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Is There a Case For Kucherov > Ovechkin?

BoatParadeCaptain said:
Based on your apparent maturity level you’re obviously too young to have been around back then, but pre-injury Stamkos (which is what the adults here are talking about) was very much comparable to Ovechkin and was in fact outplaying him at a younger age and on far worse teams.
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You can keep on asking people how old they are, but everyone you’re responding to has been on this forum 10-15 years… we’re all old enough to remember Stamkos and Ovi as rookies…

There are no facts to support your opinion, or at least you haven’t brought any to the discussion.
 
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BoatParadeCaptain said:
Ovi’s teams were perennial division winners while the Bolts were last place or close to it. Again, if you were alive back then, saw them play, and actually had a clue of what you were talking about, you’d have known that.

And don’t call me a troll just because I’m destroying you in this debate. Not my fault you lack the capacity for an intelligent rebuttal. Resorting to ad hominem attacks is simply the latest proof that you’re out of your depth. Take my advice son: quit before this just gets even more humiliating for you.
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How many times are going to go after people's age? We're not talking about the Broad Street Bullies here, we're talking about 10-12 years ago, 90-95% of the forum remembers.
 
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94 Oil Drops said:
Is there a case for Sakic > Lemieux?

Didn't think so.
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TIL Sakic peaked arguably as high as Lemieux in both the regular season and playoffs while winning more.

Of course Ovi for career is comfortably ahead but they are atleast similiar caliber of players, depending on what you prefer, at their best. Something that, of course, cannot be said for Sakic and Lemieux.
 
Clownfish said:
I feel like people forget what prime Ovechkin was like.
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The 'edge of your seatedness' of that version of the player was like nothing I've fully seen since. Even today's most remarkable movers and rushers don't often leave you wondering if the play is going to leave with a goal or something being hit through the glass, but early prime Ovechkin could do next to anything you wanted to see even after the puck was stolen from him and he became a torpedo.
 
I commented here before, but absolutely 100%. He's now passed Ovi in 100pt seasons with 5 and is again a more complete offensive player in every way, shape or form that it's seriously not even close and somewhat laughable. He has a monster playoff resume with 160pts and IMO has the possibility to break the 200pt playoff barrier in the next couple of years. Ovi passing Wayne in goals doesn't negate anything for me in the slightest
 
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JFedol said:
I commented here before, but absolutely 100%. He's now passed Ovi in 100pt seasons with 5 and is again a more complete offensive player in every way, shape or form that it's not seriously not even close and somewhat laughable. He has a monster playoff resume with 160pts and IMO has the possibility to break the 200pt playoff barrier in the next couple of years. Ovi passing Wayne in goals doesn't negate anything for me in the slightest
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Ovechkin wasn't always the rather stationary and opportunistic goal scorer he is now.

In his first five years, he was as good an all-around offensive talent as there was. If you compare his best five or six seasons to Kuch's, they stack up well, and he has a longer prime and better career as of now.

You can argue Kuch has the better playoff career, but I think he has quite a long way to go to surpass Ovechkin.
 
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GlitchMarner said:
Ovechkin wasn't always the rather stationary and opportunistic goal scorer he is now.

In his first five years, he was as good an all-around offensive talent as there was. If you compare his best five or six seasons to Kuch's, they stack up well, and he has a longer prime and better career as of now.

You can argue Kuch has the better playoff career, but I think he has quite a long way to go to surpass Ovechkin.
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Oh I know, don't get me wrong. Ovi from 06-10 was a monster lol and the undisputed best player in the world, and he does have a longer and better prime + the overall career, but Kuch's resume (RS + playoffs) just stacks up way better IMHO when you look at it with a wide perspective if that makes sense even with the Rockets and the 2 less MVP's (he got robbed last year) that Alex has on him. The what if game is annoying and it applies both ways but Kuch just like McDavid should be sitting at 7/8 100pt seasons by now if it wasn't for COVID (2019-20 ) or timely injuries (2021/2021-22) ruining his prime. There's no way in hell current Ovi would've been producing like that, 50+ goals be damned. Kucherov is a point production monster akin to McDavid, Jagr, Gretz and Lemieux, his playmaking and IQ is light years ahead of the competition. He's a lock for 120pt seasons when healthy and in the ZONE, The fact this his game is less reliant on speed and more on IQ is a great factor that could lead to him producing very well until his late 30s to maybe his early 40s. Ovi's goal totals are disgusting but 50+ goals are just not more impactful when compared to consistent 100pt seasons.

And again, it's obvious that goals 100% hold way more value and...... you may see it as him having a long way to go, but Kuch in my eyes had already surpassed Ovechkin when he had those 3 years (2020-2022) of elite playoff production only rivaled by Gretzky and Lemieux. Made back to back 30pt playoff runs look so damn easy, he at one point had 18pts in the first 2 rounds of the 2021 playoffs while skating like pure dogshit lmao. He was insanely clutch and just completely eviscerated and dominated the competition with clear ease like it was nothing during those 3 years. Sneaky and deceptive as hell, pure accuracy and complete passes, multiple chances generated each shift with his playmaking. Peak Ovi probably would've rivaled that production though but Kuch was something else.

The 100 assist season last year and this 100pt season without PP merchant Stamkos as his personal cheatcode just reinforces that he is a beast on his own and a 1 man army that can carry anybody. He's 31 now but he could end with 10+ 100pt seasons when it all said and done.

All in all, I would take Kucherov over Ovechkin if I was building a franchise
 
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A better comparison is Kucherov or Malkin. Ovi has so much longevity on Kucherov that’s it’s not really an argument. Kuch has certainly accomplish a lot, but he hasn’t hit 800 games yet.
 
With another Hart + Ross this season and a couple of other Hart top 5 finishes, yes.

Realistically, Kucherov has been miles better in the playoffs and his style of play will be favorable to him in his twilight years.
 
Summarized this in another thread but if we take Kucherov’s body of work and end it with this season, he would essentially have to have a completely separate hall of fame worthy career starting next season to try to catch Ovi. Like even that might not be enough.

Incredible player, but the guy’s got 4 trophies. Take away Ovi’s 9 Rockets and he’s still got more than double the hardware. Ovi almost has as many goals as Kucherov has points. What are we even doing here.
 
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Why are people saying no?

Ovechkin is the better goal scorer and more physical...but almost everything else is kucherov. Kucherov is the much better puck handler/stick handler. He's also a better skater. Ovechkin used to have the power and speed once he got going, but kucherov was always a better skater in tight and quick cuts and faking one way and going the other, etc. kucherov is the much better playmaker, not even close..

Like the gap between their Ovechkin and kucherov in scoring ability seems to be smaller than the gap between kucherov and Ovechkin in their playmaking ability.

Not to mention look at their playoff stats.

Ovechkin is under a point per game while kucherov is well over a PPG...so there's a playoff clutch factor too.

It's a lot closer than people think. Wouldn't be surprised if kucherov retires with a better PPG and is seen as the better OVERALL offensive player. Ovechkin will obviously be seen as the better goal scorer though.
 
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Kucherov is a lock for top 3 in points this year. It would be his 5th time. Amongst active players top 3.

McDavid- 8 (1,1,1,1,1,2,2,3)
Crosby - 8 (1,1,2,3,3,3,3,3)
Kucherov - 5 (1,1,3,3,x)
Ovechkin - 5 (1,2,3,3,3)

These are the only active players to do it 5 or more times. Draisaitl at 4. A few more at 3 (Malkin, Kane). MacKinnon is the only other active player with a shot, but this is just his second season.

If you go back a generation Jagr was the only one to do it (7x). Some big names like Sakic, Yzerman, Selanne, and Forsberg didn't quite make it. Post Lafleur/Dionne Gretzky and Lemieux are the only others to join.

7 players across 55 birth years (1951-2006). Kucherov in some pretty rarified company.
 
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Perfect_Drug said:
I Love Kuch.

But he's 31, and not at 1000 points yet.
He's not likely to hit any of those all-time numbers to enter the conversation.
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Wasn't Crosby 29.5 when he hit 1000 points...and he started at 18.

Kucherov started at 20...so being 2 years behind Crosby's pace would make sense...

Ovechkin was born in September 1985 and hit 1,000 points in January 2017 at the age of 31.5.

The argument you're making doesn't really make sense. I think only McDavid has gotten to 1,000 well before 30 in recent memory. No one is saying kucherov is better than McDavid.
 
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