Is Slafkovsky the worst #1 pick ever ?

[waitin425]

I think Cooley was the pick, and I do expect the Habs to regret not taking Cooley at the end of the day. That's not a slight against Slaf, who should become a 30g 60p PWF. His progression has been good this year, but he's playing a much easier position with much better (and more consistent) linemates. And Cooley's still outproducing him.

Cooley has twice as many primary points at 5v5:

Slafkovsky
4g 13p 7 primary points
1.16 p/60
0.63 primary p/60

Cooley
4g 15p 14 primary points
1.46 p/60
1.36 primary p/60

What is a primary point? Goal and primary assist?

 

[tarheelhockey]

He did on that play. Maybe Sid will get him next time.

He schooled Letang, but Crosby was in control of that rush. His goal is to force Slav to rush along his left side; watch Crosby’s stick and skates, he is giving Slav no option to send the puck to his teammate on the right. He’s doing this because the Hab defender is skating back up the left side to cover, so forcing the rush to go in that direction eliminates any chance of an odd-man break to the net. While Slav makes his turn up the boards, you can see Crosby gesture to Letang that he’s supposed to pick up the puck. Crosby briefly stops moving his skates because he’s no longer attempting to keep pace, as his assignment is simply to create light back pressure while marking the trailer. If anything, this sequence shows Crosby doing his usual job of being a coach’s dream and forcing an opponent to make the most difficult play.

Letang on the other hand got completely turnstiled, which is where Slavkovsky comes off looking great in this clip.

 

[Frank Drebin]

I think Cooley was the pick, and I do expect the Habs to regret not taking Cooley at the end of the day. That's not a slight against Slaf, who should become a 30g 60p PWF. His progression has been good this year, but he's playing a much easier position with much better (and more consistent) linemates. And Cooley's still outproducing him.

Cooley has twice as many primary points at 5v5:

Slafkovsky
4g 13p 7 primary points
1.16 p/60
0.63 primary p/60

Cooley
4g 15p 14 primary points
1.46 p/60
1.36 primary p/60

Thats a pretty narrow search filter. If the difference between taking player one vs player two is 7 ES primary points, good luck to the scouts.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Thats a pretty narrow search filter. If the difference between taking player one vs player two is 7 ES primary points, good luck to the scouts.

I'm just trying to compare apples to apples

21 primary points vs 13 primary points at all strengths.

Cooley has more primary assists (15) than Slafkovsky has total assists (13) and primary points (13).

And he's doing that with a revolving door of linemates as a rookie center.

 

[BLONG7]

He's playing at a 50+ point pace over the last 20 or so games, which is not bad at all for a 19 year old. He might never be a 90 or 100 points offensive dynamo, but he seems like he was the correct pick at #1 at the very least. Nemec is super impressive too, but a 6,3 potential power forward with great playmaking is a pretty rare breed.

Every once in a while, an unbiased post, that actually makes sense......
Thx

Letting the hate flow for 50 pages seems a little much.

The kid is 19 and heading toward a pretty decent career, which will be absolutely fine with habs fans.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

I can tell you all, very sincerely, that 88 games into his career, it's over. GG. Goodnight sweet career. It is with astute and distinguished accountability that I can firmly tell you that no player (in the history of the NHL) has improved after 88 games played in the league.

Let's also take a moment to mention that he is already 19 years old (past his prime). It's a fairly well known fact that a player's prime is 15 - 18 years old. He will only go downhill from here.

If they're lucky, the Habs can perhaps fetch a 4th rounder for him if they act fast. Good luck.

Great post.

But you know that a good numbers of posters will take that seriously...

 

[Frank Drebin]

I'm just trying to compare apples to apples

21 primary points vs 13 primary points at all strengths.

Cooley has more primary assists (15) than Slafkovsky has total assists (13) and primary points (13).

And he's doing that with a revolving door of linemates as a rookie center.

Its just super early, go back a few pages I was mocking the Slaf pick. He's a totally different player than he was in November. And he's developing rapidly.

As for Cooley, hes going to have to end up being a more effective player than Suzuki or Dach for this Montreal fan to regret not taking him over Slaf.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Its just super early, go back a few pages I was mocking the Slaf pick. He's a totally different player than he was in November. And he's developing rapidly.

Of course it is, but my opinion really hasn't changed since well before the draft.

As for Cooley, hes going to have to end up being a more effective player than Suzuki or Dach for this Montreal fan to regret not taking him over Slaf.

I would be surprised if Cooley didn't end up better than both of them.

What is a primary point? Goal and primary assist?

yes

 

[Frank Drebin]

Of course it is, but my opinion really hasn't changed since well before the draft.

I would be surprised if Cooley didn't end up better than both of them.

I know your opinion hasn't changed. I remember campaigning for Wright while you wanted Cooley.

If Cooley ends up better than Suzuki (I dont think Dach is a good comparable) I think thats a pretty decent pick at 3. It'll be fun to watch it play out now that Slaf isn't looking like an absolute bust anymore.

 

[waitin425]

yes

So, in the case of primary points, we don't track secondary assists? Regardless of how brilliant, that assist is, or how that assist may have been the one to set up the goal, it doesn't count in the stats you shared.

(ie. Player A makes a great pass to player B for a scoring chance, player C bangs in the rebound.)

Player A gets no points in this world.

Interesting justification for your argument.

 

[AvroArrow]

It does, actually brother-Hab. And like one song says: Takes a man to admit he's wrong. And lord knows we've all been wrong about prospects. Welcome to the Slaf show. What a show it's becoming.

Slaf misses a scoring chance and Habs fans are bragging about it, omfg LOL.

 

[LesCanadiens]

I'm just trying to compare apples to apples

21 primary points vs 13 primary points at all strengths.

Cooley has more primary assists (15) than Slafkovsky has total assists (13) and primary points (13).

And he's doing that with a revolving door of linemates as a rookie center.

Prove it. I debunked that notion back in December by going over every scoring play Cooley was involved in. And many of his points were secondary assists and/or PP points, and most of them involved Arizona's top players. Now maybe that's changed. But that was the case then. The post is in the Slaf thread on our board.

And until this past 30'ish or so days, Slaf was getting ZERO PP time and was playing with a guy who had at that time 2 goals all year (Anderson). Add to the FACT that Slafkovsky has clearly emerged as a very strong force both defensively and physically, even though I hoped for Cooley (over Wright, Slaf or Nemec), I wouldn't in a million years trade Slaf for Cooley.

I'd rather have the unicorn 6'3" 240lb, skilled winger who can skate and thinks the game at a very high level. Anyone still doubting Sfafkovsky's IQ at this point should question their own.

Your takes particularly as I've scanned through this thread, have been among the least accurate in your assessment of this player. And I know it's a guessing game, fine. But you're still trying to find ways to devalue this pick. Oddly enough, the pick the Devils wanted over all others if the rumors are true.

 

[AvroArrow]

Difference is other players have shown flashes of brilliance. This guys highlight moments are retrieving loose pucks.

On top of that, he wasn't even the consensus #1 pick, unlike other top prospects who drafted at the appropriate position. Ask Habs fans if they'd rather have Slaf or one of Nemec/Cooley. Dude only has 12 points and pacing for 29 over a full season, that's straight up atrocious for a #1 pick, especially in this crazy high scoring era. It would be like pacing for 15-20 points in the Yakupov era.

Since this was posted in December, Slaf has marginally increased his output. On pace for a whopping 33 points over an 82 game season. I don't know if I should laugh or feel bad for some of the Habs fans in this thread lol.

This isn't the flex you guys think it is.

 

[Vukotal Recall]

The reality is that Cooley might end up "better" or Slaf might or Nemec, etc. Bottom line is the troll take that Slaf is worst #1 pick ever is hot garbage.

 

[sansabri]

Since this was posted in December, Slaf has marginally increased his output. On pace for a whopping 33 points over an 82 game season. I don't know if I should laugh or feel bad for some of the Habs fans in this thread lol.

This isn't the flex you guys think it is.

do whatever you want. we're enjoying the progress

 

[Frank Drebin]

Since this was posted in December, Slaf has marginally increased his output. On pace for a whopping 33 points over an 82 game season. I don't know if I should laugh or feel bad for some of the Habs fans in this thread lol.

This isn't the flex you guys think it is.

13 points in 20 games since middle of December. A pretty decent pace.

Would we rather cheer for a team full of selfish overpaid superstars that can't get it done when it counts, and don't care?

Sure, but we all can't cheer for the Leafs. So give us this will ya?

 

[Lshap]

Since this was posted in December, Slaf has marginally increased his output. On pace for a whopping 33 points over an 82 game season. I don't know if I should laugh or feel bad for some of the Habs fans in this thread lol.

This isn't the flex you guys think it is.

13 pts in his last 20 games is a 53-point pace.

Small sample size? Of course. But his entire NHL career is a small sample size. He's looking stronger and producing better as the season progresses. Nobody cares about how he started; the only thing that counts is how he's trending.

 

[Sasha Orlov]

Since this was posted in December, Slaf has marginally increased his output. On pace for a whopping 33 points over an 82 game season. I don't know if I should laugh or feel bad for some of the Habs fans in this thread lol.

This isn't the flex you guys think it is.

He’s looked fantastic lately but I agree, weird time for a victory lap considering he still only has 20 points lol

 

[AvroArrow]

13 points in 20 games since middle of December. A pretty decent pace.

Would we rather cheer for a team full of selfish overpaid superstars that can't get it done when it counts, and don't care?

Sure, but we all can't cheer for the Leafs. So give us this will ya?

Instead you're bragging about a guy missing scoring chances and retrieving loose pucks lol, but sure try and derail

 

[Frank Drebin]

Instead you're bragging about a guy missing scoring chances and retrieving loose pucks lol, but sure try and derail

When you posted back in December, Slaf had 7 points in 29 games (pacing for 20 over 82) and literally looked like the worst number one pick ever.

Since then hes scored 13 in 20. A 53 point pace, plus hes looking night and day better.

We're not bragging, we're just happy.

Bragging would be bringing up the time the Canadiens embarassed your Leafs in the playoffs.

 

[Frederixx]

I think Cooley was the pick, and I do expect the Habs to regret not taking Cooley at the end of the day. That's not a slight against Slaf, who should become a 30g 60p PWF. His progression has been good this year, but he's playing a much easier position with much better (and more consistent) linemates. And Cooley's still outproducing him.

Cooley has twice as many primary points at 5v5:

Slafkovsky
4g 13p 7 primary points
1.16 p/60
0.63 primary p/60

Cooley
4g 15p 14 primary points
1.46 p/60
1.36 primary p/60

I was one of the first to laugh at the Canadiens for taking Slaf over Cooley few months ago. Thinking how good Cooley was and will be and bad I thought Slaf would be. I must say, how wrong I was. When judging talent, you have to project in the future and think how important they will be when they reach 22-23y. I still think Cooley will be a really good player, but as of today, I'm picking Slaf over him. He's a very special breed and has many tools to be dominant comes the playoffs (if they ever make them again).

 

[Prendan Brust]

Instead you're bragging about a guy missing scoring chances and retrieving loose pucks lol, but sure try and derail

Fans cheer for what they have... We have a young team and when we see some of our young players progressing, we cheer. Nothing shameful about that, that's part of following a sport team. You might feel it's your duty to police habs fans' enthousiasm but I think you're wasting your time.

 

[Jedub]

Doug Wickenheiser

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

So, in the case of primary points, we don't track secondary assists? Regardless of how brilliant, that assist is, or how that assist may have been the one to set up the goal, it doesn't count in the stats you shared.

(ie. Player A makes a great pass to player B for a scoring chance, player C bangs in the rebound.)

Player A gets no points in this world.

Interesting justification for your argument.

View attachment 813181

Neutral fan here, but the wrongness of your argument prompts me..

No, that’s not how statistical averages work. On average, goals>1st assists>2nd assists. Sure, a guy could theoretically have 20 second assists that are all amazing and more involved than 20 first assists, but that’s incredibly unlikely. A guy could also stop 100 goals against and score 0 points- that guy would be valuable, but again, statistical averages say that just doesn’t happen. It’s make believe to think that Slaf has outperformed in offensive production but it’s all in secondary points.

 

[LesCanadiens]

Neutral fan here, but the wrongness of your argument prompts me..

No, that’s not how statistical averages work. On average, goals>1st assists>2nd assists. Sure, a guy could theoretically have 20 second assists that are all amazing and more involved than 20 first assists, but that’s incredibly unlikely. A guy could also stop 100 goals against and score 0 points- that guy would be valuable, but again, statistical averages say that just doesn’t happen. It’s make believe to think that Slaf has outperformed in offensive production but it’s all in secondary points.

Some of the games I saw Cooley in, he was invisible all game long, but walked out with an assist. That's why pure stat-watching is highly dubious. Many games Slaf played before Christmas, he had zero points, but actually had strong games. It was clear to some of us just focusing on his game rather than his points, that he was on the verge.

Guys like Joe Thornton and Owen Nolan were fine examples of this. Very good comparables actually, both big guys, 1OA picks and both were amply below Slaff in PPG over the same number of games even as of October when lots of people/posts, like many when this clown thread started, were calling Slaf "the worst 1OA ever".

I remember both those players very well. And especially Thornton was a lot like Slaf was last year. Huge kid, clumsy, couldn't stay on his feet, "looked" (although I argue was not) lost and his ppg were horrible. And many fans, even Bruins fans, were already calling him a bust. I remember thinking it was wishful thinking as they are a bitter rival, lol...I could see that he was going to be a great player in the "glimpses". Add to all that that Slafkovsky is a Euro and his first time in N/A and playing on our rinks and smaller rink size,.

I never doubted this kid would prove naysayers wrong, and I put my money where my mouth was under a barrage of mocking smilies and worse. I did so from the very start. It was my assessment, And it was always possible I was wrong. I just didn't see it as I saw so much skill and smarts in those glimpses. And he was making amazing setups that were flubbed by guys like Anderson. Plus, he had the drive and right attitude. Which I say is the secret ingredient that separates the wheat from the chaff.