousand times before considering the deal the Rockies gave Ian Desmond.

 

[Canada4Gold]

I would sign off on that Morales contract a thousand times before considering the deal the Rockies gave Ian Desmond.

Yeah I know, me too. I think it was decent, especially if it was tied to Gurriel like was rumoured. He could be just as productive as EE for those 3 years. And if not he's being paid about half as much anyway.

It's just people were calling it that and now he's pretty much our only good hitter that was supposed to be good. Then again he left today hurt, hopefully he's not the next one to fall, we've got nobody left

 

[Discoverer]

Yeah I know, me too. I think it was decent, especially if it was tied to Gurriel like was rumoured. He could be just as productive as EE for those 3 years. And if not he's being paid about half as much anyway.

It's just people were calling it that and now he's pretty much our only good hitter that was supposed to be good. Then again he left today hurt, hopefully he's not the next one to fall, we've got nobody left

Ah... we agree. I thought you were serious there. Carry on, then.

 

[Morgs]

Can someone tell me why people think Yoan Moncada is the next superstar?

His stats are impressive, but they're heavily BABIP dependant and he strikes out in +25% of ab's. Yes, it has to be due to his speed & his projection to be good/great in nearly every FV category... but I just don't get why he's considered the best prospect in baseball?

 

[Canada4Gold]

Can someone tell me why people think Yoan Moncada is the next superstar?

His stats are impressive, but they're heavily BABIP dependant and he strikes out in +25% of ab's. Yes, it has to be due to his speed & his projection to be good/great in nearly every FV category... but I just don't get why he's the best?

IDK, I've noticed in the past that stat scouting him makes you really afraid of his K rate. It was like 33% last year IIRC. I assume it's heavily projecting his tools. But it's also a bit of fools game when you rely on tools especially once you get high up the minors ladder.

I'd always take a prove guy who everyone doesn't think will project well over someone who has all the tools yet hasn't managed the results in the minors(though Moncada doesn't really fit that latter catagory besides for the K rate).

Gose will turn those tools into actual production anyday now

I think that's a part of the reason I don't trust projecting tools instead of results. Every toolsy position prospect we've had lately has busted. The only real position prospect we've developed was never ranked Pillar who did nothing but hit his entire way through the system. Score 1 for stat scouting.

 

[Discoverer]

IDK, I've noticed in the past that stat scouting him makes you really afraid of his K rate. It was like 33% last year IIRC. I assume it's heavily projecting his tools. But it's also a bit of fools game when you rely on tools especially once you get high up the minors ladder.

I'd always take a prove guy who everyone doesn't think will project well over someone who has all the tools yet hasn't managed the results in the minors(though Moncada doesn't really fit that latter catagory besides for the K rate).

Gose will turn those tools into actual production anyday now

I think that's a part of the reason I don't trust projecting tools instead of results. Every toolsy position prospect we've had lately has busted. The only real position prospect we've developed was never ranked Pillar who did nothing but hit his entire way through the system. Score 1 for stat scouting.

So you're saying Leblebijian is a better prospect than DJ Davis? I don't believe you.

 

[metafour]

The only real position prospect we've developed was never ranked Pillar who did nothing but hit his entire way through the system. Score 1 for stat scouting.

Except that Pillar has largely been a negative offensive player for the majority of his career, thus the fact that he "hit his way through the system" really hasn't materialized into anything consistently real, so I'm not really sure how that is a "score" for stat scouting. He's a career 90 wRC+ hitter.

 

[Morgs]

Seems strange to me that anyone could ever think the best prospect in baseball could strikeout 30.9% of the time in 207 PA. Like almost In a full season thats almost Mark Reynolds bad.

I mean, Kris Bryant had the same issue on his way through the minors (but not as bad), but his power was so evident it made sense to have him as the best (or if i recall 2nd after Buxton lol), and he wasn't nearly as dependant on his BABIP. So give him the Kris Bryant treatment because....?

 

[Eyedea]

Seems strange to me that anyone could ever think the best prospect in baseball could strikeout 30.9% of the time in 207 PA. Like almost In a full season thats almost Mark Reynolds bad.

I mean, Kris Bryant had the same issue on his way through the minors (but not as bad), but his power was so evident it made sense to have him as the best (or if i recall 2nd after Buxton lol), and he wasn't nearly as dependant on his BABIP. So give him the Kris Bryant treatment because....?

Loud tools.

 

[Morgs]

I just went to check out Mark Reynolds 2009 season.

How does the major league record holder for K's in a season put up a wRC+ of 127? I went in thinking "How could a team even give him that many AB's in that season" lol. The guy had himself quite the year.

 

[Discoverer]

I just went to check out Mark Reynolds 2009 season.

How does the major league record holder for K's in a season put up a wRC+ of 127? I went in thinking "How could a team even give him that many AB's in that season" lol. The guy had himself quite the year.

Ks aren't that much worse than other outs, and if they also come with walks and power, you can make it work.

 

[Eyedea]

I just went to check out Mark Reynolds 2009 season.

How does the major league record holder for K's in a season put up a wRC+ of 127? I went in thinking "How could a team even give him that many AB's in that season" lol. The guy had himself quite the year.

Him, Adam Dunn, Mike Napoli, and Jack Cust were basically the pioneers of three true outcomes. Now with guys like Bryant, Springer, Pederson, Stanton, Judge, Sano, Gallo, (Khris) Davis, Thames, et al, we've seen a new TTO generation ushered in.

 

[Morgs]

Ks aren't that much worse than other outs, and if they also come with walks and power, you can make it work.

Depends on the outs though. If he's batting 0/100 (obviously being dramatic) with RISP and most/all were K's it's pretty brutal. Based on his 102 RBI though, and not really having the desire to dig deeper, I doubt that was the case.

Still so frustrating watching a guy strike out in 1/3 of his AB's. I mean, most of us wish that Smoak (last season) with his 32% K rate would just poke the ball.

 

[Morgs]

Him, Adam Dunn, Mike Napoli, and Jack Cust were basically the pioneers of three true outcomes. Now with guys like Bryant, Springer, Pederson, Stanton, Judge, Sano, Gallo, (Khris) Davis, Thames, et al, we've seen a new TTO generation ushered in.

Interesting. Thanks, until today I didn't know that.

Still doesn't explain how a guy like Moncada can get away with it without the absurd amount of power.

 

[Discoverer]

Depends on the outs though. If he's batting 0/100 (obviously being dramatic) with RISP and most/all were K's it's pretty brutal. Based on his 102 RBI though, and not really having the desire to dig deeper, I doubt that was the case.

Still so frustrating watching a guy strike out in 1/3 of his AB's. I mean, most of us wish that Smoak (last season) with his 32% K rate would just poke the ball.

We wouldn't have cared so much if he actually hit for power last year.

Also, RISP is kind of irrelevant to the discussion. Production is production.

 

[Canada4Gold]

Also, RISP is kind of irrelevant to the discussion. Production is production.

I think he's thinking more along the lines of guy at 3rd with less than 2 outs(or guy at 2nd with 0), a K doesn't move them up while other outs can score them or move them up.

Those are truly the times when a K is most annoying

 

[metafour]

Still doesn't explain how a guy like Moncada can get away with it without the absurd amount of power.

Moncada is a 65-70 grade runner; his BABIP will always be higher than normal. He's also got 20-25 HR pop with what would also be a **** ton of doubles and triples. The strikeouts are an obvious concern, but you are really downplaying the loudness of his tools.

 

[Morgs]

Moncada is a 65-70 grade runner; his BABIP will always be higher than normal. He's also got 20-25 HR pop with what would also be a **** ton of doubles and triples. The strikeouts are an obvious concern, but you are really downplaying the loudness of his tools.

That was my original question; I wanted to know why he's considered the best prospect in baseball.

 

[PG Canuck]

This interview with Edwin has me in tears.

Love you forever Edwing.

 

[dredeye]

and Pillar, Carrera 1/2. I mean Carrera's been good and Pillar great, but man 7/9th of that lineup would have been considered #8 or 9 hitters to start the year. And Bautista is hitting like a #9 hitter or worse. At least we have the worst mistake of the offseason in Morales to save us

worst mistake of the off season Morales?

Morales .244 avg .294 obp 6 db 6hr 20rbi 11 million 3 years
Encarnacion .223 avg .362 obp 2db 5hr 11rbi 20 million 3 years

EE's obp is still great and by far better than Morales but worst mistake of the season is ridiculous. Bautista is the worst contract of the off season by a country mile