Is the Golden Knights' problem Jack Eichel?

[tsujimoto74]

meh, not really. if they stayed healthy they would be cup contenders. I don't think they need to make much changes, signing Petro was probably not the smartest though.

If they stayed healthy, Vegas would've had to cut ~$10M from their roster to be cap compliant. You can't design your team to abuse LITR until the playoffs and then blame injuries when you don't make the playoffs. Injuries can either be part of your team's strategy for success or an excuse for its failure, but they sure as hell can't be both.

 

[Dirty Dog]

meh, not really. if they stayed healthy they would be cup contenders. I don't think they need to make much changes, signing Petro was probably not the smartest though.

No I mean it as a fact—they couldn’t ice a healthy team because of the cap. And for most of the season, they would not have been able to ice a healthy stone, eichel, and patches at the same time.

Yea stone got hurt, but they literally replaced him with eichel. They couldn’t ice both at the time…

You can’t point to injuries when injuries are the only way to ice the team because it was constructed with several major contracts and no depth

 

[Rufus T Firefly]

Would Are work if you were considering the Knights as a collective group though? Like as out of all the group, Jack Eichel is the problem?

No, because in the sentence "the Golden Knights" is a genitive construction that describes the subject "problem". The verb "is" in this sentence corresponds to the subject and not the genitive modifier "the Golden Knights" which describes the subject. So whether the Golden Knights are thought of as a singular entity or a collective entity doesn't play a role here as it is not the subject and will not correspond to the verb.

Similarly, if you remove "Golden Knights" from the sentence, you still have a functioning sentence: "Is the problem Jack Eichel?". That shows that "Golden Knights" is not the subject but only modifying the subject, so again it will not affect the verb conjugation.

"Are" would work if "the Golden Knights" was the subject, like the sentence: "Are the Golden Knights the problem for Jack Eichel?". But a sentence like that might be deserving of its own thread

 

[MetalheadPenguinsFan]

Jack Eichel’s problem is Jack Eichel.

 

[Vegas07]

No I mean it as a fact—they couldn’t ice a healthy team because of the cap. And for most of the season, they would not have been able to ice a healthy stone, eichel, and patches at the same time.

Yea stone got hurt, but they literally replaced him with eichel. They couldn’t ice both at the time…

You can’t point to injuries when injuries are the only way to ice the team because it was constructed with several major contracts and no depth

The injuries were a problem months before Eichel was ready to play and even before he was traded to the team. So yes, we can point to the injuries. The team even started 1-4 and already had several key players missing.

Even with Eichel out just getting Stone and Paciotetty out there at the same time was a challenge. And even when players played they were often injured and they played worse than their usual performance.

 

[Vegas07]

If they stayed healthy, Vegas would've had to cut ~$10M from their roster to be cap compliant. You can't design your team to abuse LITR until the playoffs and then blame injuries when you don't make the playoffs. Injuries can either be part of your team's strategy for success or an excuse for its failure, but they sure as hell can't be both.

Or maybe the team had a strategy that failed and the injuries are a reason for the failure. Just because Stone and Lehner were playing, it doesn’t mean they were healthy.

The Knights just barely missed the playoffs. A few extra points in the standings would have made the difference when a team like Dallas can’t beat Arizona.

Of course, I think this Knights team would have gotten destroyed in the playoffs anyway.

 

[HockeyGuy1964]

No, it just goes to show how important goaltending is.
Even a good team can't overcome atrocious goaltending.

 

[Dr Pepper]

No, it just goes to show how important goaltending is.
Even a good team can't overcome atrocious goaltending.

I actually think Thompson should be commended for how well he did this week, with his back to the wall, so to speak.

Absolute monster in the shootout, it's a shame the rest of his team couldn't come through for him or give him ANY kind of support there.

EDIT: Well....not a complete shame.....I'm glad they didn't, since it helped Dallas fall backwards into a playoff spot. Thanks for not showing up, Vegas!

 

[tsujimoto74]

Or maybe the team had a strategy that failed and the injuries are a reason for the failure. Just because Stone and Lehner were playing, it doesn’t mean they were healthy.

The Knights just barely missed the playoffs. A few extra points in the standings would have made the difference when a team like Dallas can’t beat Arizona.

Of course, I think this Knights team would have gotten destroyed in the playoffs anyway.

Obviously the strategy failed, but you can't build a team that relies on LITR to have the roster it does and then cry "if only we were healthy!" later. If the team were healthy, it would've had to become a fundamentally different team.

It's like designing a house around the idea of an open concept living space and then crying that there aren't enough walls separating the rooms. You made it that way on purpose.

 

[Gormo]

No. The Knights problem was that their 3 stars (Pacioretty, Stone and Eichel) all played less than half the season. The media trying to turn bad injury luck into a eichel hit piece is hilarious.

I agree that you can't just blame one player, but I would argue you can't just blame injuries.

Some very questionable decisions over the last couple years, firing Gallant then hiring De Boer, the treatment of players like Fleury, Schmidt and Dadonov, and a wildly inconsistent level of play all season.

On top of all of this you have one of the worst examples of salary cap (mis)management in recent history, making it that much more difficult to fix any roster problems.

 

[Vegas07]

Obviously the strategy failed, but you can't build a team that relies on LITR to have the roster it does and then cry "if only we were healthy!" later. If the team were healthy, it would've had to become a fundamentally different team.

It's like designing a house around the idea of an open concept living space and then crying that there aren't enough walls separating the rooms. You made it that way on purpose.

The team just needed Stone out. I remember reading posts saying we were all going to see Stone get magically healthy by game 1 of the playoffs. Nobody said Pacioretty and Martinez were going to be out too, for example, or that Lehner would be playing when he needed surgery.

Before Eichel returned the team didn’t need to have anybody else out, yet in game after game it was rare to see the same roster 2 nights in a row.

When you just need to have Eichel out until February, and then Stone out until the playoffs after Eichel returns, obviously it’s not part of the plan when Pacioretty misses 43 games, for example. Or when multiple defensemen are hit with injuries and miss a huge number of games. Or when 2nd, 3rd and 4th liners miss tons of games.

Our fans aren’t really as upset about the injuries as you might think however. They’re still more upset about the Fleury/Lehner situation. After the arrogance they have displayed over the years I think our front office deserves to have this blow up in their faces.

 

[Vegas07]

I agree that you can't just blame one player, but I would argue you can't just blame injuries.

Some very questionable decisions over the last couple years, firing Gallant then hiring De Boer, the treatment of players like Fleury, Schmidt and Dadonov, and a wildly inconsistent level of play all season.

On top of all of this you have one of the worst examples of salary cap (mis)management in recent history, making it that much more difficult to fix any roster problems.

I’ve seen Knights fans repeatedly say the team hasn’t been winning since the Fleury trade, say Lehner sucks, say our coaching sucks, so there are definitely a lot of people not just blaming injuries (not that I totally agree with those takes either though).

 

[Phillybean]

Eichel isn't the problem, there are a few problems but I'd point to management as the biggest one. What made the Knights so great was their depth, but they kept chasing the big fish, depleting their prospects, damaging their depth and ending up in cap hell as a result. I'm sure with a full off season of training, Eichel will come back healthy and go back to being a top 10 player in the league but their ability to ice a complete team around him will be tough. They are now a very top heavy team, which can work if you have a strong prospect pool, but they don't.

To make matters worse, to clear cap, there is a good chance they will have to send picks/prospects which will make matters worse.

As much as a feel good story it was, I think it's going to be a rough few years for the team. I don't see them ending up better than Calgary, Edmonton or LA next year and could see the Canucks and Ducks pass them next season or the year after as well.

 

[Dr Black]

Last night against St Loius, Jack Eichel had 2 goals and 1 assist and was named the game's 1st star.

So he stepped up his game and registered some points the day AFTER they are eliminated from the playoffs.

 

[Ace]

The injuries were a problem months before Eichel was ready to play and even before he was traded to the team. So yes, we can point to the injuries. The team even started 1-4 and already had several key players missing.

Even with Eichel out just getting Stone and Paciotetty out there at the same time was a challenge. And even when players played they were often injured and they played worse than their usual performance.

Knights were one point out of first place in the division when Eichel debuted. Then the long term ir shell game happened.

 

[Vegas07]

Knights were one point out of first place in the division when Eichel debuted. Then the long term ir shell game happened.

At the time the top of the division was pretty weak though.

 

[Stephen]

Last night against St Loius, Jack Eichel had 2 goals and 1 assist and was named the game's 1st star.

So he stepped up his game and registered some points the day AFTER they are eliminated from the playoffs.

Points night, baby!

 

[Stephen]

Eichel isn't the problem, there are a few problems but I'd point to management as the biggest one. What made the Knights so great was their depth, but they kept chasing the big fish, depleting their prospects, damaging their depth and ending up in cap hell as a result. I'm sure with a full off season of training, Eichel will come back healthy and go back to being a top 10 player in the league but their ability to ice a complete team around him will be tough. They are now a very top heavy team, which can work if you have a strong prospect pool, but they don't.

To make matters worse, to clear cap, there is a good chance they will have to send picks/prospects which will make matters worse.

As much as a feel good story it was, I think it's going to be a rough few years for the team. I don't see them ending up better than Calgary, Edmonton or LA next year and could see the Canucks and Ducks pass them next season or the year after as well.

Like you said, what made the VGK recipe so compelling was actually the pack rat mentality, punching above their weight in reputation, but undone by their video game roster building mentality dating back to before Jack Eichel. Some of the moves just felt like big splashes for the sake of big splashes and messed with the culture they had.

 

[serp]

The fact Eichel was had just 1 assists and was -5 in the 6 Vegas games before they got eliminated and instantly puts up 2 goals and 1 assist in the game afterwards shows to me the guy does not deal well with pressure. Vegas played him heavy heavy minutes like 20-23 minutes in those 6 games and he produced pretty much nothing.

 

[Fearnot]

I doubt most of the people here would've left their computer chairs by now let alone played in the NHL like Eichel has following a disk replacement. Vegas will be back next year healthy and I bet all their play will be massively elevated compared to this year.

 

[Montag DP]

I doubt most of the people here would've left their computer chairs by now let alone played in the NHL like Eichel has following a disk replacement. Vegas will be back next year healthy and I bet all their play will be massively elevated compared to this year.

Works for me, since the Sabres have their first-round pick this year. Thanks Jack!

 

[Dirty Dog]

Eichel was good for Vegas…except that stretch they needed him the most. Chalk it up to coincidence, but something to keep an eye out for

 

[Martin Skoula]

The team just needed Stone out. I remember reading posts saying we were all going to see Stone get magically healthy by game 1 of the playoffs. Nobody said Pacioretty and Martinez were going to be out too, for example, or that Lehner would be playing when he needed surgery.

Before Eichel returned the team didn’t need to have anybody else out, yet in game after game it was rare to see the same roster 2 nights in a row.

When you just need to have Eichel out until February, and then Stone out until the playoffs after Eichel returns, obviously it’s not part of the plan when Pacioretty misses 43 games, for example. Or when multiple defensemen are hit with injuries and miss a huge number of games. Or when 2nd, 3rd and 4th liners miss tons of games.

Our fans aren’t really as upset about the injuries as you might think however. They’re still more upset about the Fleury/Lehner situation. After the arrogance they have displayed over the years I think our front office deserves to have this blow up in their faces.

But still, it's not "if only we were healthy we'd be in the playoffs" it's "if we were selectively healthy at the exact times and with the exact players that let us most effectively abuse a loophole".

Cheering for the team being 100% healthy all season is cheering for forfeiting the season and likely getting massive fines and draft pick penalties.

 

[Stephen]

I actually wonder if Bill Foley will be a voice to push for a soft cap or luxury tax?

 

[wunderpanda]

wonder what vegas gets for eichel when he demands a trade in 2023