Is Vilardi the most expendable prospect?

[johnjm22]

You gathered that from seven games this season?

If you want to argue small sample size, that's a legitimate argument. But he has been worse in each NHL stint.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

I think the problem is he may not have much value at this point.

As a Flames fan I would love him on my team in a middle six role, either as a RW or as Mangiapane's centre.

It seems our 1st from that draft (Valimaki) could help you guys as a ~#4D, maybe even as Doughty's partner in a Muzzin type role.

 

[kilowatt]

If you want to argue small sample size, that's a legitimate argument. But he has been worse in each NHL stint.

He didn't look great this season, I agree. Neither did his linemates, Tkachev and Kaliyev. Tkachev is back in Ontario and Kaliyev is getting fourth line minutes. Was there any doubt whether or not that line would struggle?

Similarly, Vilardi stopped producing last season when he got shifted to play with Wagner and Lizotte. He was productive playing with Iafallo and Andersson. Hey, what a concept!

His line was really clicking in preseason with Andersson and Tkachev. When Andersson went down, someone with a similar playing style - Iafallo, Kempe, even Brown - should have slotted in, not Kaliyev. But none of Kaliyev, Tkachev, or Vilardi are hard on the forecheck or great defensively, and they predictably got their faces smashed in possession-wise.

Vilardi has obvious deficencies. He's not a great skater and he's not the best in his own zone. All I'm asking is for him to get a shot in a position where he might succeed. Play him at wing next to Kopitar or Danault for a few games. See what happens. It just seems weird to put him in situations where he has a good chance of failing and then saying "wow, what a failure".

 

[bland]

He didn't look great this season, I agree. Neither did his linemates, Tkachev and Kaliyev. Tkachev is back in Ontario and Kaliyev is getting fourth line minutes. Was there any doubt whether or not that line would struggle?

Similarly, Vilardi stopped producing last season when he got shifted to play with Wagner and Lizotte. He was productive playing with Iafallo and Andersson. Hey, what a concept!

His line was really clicking in preseason with Andersson and Tkachev. When Andersson went down, someone with a similar playing style - Iafallo, Kempe, even Brown - should have slotted in, not Kaliyev. But none of Kaliyev, Tkachev, or Vilardi are hard on the forecheck or great defensively, and they predictably got their faces smashed in possession-wise.

Vilardi has obvious deficencies. He's not a great skater and he's not the best in his own zone. All I'm asking is for him to get a shot in a position where he might succeed. Play him at wing next to Kopitar or Danault for a few games. See what happens. It just seems weird to put him in situations where he has a good chance of failing and then saying "wow, what a failure".

That isn't really it though, he hasn't earned top 6 time and giving it to him because its best chance of succeeding is a backhanded compliment at best. He doesn't manage his shifts well, he gets lost in coverages, he can't win draws, he gets down on himself too easily, there are a lot of things to work on.

He was moved down the ice time chart because he was a 5 x 5 liability. He couldn't be trusted with more minutes. He has to take that and turn it into a positive, but given that Byfield is going to be back by early January after the WJCs, he better get going on that work. Maybe it means 20 plus games in Ontario to rebuild his confidence and show that he has heard the criticism and is making the adjustments.

He is an offensive center, he needs to make the players around him better. Thus far all he has really shown is that he can be somewhat individually dangerous. It would be detrimental to the team to change up working units just to try and get him started.

Kaliyev isn't hurting the team while learning on the job. Vilardi was more problematic, though he did make the 2nd PP unit much more dangerous. None of this is a major problem, its all part of development. Vilardi just needs to make the improvements before his chances are taken by somebody else.

 

[Maynard]

I really hope they keep him, work him in slowly, send him down….whatever. Just don’t trade him. Not yet. He looked like Jagr in the preseason.

 

[kilowatt]

That isn't really it though, he hasn't earned top 6 time and giving it to him because its best chance of succeeding is a backhanded compliment at best. He doesn't manage his shifts well, he gets lost in coverages, he can't win draws, he gets down on himself too easily, there are a lot of things to work on.

He was moved down the ice time chart because he was a 5 x 5 liability. He couldn't be trusted with more minutes. He has to take that and turn it into a positive, but given that Byfield is going to be back by early January after the WJCs, he better get going on that work. Maybe it means 20 plus games in Ontario to rebuild his confidence and show that he has heard the criticism and is making the adjustments.

He is an offensive center, he needs to make the players around him better. Thus far all he has really shown is that he can be somewhat individually dangerous. It would be detrimental to the team to change up working units just to try and get him started.

Kaliyev isn't hurting the team while learning on the job. Vilardi was more problematic, though he did make the 2nd PP unit much more dangerous. None of this is a major problem, its all part of development. Vilardi just needs to make the improvements before his chances are taken by somebody else.

Kaliyev isn't hurting the team because he's allowed to float out there. I like Kaliyev and want him to succeed but he shies away from contact and frequently gives up on battles. Which, if you have different expectations from Vilardi and Kaliyev, that's fair and fine.

But Kaliyev is benefitting now from playing with Lemieux and Lizotte - guys whose careers depend on their motors redlining every second of every shift. So in some respects I agree — Kaliyev isn't costing them games because he's not even in a position to lose a game. Put Vilardi in Kaliyev's role and he won't lose them games either.

I think we agree that Vilardi, at least right now, isn't going to be carrying a line as a center. I don't even see where could slot in at center right now Fourth line? Take over for Kupari? Doesn't really make sense. But a productive Vilardi would be such a boon for this team, and I hope we get to see it.

 

[King'sPawn]

That isn't really it though, he hasn't earned top 6 time and giving it to him because its best chance of succeeding is a backhanded compliment at best. He doesn't manage his shifts well, he gets lost in coverages, he can't win draws, he gets down on himself too easily, there are a lot of things to work on.

He was moved down the ice time chart because he was a 5 x 5 liability. He couldn't be trusted with more minutes. He has to take that and turn it into a positive, but given that Byfield is going to be back by early January after the WJCs, he better get going on that work. Maybe it means 20 plus games in Ontario to rebuild his confidence and show that he has heard the criticism and is making the adjustments.

He is an offensive center, he needs to make the players around him better. Thus far all he has really shown is that he can be somewhat individually dangerous. It would be detrimental to the team to change up working units just to try and get him started.

Kaliyev isn't hurting the team while learning on the job. Vilardi was more problematic, though he did make the 2nd PP unit much more dangerous. None of this is a major problem, its all part of development. Vilardi just needs to make the improvements before his chances are taken by somebody else.

He would very likely benefit from going to the AHL. It's better than benching him indefinitely.

He's played less than an NHL season's worth of games in 3 years, after enduring years of back problems.

The treatment, apparently, is to improve his back, but one of the keys to being a pro is to reach a particular cardio fitness to maintain a certain level of energy during shifts and games. My suspicion is he's had to prioritize back health over cardio, making minutes more difficult to manage over stretches of a season.

Add to it, he had endured a lot of psychological adversity.

I love Vilardi. His hockey intelligence is, in my opinion, the highest of all prospects/young core players.

My hope for Vilardi is:
- he plays on the RW. Preferably in a scoring role. Preferably with one or two players he has good synergy with (he was at his best with Andersson, Moore, and Frk)
- if he needs time at the AHL, then so be it. Maybe he needs some small victories to boost his confidence.
- they DON'T trade him. The suggestion that any prospect is expendable when the average age of our current top 6 is over 29 years old is absurd. Nobody has secured a spot in the top-6 yet.

 

[cyclones22]

Meanwhile Tkachev has 9 assists in 5 AHL games.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

That isn't really it though, he hasn't earned top 6 time and giving it to him because its best chance of succeeding is a backhanded compliment at best. He doesn't manage his shifts well, he gets lost in coverages, he can't win draws, he gets down on himself too easily, there are a lot of things to work on.

He was moved down the ice time chart because he was a 5 x 5 liability. He couldn't be trusted with more minutes. He has to take that and turn it into a positive, but given that Byfield is going to be back by early January after the WJCs, he better get going on that work. Maybe it means 20 plus games in Ontario to rebuild his confidence and show that he has heard the criticism and is making the adjustments.

He is an offensive center, he needs to make the players around him better. Thus far all he has really shown is that he can be somewhat individually dangerous. It would be detrimental to the team to change up working units just to try and get him started.

Kaliyev isn't hurting the team while learning on the job. Vilardi was more problematic, though he did make the 2nd PP unit much more dangerous. None of this is a major problem, its all part of development. Vilardi just needs to make the improvements before his chances are taken by somebody else.

He's an offensive center that was being used as a defensive 4C and he's unable to make any adjustments if he's not allowed to play. Continuing to hold the numbers from the team's first 7 games against him means he will never get in the lineup. How does he go about 'earning' that time?

Part of development is playing, coaches putting you in a position to succeed. He's getting neither. And that's without discussing what most of us believe is his future, time at wing. Instead he's being held responsible for his play as a 4c during the teams worst stretch with a first-time NHL russian winger and whoever else they wanted to rotate in.

he's didn't do himself any favors during that stretch, but people are overlooking his entire body of work and the organization's mis-utilization to blame his entire line's early season failures on him when there's plenty of sample size of him doing more.

Again, after years and years of developing Dwight Kings, this organization finally has weapons at their disposal and they want to turn them all back into Dwight Kings...sure guys need to grow and develop all around games, but this organization doesn't seem able to, or willing to, see what guys truly have when put in positions to use their skillsets. They have to do so against their will, and Kale Clague is a good example this year. So is Kupari--everyone is drooling over his ability to 'move up the lineup' and 'not be a liability' but he's looking like another Trevor Lewis, not an offensive catalyst. Good player, but another example of developmental misfocus. Great, he can take a shift without being a liability--and we've turned another first round talent into a responsible 20-point-pace forward. Big whoop. Why can't we score again? What's the problem with taking a team with 60% of the possession in the offensive zone and putting our offensive players on the wing to turn that into goals? It's a HUGE disconnect between drafting and development and NHL system at this point and maybe it's in process but it's largely disjointed based on the above. We're currently saying we're drafting speed and skill but we're developing and deploying like the 2015 'possession' Kings and benching anyone that won't comply.

Looking forward to seeing what happens on this homestand. Hopefully GV gets sent down so he can at least play, but won't be surprised at all when he's Ontario's 3C getting limited minutes and just wasting away until we trade him for magic beans and watch him succeed with an organization that can go "hey, you know what? This guy isn't a great skater so we're going to put him with monsters like our version of Danault and Iafallo and on the PP" instead of "Tkachev lost his check so you're benched for three weeks."

 

[Mats26]

It's really simple, there is an embarrassment of riches here, all within the same age range. Not everyone is going to stay with the Kings. Vilardi was the first one up, and due to the amount and quality of players literally right behind him, he has to take advantage of his opportunity and claim his spot.

He hasn't. And because of the queue breathing down his neck he won't have the time to ease into a spot being held for him. He has to show a willingness and ability to work on the flaws that have kept him from establishing himself as a NHler, and that probably needs to happen in Ontario.

Nobody is being rushed or ruined, its just the state of affairs when you have more quality than spots.

Sounds eerily similar to what was said about Clague and yet here we are...he is the 2nd best scoring D man after Doughty.

 

[Schmooley]

That isn't really it though, he hasn't earned top 6 time

Yea Brown has really taken over games this year no one else should have a chance in that spot. Arvidsson only has one more goal than Vilardi this year playing next to Kopitar.
These guys earned their role from how great their play was in the past. JAD played great this past year and earned a one way ticket to Ontario.
There is not really any way a prospect is earning their way into the top six right now. Vilardi has not helped himself especially how he did not run away with the 2c slot last season and they went out and got Danault because of it. But one season during covid is a very short leash for a rookie center thats expected to play a selke caliber game.

 

[Mats26]

I'm fine with giving Vilardi a few games in Ontario to get his confidence back up. Ontario is good this year so he's not going to a tire fire. Just get his legs back under him and build him back up. We probably put too much pressure on him last year and we need to ease him back in. I still firmly believe he's the most talented prospect that we have and I don't want to toss him aside when he's not producing all at once.

We shouldn't underestimate the impact Wrobo can have on Vilardi if we send him down for a while. There are still 67 games left to be played for the Kings. He can still participate for 40 games down the stretch.

 

[KopitarFAN]

Sounds eerily similar to what was said about Clague and yet here we are...he is the 2nd best scoring D man after Doughty.

True. All a matter of circumstance and who takes advantage, last year he (Clague) and Tobi were supposed to split games, but Tobi made it so they couldn't take him out. Now, a couple guys have gotten hurt, and Clague has made himself a center piece going forward (especially with Walker out for the year).

 

[bland]

He's an offensive center that was being used as a defensive 4C and he's unable to make any adjustments if he's not allowed to play. Continuing to hold the numbers from the team's first 7 games against him means he will never get in the lineup. How does he go about 'earning' that time?

Part of development is playing, coaches putting you in a position to succeed. He's getting neither. And that's without discussing what most of us believe is his future, time at wing. Instead he's being held responsible for his play as a 4c during the teams worst stretch with a first-time NHL russian winger and whoever else they wanted to rotate in.

he's didn't do himself any favors during that stretch, but people are overlooking his entire body of work and the organization's mis-utilization to blame his entire line's early season failures on him when there's plenty of sample size of him doing more.

Again, after years and years of developing Dwight Kings, this organization finally has weapons at their disposal and they want to turn them all back into Dwight Kings...sure guys need to grow and develop all around games, but this organization doesn't seem able to, or willing to, see what guys truly have when put in positions to use their skillsets. They have to do so against their will, and Kale Clague is a good example this year. So is Kupari--everyone is drooling over his ability to 'move up the lineup' and 'not be a liability' but he's looking like another Trevor Lewis, not an offensive catalyst. Good player, but another example of developmental misfocus. Great, he can take a shift without being a liability--and we've turned another first round talent into a responsible 20-point-pace forward. Big whoop. Why can't we score again? What's the problem with taking a team with 60% of the possession in the offensive zone and putting our offensive players on the wing to turn that into goals? It's a HUGE disconnect between drafting and development and NHL system at this point and maybe it's in process but it's largely disjointed based on the above. We're currently saying we're drafting speed and skill but we're developing and deploying like the 2015 'possession' Kings and benching anyone that won't comply.

Looking forward to seeing what happens on this homestand. Hopefully GV gets sent down so he can at least play, but won't be surprised at all when he's Ontario's 3C getting limited minutes and just wasting away until we trade him for magic beans and watch him succeed with an organization that can go "hey, you know what? This guy isn't a great skater so we're going to put him with monsters like our version of Danault and Iafallo and on the PP" instead of "Tkachev lost his check so you're benched for three weeks."

Dwight King? They just want him to not be a possession liability so they lesson his minutes while getting him adjusted to the league. He just didn't run with the ball yet. He didn't fumble it, he just hit a rut, got down on his game and endured a period of unproductive play.

He isn't being poorly treated by any stretch, he is a struggling kid. That's it. He just can't afford to get caught behind Byfield and Kupari if he wants to stay a center, and Turcotte is right behind him. All these guys see themselves as centers and that's how they have been slotted by the organization so far. Shifting to wing is an adjustment he can make outside the NHL while still a waiver exemption. If he wants to stay up the middle, yeah, his path probably takes him out of Los Angeles some point soon.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Dwight King? They just want him to not be a possession liability so they lesson his minutes while getting him adjusted to the league. He just didn't run with the ball yet. He didn't fumble it, he just hit a rut, got down on his game and endured a period of unproductive play.

He isn't being poorly treated by any stretch, he is a struggling kid. That's it. He just can't afford to get caught behind Byfield and Kupari if he wants to stay a center, and Turcotte is right behind him. All these guys see themselves as centers and that's how they have been slotted by the organization so far. Shifting to wing is an adjustment he can make outside the NHL while still a waiver exemption. If he wants to stay up the middle, yeah, his path probably takes him out of Los Angeles some point soon.

If it was just that, they wouldn't have tossed AA--arguably one of the biggest possession liabilities in the league for years upon years, including last year with the Kings--right up next to Iafallo and Danault (hell, we even saw it in AA's first game back when he was out protecting the lead, Danault was begging him for a stick, and AA just spun around in circles, leading to a goal against). That shows me they understand covering for a guys weaknesses and they're willing to do it for some--the question is why not for GV? Maybe it's in the name of development--but the rest of the smoke doesn't seem so.

He's a struggling kid, absolutely--but he's being treated differently. We can probably talk about accountability/treatment till we're blue in the face, though, since it's more philosophy than science, but he's getting Clague'd right out of town pretty hard right now. This is how you end up with missed evaluations like Kupari > Vilardi. I can't think of another team with such a propensity for slapping away talent staring them right in the face. We're not talking about Josh Ho-Sang here, we're talking about a kid who was once seen as top 3 in his class and fought all the way back from a back injury sidelining him from hockey for the better part of two years and here we are trying to force him into a checking role and bemoaning his failures. Like what the f***, I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here. I guess this is what some of us were worried about--our development staff can churn out just-a-guys like it's going out of style, but they're utterly f***ing lost about what to do with elite abilities.

 

[cyclones22]

AA is a good counter-attacking specialist. But he is already starting to show that he has no clue where to be on that second line. He looks clueless half the time in both zones.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

It's truly getting to the point where the more 'down' the org is on a prospect and the more complaints there are about him not fitting or whatever the more I believe they're actually a really good player that will experience success elsewhere. This is shades of Boucher, Zhitnik, and more. I shouldn't have to have PTSD flashbacks of talent mismanagement 25 years later and starting with one of their teammates running it.

 

[ibleedkings]

Why not try Gabe on Kopi's wing for 5 games? Would hurt and Brown isn't doing **** right now. TM doesn't have the balls to do it that's why. We saw how long he tried Kaliyev there. I'm very frustrated with the staff.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

Why not try Gabe on Kopi's wing for 5 games? Would hurt and Brown isn't doing **** right now. TM doesn't have the balls to do it that's why. We saw how long he tried Kaliyev there. I'm very frustrated with the staff.

This team has collected 15 out of the last 16 points and you are 'very frustrated' with the staff?? Get off the computer and go get some fresh air, dude.

 

[Basilisk]

Trade Vilardi & I'll fire you!!!

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

This team has collected 15 out of the last 16 points and you are 'very frustrated' with the staff?? Get off the computer and go get some fresh air, dude.

I love you but I don't get why people keep saying this. It's a macro thing, not a micro thing. "we won so the decisions don't matter" only applies to the Cup imo.

If people can be positive when we're losing, it's entirely appropriate to be critical when we're winning, especially when there are several-year trends and a future at stake, and some very clearly still poor decisions happening (i.e. Maatta getting absolutely crushed out there and still being exalted).

 

[Fat Elvis]

Meanwhile Tkachev has 9 assists in 5 AHL games.

He really is an amazing playmaker, but the guy just doesn't shoot. Hopefully they're working on that in Ontario.

 

[bmr]

He really is an amazing playmaker, but the guy just doesn't shoot. Hopefully they're working on that in Ontario.

He totally has a shot. If you look at some of his Youtube highlights, he has been very effective with it. If anything you can use him as a PP specialist and it will be leaps and bounds ahead of where we are right now.

 

[Vino]

So is Kupari--everyone is drooling over his ability to 'move up the lineup' and 'not be a liability' but he's looking like another Trevor Lewis, not an offensive catalyst. Good player, but another example of developmental misfocus. Great, he can take a shift without being a liability--and we've turned another first round talent into a responsible 20-point-pace forward. Big whoop.

Kupari another example of developmental misfocus? Like how? After the draft Kings let him play in Finland, where he played against men and played a lot and was productive. 2nd year after draft he played in the AHL (even streght, PP-time), then came injury. When he was healthy (3rd season after the draft) Kupari played in the AHL (1st line, 1 PP-unit, also some SH-time) and got a cup of coffee in the NHL (7 game, 1st NHL-goal). Now he is playing in the NHL 11-14 minutes per game and getting PP2 -ice time. How your mind Kinks should have developed him?

Kupari is 21 years old young man, a rookie. He has played 20 games in the NHL and you're saying that he is "example of developmental misfocus". Have you ever thought, that he is not a top6-talent? That Kupari's ceiling is a good, reliable, 25 point per year 3rd line center/winger?

Trevor Lewis was a f***ing useful player, a true team player. If Kupari turns out to be as good and as useful player than Lewis was, I'm more than happy.

 

[SufferingSelfCreated]

How can we be so badly misusing Vilardi, while simultaneously rehabbing Lias Andersons career? The answer is Lias is utilizing his skills more effectively. Same management. Both under performing high 1st rounders. One's turning it around, the other isn't.

Now I might be eating crow soon. I hope I am. Maybe they'll move him around and he'll find success over this coming home stand.