Blue Jays Discussion: It's a bird, it's a plane, it's Kevin Pillar!

[King Mapes]

Between you and Zeke, we're getting both ends of the Ridiculous AA Opinions spectrum.

Like any GM he had his faults but man he had an eye for talent. But I find it funny that people ***** that he cost us our farm. Like who (besides Syndergard)? For fun let's review:

Traded Lind for Estrada. Huge win.

Difficult task of dealing Halladay off the bat. One of those peices was TDA and another was flipped around for a bit that got Travis. Tough to judge since he requested a deal.

Signs Jose to a 5/65 mill dollar deal. Got crazy good value.

Dumped Wells contract. Seemed impossible.

The JD trade. This almost counters the Dickey trade.

Gomes for Rogers. Obviously a lost trade that was thought of as minor.

David Price trade. It was a win now trade. Gave us a push for the playoffs.

The Tulo deal I'll call even. We gave and we get. Only problem is injuries.

Then of course the Dickey trade. Horrendous deal.


These are really the big deals. Most were pretty good deals. Some were very good, Dickey deal aside.

Then there was his ability to draft and build our prospect pool. Many of us waited 2 decades to go for it and many were tired of "check out our prospect pool!" Attitude. We had future 5 tool superstar Wells, Rios, Snider, Arencibia, Romero, Cecil. All future stars. How many really pan out? AA got us to make it back to back years and finally got us excited again. I watched for 2 decades and never seen a playoff game until 2015. Every GM will make mistakes but I would say the only real mistake was the Dickey trade which was bad then and horrendous now. But after looking at that, look at everything he did.

Ps he also drafted Stroman and Sanchez and IIRC believe signed Osuna so I'm not sure how anyone can say he mortgaged the future.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Like any GM he had his faults but man he had an eye for talent. But I find it funny that people ***** that he cost us our farm. Like who (besides Syndergard)? For fun let's review:

Traded Lind for Estrada. Huge win.

Difficult task of dealing Halladay off the bat. One of those peices was TDA and another was flipped around for a bit that got Travis. Tough to judge since he requested a deal.

Signs Jose to a 5/65 mill dollar deal. Got crazy good value.

Dumped Wells contract. Seemed impossible.

The JD trade. This almost counters the Dickey trade.

Gomes for Rogers. Obviously a lost trade that was thought of as minor.

David Price trade. It was a win now trade. Gave us a push for the playoffs.

The Tulo deal I'll call even. We gave and we get. Only problem is injuries.

Then of course the Dickey trade. Horrendous deal.


These are really the big deals. Most were pretty good deals. Some were very good, Dickey deal aside.

Then there was his ability to draft and build our prospect pool. Many of us waited 2 decades to go for it and many were tired of "check out our prospect pool!" Attitude. We had future 5 tool superstar Wells, Rios, Snider, Arencibia, Romero, Cecil. All future stars. How many really pan out? AA got us to make it back to back years and finally got us excited again. I watched for 2 decades and never seen a playoff game until 2015. Every GM will make mistakes but I would say the only real mistake was the Dickey trade which was bad then and horrendous now. But after looking at that, look at everything he did.

Ps he also drafted Stroman and Sanchez and IIRC believe signed Osuna so I'm not sure how anyone can say he mortgaged the future.

Let's not go crazy, let's not go nuts (let's also not slip on a purple banana peal till they put us in the truck).

Anyone saying he "mortgaged the future" is being hyperbolic and does not really understand what assets were traded in 2016. Anyone who professes that he was perfect is out to lunch. Good summary of the transactions. Most of the blemishes are small (i.e. Napoli for Francisco), save for Dickey.

My main criticism is the positional prospect drafting and development, and that is really all. He was a middle-tier GM. Had his strengths and weaknesses, and I wish him well.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Let's not go crazy, let's not go nuts (let's also not slip on a purple banana peal till they put us in the truck).

Anyone saying he "mortgaged the future" is being hyperbolic and does not really understand what assets were traded in 2016. Anyone who professes that he was perfect is out to lunch. Good summary of the transactions. Most of the blemishes are small (i.e. Napoli for Francisco), save for Dickey.

My main criticism is the positional prospect drafting and development, and that is really all. He was a middle-tier GM. Had his strengths and weaknesses, and I wish him well.

Yeah he was a good GM. The annoying thing is the portion of this fanbase that act like he was gods gift to the craft of GMing a team. It got old about a week after he left and for some reason it is still happening now.

 

[Bad News Benning]

Cycle alert. Bo with triple and double in first two AB's.

 

[Glenn Isildur Healy]

Don't forget about the Reyes, Buehrle, Johnson, Buck, Bonificio trade
All that payroll AA took on to make a run at the playoffs

Turns out, Miami got the best player in the deal

Napoli for Frank Francisco was a mess of a trade. Follows up with a 30 home run, .320 avg, .414 obp and a 1.046 ops season

Kelly Johnson for Aaron Hill was pretty bad as well

 

[King Mapes]

Don't forget about the Reyes, Buehrle, Johnson, Buck, Bonificio trade
All that payroll AA took on to make a run at the playoffs

Turns out, Miami got the best player in the deal

Napoli for Frank Francisco was a mess of a trade. Follows up with a 30 home run, .320 avg, .414 obp and a 1.046 ops season

Kelly Johnson for Aaron Hill was pretty bad as well

While true keep in mind we got Napoli for Wells and it was basically a 3 way deal. We had no intentions on keeping him. LA essentially traded him for Wells and is terrible contract. That would have been an amazing deal for us had we just kept Napoli.

Just realized you mentioned Hill. That deal wasn't that bad. Hill had 1 more good year but it was obvious he wasn't what he used to be. While we lost the deal, certainly not worth talking about.

 

[King Mapes]

Let's not go crazy, let's not go nuts (let's also not slip on a purple banana peal till they put us in the truck).

Anyone saying he "mortgaged the future" is being hyperbolic and does not really understand what assets were traded in 2016. Anyone who professes that he was perfect is out to lunch. Good summary of the transactions. Most of the blemishes are small (i.e. Napoli for Francisco), save for Dickey.

My main criticism is the positional prospect drafting and development, and that is really all. He was a middle-tier GM. Had his strengths and weaknesses, and I wish him well.

Hey I said almost. That was pretty amazing to get an MVP at that value though.

I did like Norris I admit but damn. I watched for so long and waited for us to win now. So I can't complain.

My issue was dealing so many potential catchers to have JPA as our guy. Gomes (though wasn't a C at the time), flipping Napoli after getting him and of course TDA. I think most of those happened close together but I'm too lazy to look it up

 

[Acekicker123]

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Hey I said almost. That was pretty amazing to get an MVP at that value though.

I did like Norris I admit but damn. I watched for so long and waited for us to win now. So I can't complain.

My issue was dealing so many potential catchers to have JPA as our guy. Gomes (though wasn't a C at the time), flipping Napoli after getting him and of course TDA. I think most of those happened close together but I'm too lazy to look it up

Yeah the fact he stuck with JPA for as long as he did was absolutely infuriating at the time as he just kept throwing better catchers to the side in order to keep using one of the worst players I have had the displeasure of watching suit up for the Jays consistently. To this day I don't get what AA saw in him to let him be a starting catcher in the majors for that long.

 

[zeke]

Like any GM he had his faults but man he had an eye for talent. But I find it funny that people ***** that he cost us our farm. Like who (besides Syndergard)? For fun let's review:

Traded Lind for Estrada. Huge win.

Difficult task of dealing Halladay off the bat. One of those peices was TDA and another was flipped around for a bit that got Travis. Tough to judge since he requested a deal.

Signs Jose to a 5/65 mill dollar deal. Got crazy good value.

Dumped Wells contract. Seemed impossible.

The JD trade. This almost counters the Dickey trade.

Gomes for Rogers. Obviously a lost trade that was thought of as minor.

David Price trade. It was a win now trade. Gave us a push for the playoffs.

The Tulo deal I'll call even. We gave and we get. Only problem is injuries.

Then of course the Dickey trade. Horrendous deal.


These are really the big deals. Most were pretty good deals. Some were very good, Dickey deal aside.

Then there was his ability to draft and build our prospect pool. Many of us waited 2 decades to go for it and many were tired of "check out our prospect pool!" Attitude. We had future 5 tool superstar Wells, Rios, Snider, Arencibia, Romero, Cecil. All future stars. How many really pan out? AA got us to make it back to back years and finally got us excited again. I watched for 2 decades and never seen a playoff game until 2015. Every GM will make mistakes but I would say the only real mistake was the Dickey trade which was bad then and horrendous now. But after looking at that, look at everything he did.

Ps he also drafted Stroman and Sanchez and IIRC believe signed Osuna so I'm not sure how anyone can say he mortgaged the future.

tulo trade was even?

not only did he ditch the reyes contract but this is what the prospects he gave up in the deal have done since:

MLB: 51.1ip, 5.79era
AAA: 172.0ip, 4.55era
AA: 36.1ip, 3.22era
A+: 17.2ip, 12.73era
A: 126.1ip, 4.42era

 

[zeke]

Let's not go crazy, let's not go nuts (

depending on what WAR you prefer, Donaldson earned more value in one year for us than Syndergaard has so far in his career.

 

[King Mapes]

tulo trade was even?

not only did he ditch the reyes contract but this is what the prospects he gave up in the deal have done since:

MLB: 51.1ip, 5.79era
AAA: 172.0ip, 4.55era
AA: 36.1ip, 3.22era
A+: 17.2ip, 12.73era
A: 126.1ip, 4.42era

Jeff Hoffman has potential to be pretty good. I guess I mean it's too early to tell

 

[King Mapes]

depending on what WAR you prefer, Donaldson earned more value in one year for us than Syndergaard has so far in his career.

JD is an every day player who won MVP so personally I'd rather that but both were lopsided AF.

I forgot he also traded for Happ and who knows if he signs here without previously playing here but that go around he wasn't that good.

 

[King Mapes]

Oh and guess who's going to the game today? First regular season game I'm attending.

 

[ShaneFalco]

The Rays might be without Gold Glove center fielder Kevin Kiermaier after he was removed from the game Friday when he was hit on the right hand by a pitch from Francisco Liriano. Although there did not appear to be anything behind the pitch -- Kiermaier was 0-for-2 in the game at that point -- there was plenty of frustration from his comments.
"I hate coming out of games," Kiermaier said. "I've broken my hand before with guys hitting me and certain things like that. The catcher sets up outside and comes up and in and he misses and hits me in my hand and makes me exit the game.
"Something I'm not going to forget. That's one of those things where, like I said, I'm not happy about it. He got me in terrible spot, but we will ice it and do whatever we can tomorrow and see how it feels."

http://www.tsn.ca/mlb/game/toronto-blue-jays-tampa-bay-rays-20170506/Preview

 

[ShaneFalco]

Oh and guess who's going to the game today? First regular season game I'm attending.

Cool! Should be a good one with Marco pitching

 

[zeke]

honestly the Kiermaier injury may have won us that game. if their backup hadn't miffed on Travis' double we may never have tied it up.

 

[King Mapes]

Cool! Should be a good one with Marco pitching

Thanks! I wanted Stroman or Sanchez but one is hurt and the other isn't going this weekend so I let my kid pick between Estrada or Liriano. Too bad Tulo and JD are out

 

[OVO16]

When is tulo and Donaldson supposed to come back. We need to go on a winning streak in the worst way to salvage this season or else its gonna be too late

 

[Bad News Benning]

http://www.tsn.ca/mlb/game/toronto-blue-jays-tampa-bay-rays-20170506/Preview

Liriano is wild..i mean look at the ratio of balls and strikes or the heat map. You can't tell me a pitcher having issues just finding the strike zone can accurately place the ball to a batters wrist. Im not sure why he's crying about it. Bad luck but suck it up and move on. Be upset when there is actual reason to think it's intentional otherwise you just look like the boy who cried wolf too many times.

 

[Epictetus]

I think there will be some retaliation today or tomorrow. Guessing they hit Pillar this time.

Yes, I know it's unjustified since Liriano was super wild, but baseball players and baseball culture is very "eye for an eye".

 

[The Nemesis]

I think there will be some retaliation today or tomorrow. Guessing they hit Pillar this time.

Yes, I know it's unjustified since Liriano was super wild, but baseball players and baseball culture is very "eye for an eye".

Yeah, it's stupid. I get it if someone does something dirty or gets plunked intentionally, but "needing" to nail someone because one of your guys took a wild pitch to the hand (not even the body, Kiermeier stuck his hands out to swing and got in the way) is like the equivalent of hockey's "you laid a clean hit on my guy, I need to fight you now" nonsense.

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

depending on what WAR you prefer, Donaldson earned more value in one year for us than Syndergaard has so far in his career.

You better watch it with that crazy talk before Metafour sees it.

 

[Dr.Funk]

When is tulo and Donaldson supposed to come back. We need to go on a winning streak in the worst way to salvage this season or else its gonna be too late

From Rotoworld:


Blue Jays manager John Gibbons said Thursday that he's hoping to have Josh Donaldson (calf) and Troy Tulowitzki (hamstring) back from the disabled list on Monday.