Blue Jays Discussion: It's a bird, it's a plane, it's Kevin Pillar!

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Walshy7

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Sep 18, 2016
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Blue Jays slugger Jose Bautista went 0 for 13, including seven strikeouts, in the series. His batting average dropped to .174.

oof that is bad,

we are 10 games back of 1st but also 4 games back of 2nd last in the division it would be a near miracle to make the playoffs from here even with Donaldson, tulo, sanchez and happ at mid season form.
 

Eyedea

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oof that is bad,

we are 10 games back of 1st but also 4 games back of 2nd last in the division it would be a near miracle to make the playoffs from here even with Donaldson, tulo, sanchez and happ at mid season form.

6 back of the Red Sox for WC2? For reference the Jays were 2 games up on the division September 1st of last year (4 up on the Orioles). They ended up tying the O's and being 4 games back of the Red Sox by the end of it (peaking at 6 back in late September).
 

Walshy7

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6 back of the Red Sox for WC2? For reference the Jays were 2 games up on the division September 1st of last year (4 up on the Orioles). They ended up tying the O's and being 4 games back of the Red Sox by the end of it (peaking at 6 back in late September).

yeah and all that with in form versions of players I listed. But you are right plenty of baseball still to play, although id hate to be in that 50-50 position of sell or go for it and just miss
 

doorman

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yeah and all that with in form versions of players I listed. But you are right plenty of baseball still to play, although id hate to be in that 50-50 position of sell or go for it and just miss

There might be other factors involved in this scenario to consider. The lack of draft pick compensation tied to UFA's it's expected to be busier then ever on the trade front. This in turn could create an arms race so to speak where as teams may make offers for players who may be deemed not on the market. While unlikely, you never know what could happen. It is said in hockey GM's make there worst mistakes at the deadline and could the new system cause this in MLB as well?
 

King Mapes

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oof that is bad,

we are 10 games back of 1st but also 4 games back of 2nd last in the division it would be a near miracle to make the playoffs from here even with Donaldson, tulo, sanchez and happ at mid season form.

I wouldn't even look at standings necessarily. Can we get to 88-90 wins? People are always so high strung on standings but it's easier just look at total wins and see if we can get there. So we'd need to go 77-54 to have a shot. Doable but not probable. We'll see.
 

Finlandia WOAT

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I wouldn't even look at standings necessarily. Can we get to 88-90 wins? People are always so high strung on standings but it's easier just look at total wins and see if we can get there. So we'd need to go 77-54 to have a shot. Doable but not probable. We'll see.

They would need to play .600 baseball from here on out (80/130= .61; 80 wins to hit 90 and near guarentee of a playoff spot).
 

Kurtz

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I wouldn't even look at standings necessarily. Can we get to 88-90 wins? People are always so high strung on standings but it's easier just look at total wins and see if we can get there. So we'd need to go 77-54 to have a shot. Doable but not probable. We'll see.

I know 88-90 has been enough in the past, but I wonder if it's even enough this year. NY/BAL has started the year on fire, and Boston is just rounding into shape.
 

Discoverer

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I know 88-90 has been enough in the past, but I wonder if it's even enough this year. NY/BAL has started the year on fire, and Boston is just rounding into shape.

I don't know about Boston "rounding into shape." Other than beating up on the Twins a couple times over the weekend, they've been mediocre lately.
 

Kurtz

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I don't know about Boston "rounding into shape." Other than beating up on the Twins a couple times over the weekend, they've been mediocre lately.

Twins have been pretty respectable this year. I'd still put Boston on well north of 90 wins.
 

Canada4Gold

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As good as Baltimore's record is, I don't belive they're that good. Their run differential is +11, making their pythag W/L 16-14 so they've outproduced that by 4 wins already, that's not going to continue. Reminds me of when they had a ridiculous 1 run game record 4 or 5 years ago and all their fans were convinced they have figured out how to win close games and out produce their pythag and the following year I think they were awful in them.

They're far enough ahead that even normal luck from this point on will have them at a good record but I see NY and Boston as the class of the division so I expect Baltimore is the team everyone is going to have to catch if they want a WC spot.
 

hizzoner

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Blue Jays slugger Jose Bautista went 0 for 13, including seven strikeouts, in the series. His batting average dropped to .174.

We saw that last year--he seldom goes to opposite field. Never is a threat to bunt--is a sucker for pitch low and outside. He has been figured out. He was a choke last year with men on base in the latter part of year and playoffs. Did not want him back and he has not changed my mind about that.
 

The Nemesis

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We saw that last year--he seldom goes to opposite field. Never is a threat to bunt--is a sucker for pitch low and outside. He has been figured out. He was a choke last year with men on base in the latter part of year and playoffs. Did not want him back and he has not changed my mind about that.

He hasn't been "figured out" because if that were the case we would've seen this adjustment earlier than 7 years after his breakout.

The more likely culprit is simply that the continued degradation of his skills has hit the tipping point where more exploitable weak points have appeared. His bat speed has slowed and he can't get around on some pitches. And his power has dipped and caused some of his not-quite-squared balls that would clear the fence to drop off into the realm of the deep fly out. 2016 Bautista showed the cracks, but had enough gas in the tank to still put up a pretty good season by average MLBer standards (though one that looked bad by his own lofty standards of the decade). That's why I didn't want him back, because that seemed to be coming. If there's a saving grace it's that his one-year-plus-options deal is easily movable and not a noose around the team's neck if he does indeed settle into his current performance being the new normal.

I realize that it comes to the same conclusion that you did (bringing Bautista back was probably not a smart move) but if you're going to have a conclusion, at least get there with evidence that can be validated and supported. Otherwise it opens the door for people to dismiss the conclusion by poking holes in the shaky evidence.

The fact that he was never a bunting threat is also largely immaterial because when you have a big bat the caliber of 2010-15 Jose Bautista, you don't ask him to bunt.

As a small aside, the idea that he was worse with RISP last season is pretty much untrue.

2016 bases empty: .211 avg, .747 OPS, .332 wOBA, 106 wRC+
2016 runners on: .265 avg, .911 OPS, .384 wOBA, 142 wRC+
2016 RISP: .290 avg, .984 OPS, .412 wOBA, 161 wRC+

and

2016 playoffs overall: .182 avg, .702 OPS
2016 playoffs RISP: .286 avg, 1.089 OPS

I don't have wOBA or wRC+ for the playoffs as RISP splits. Also the #s in general are a fairly extreme small sample size warning (7 of 33 total playoff ABs were with RISP), but still.....
 

The Nemesis

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:laugh:

A couple days ago there was a piece on ESPN about how Ryan Howard is working in the minors eyeing an MLB comeback because he "knows he has more in the tank" and he's not done yet.

Today?

"Howard hitting .182 for Triple-A Braves, cut by team"

ouch. But not unexpected. Howard hasn't been relevant since 2011. Nobody's looking to employ a part-time DH who has to be platooned to avoid facing LHPs.
 

vancityluongo

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:laugh:

A couple days ago there was a piece on ESPN about how Ryan Howard is working in the minors eyeing an MLB comeback because he "knows he has more in the tank" and he's not done yet.

Today?

"Howard hitting .182 for Triple-A Braves, cut by team"

ouch. But not unexpected. Howard hasn't been relevant since 2011. Nobody's looking to employ a part-time DH who has to be platooned to avoid facing LHPs.

https://pitchbook.com/newsletter/ryan-howard-joins-seventysix-capital

Haven't followed the guy but this came up in my emails this morning. Probably has a lot to do with it.
 

Diamond Joe Quimby

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Does anyone else feel like there's a "who's more awesome" competition ongoing between Vald Jr and Bo Knows? They go back and forth every game; every time the other has a multi-hit, multi-RBI game, the other comes back with one of his own :laugh:.
 

Canada4Gold

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Does anyone else feel like there's a "who's more awesome" competition ongoing between Vald Jr and Bo Knows? They go back and forth every game; every time the other has a multi-hit, multi-RBI game, the other comes back with one of his own :laugh:.

Vlad is on what now, a 26 game on base streak to start the year? Something like that.
 
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