Is Sanheim a Top Paring D?

[landsbergfan]

Oh so now we are going to do the whole Pastrnak over Sanheim thing because some idiot tweeted it? yay

 

[Curufinwe]

Should of taken Pastrnak and Point.

 

[Striiker]

Drafting Patrick over Makar (without hindsight) isn't anywhere near as big a blunder as paying a first (14th overall) and 2nd (as well as an additional 'asset'), while simultaneously giving up a 2nd, and another asset, to make room for a UFA rental in Ristolainen.

So if people want to dunk on Hextall for the hindsight factor, I REALLY hope they're ready to come back here in a few years and talk about how Fletcher absolutely bungled this draft by not drafting Player X, taken at 14th overall or later, and opting for a teerible defensemen in Risto instead.

It really is hilarious that Hextall's drafting getting ripped based 100% on hindsight but the disaster roster moves Fletchers made, that required zero hindsight and were accurately described as horrific at the time they were made, aren't allowed to be criticized.


Drafting a clear top 2 draft pick who ended up not working out after serious health issues? Unacceptable. Hextall's fault, even though the fanbase loved the pick at the time it was made.

Trading multiple top players and making the team significantly worse in all three zones? Not Fletchers fault. Must be the locker room leadership and culture.

I'll say it a million more times: the majority of this horrible fanbase deserves exactly the quality of team they're getting.

 

[Nizzle]

The historian's fallacy is an informal fallacy that occurs when one assumes that decision makers of the past viewed events from the same perspective and having the same information as those subsequently analyzing the decision.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Drafting Patrick over Makar (without hindsight) isn't anywhere near as big a blunder as paying a first (14th overall) and 2nd (as well as an additional 'asset'), while simultaneously giving up a 2nd, and another asset, to make room for a UFA rental in Ristolainen.

So if people want to dunk on Hextall for the hindsight factor, I REALLY hope they're ready to come back here in a few years and talk about how Fletcher absolutely bungled this draft by not drafting Player X, taken at 14th overall or later, and opting for a teerible defensemen in Risto instead.

Yes. Nothing at all Hextall did comes close to matching the Risto trade.

Fletcher's ceiling as a GM is the same as Hextall's, but his floor is way, way lower.

 

[JXC]

If you think Sanheim isn't "top pairing" caliber then your standard of top pairing isn't in line with reality.

There is video of both him getting roasted in Anaheim and his overtime play at San Jose if you need to watch it again. He’s not top pair material.

 

[Starat327]

Woof.

At least we confirmed the second part of your statement, @Beef Invictus

 

[Ironmanrulez]

Yes. Nothing at all Hextall did comes close to matching the Risto trade.

Fletcher's ceiling as a GM is the same as Hextall's, but his floor is way, way lower.

We see Fletchers ceiling now with our franchise. Make the Owner happy and dont be fired from his job! Get paid is all he can do for himself. Love himself, be true to himself! I see nothing more in his ceiling!

 

[Curufinwe]

Cause top pair dmen never make a mistake in OT. Right.

He's still leading this team in ES TOI, and has the best ES GF% of any of the the regular dmen despite logging all those tough minutes. Almost 10 points higher than his usual partner.

Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

 

[deadhead]

We see Fletchers ceiling now with our franchise. Make the Owner happy and dont be fired from his job! Get paid is all he can do for himself. Love himself, be true to himself! I see nothing more in his ceiling!

Every GM makes the owner happy, it's called "doing what the boss tells you to do."

This isn't about being asked to do something immoral, it's about the fact that the owner's business judgement, no matter how bad, overrides his managers' judgements. And Scott is the agent for the owners. He calls the tunes.

If the CEO (the owner) lacks vision, the whole organization will flounder.

The Flyers are stuck in a time warp where they think it's the 1990s forever and they merely have to show up to be a Cup contender, and don't have to wander in the wilderness like most teams. 1989-1994 was the last time they committed to a real rebuild. They then made the playoffs 15 of 16 years, including two trips to the Finals.

 

[Starat327]

Dave Scott told Fletcher to make thenflyers a profitable business entity again - most likely, anyway. Unlike some, I won't claim to have been in the room and heard these words for myself.

IF fletcher were smart, hed realize that Winning is what makes people come to games, and be invested in the team(or acquiring a franchise talent, which were not in a position to do). He made it harder for the team to win, and thus, failed at his job. The end.

 

[deadhead]

Dave Scott told Fletcher to make thenflyers a profitable business entity again - most likely, anyway. Unlike some, I won't claim to have been in the room and heard these words for myself.

IF fletcher were smart, hed realize that Winning is what makes people come to games, and be invested in the team(or acquiring a franchise talent, which were not in a position to do). He made it harder for the team to win, and thus, failed at his job. The end.

He won, got them to the playoffs and the 2nd rd his second season after taking over a tire fire.
Then AV set the tires on fire again, but that's what happens when you try to win now.

What is more interesting is his conversations with Scott this season after he fired AV, did Fletcher patiently explain to Scott his experience in Minnesota, when you try to win now you mortgage your future?

Now there are times when you do make those moves, TB overpaid for Goodrow and Coleman, but that won them two championships, this year they had to strip a lot of talent from the team and have lost a lot of draft picks and prospects the past three years - but they started from a very high talent base.

Colorado overpaid for Kuemper, the problem wasn't the overpay, but the choice of goalies to target.

 

[Ironmanrulez]

imagine loosing 60% of the games and all in all the worst stats in the last 20 years but somehow defend this shitshow forever! Maybe i should go back to mute you. Its really pain for my brain

 

[Beef Invictus]

There is video of both him getting roasted in Anaheim and his overtime play at San Jose if you need to watch it again. He’s not top pair material.

Bobby Orr got toasted occasionally, as happens to every single player in the league in the history of the game.

You cannot name a single dman who doesn't get beat badly on occasion.

Like I said, if your standard for "top pairing dman" is this high then you're not looking for a real top pair, your looking for the two greatest dmen the league has ever seen playing together

That would be cool, but it's not real.

 

[Beef Invictus]

He won, got them to the playoffs and the 2nd rd his second season after taking over a tire fire.
Then AV set the tires on fire again, but that's what happens when you try to win now.

What is more interesting is his conversations with Scott this season after he fired AV, did Fletcher patiently explain to Scott his experience in Minnesota, when you try to win now you mortgage your future?

Now there are times when you do make those moves, TB overpaid for Goodrow and Coleman, but that won them two championships, this year they had to strip a lot of talent from the team and have lost a lot of draft picks and prospects the past three years - but they started from a very high talent base.

Colorado overpaid for Kuemper, the problem wasn't the overpay, but the choice of goalies to target.

Hart got them to the second round. They did this despite AV turning in a dog shit coaching performance where he tried to outdo Hakstol.

 

[JXC]

Bobby Orr got toasted occasionally, as happens to every single player in the league in the history of the game.

You cannot name a single dman who doesn't get beat badly on occasion.

Like I said, if your standard for "top pairing dman" is this high then you're not looking for a real top pair, your looking for the two greatest dmen the league has ever seen playing together

That would be cool, but it's not real.

Eric Desjardins was top pairing.

Chris Pronger was top pairing.

Mark Howe was top pairing.

Brad McCrimmon was top pairing.

Kimmo Timonen was top pairing.

Travis Sanheim isn’t even in the same vicinity as those guys. That 45 people here answered ‘Yes’ to the poll at the top of this thread shows just how far the Flyers have lowered the bar for their fans.

 

[Tripod]

#1 ≠ top pairing

 

[Beef Invictus]

Eric Desjardins was top pairing.

Chris Pronger was top pairing.

Mark Howe was top pairing.

Brad McCrimmon was top pairing.

Kimmo Timonen was top pairing.

Travis Sanheim isn’t even in the same vicinity as those guys. That 45 people here answered ‘Yes’ to the poll at the top of this thread shows just how far the Flyers have lowered the bar for their fans.

You're talking about 1D caliber dmen, not top pairing Ds.


You are aware that each of them (Howe and MacCrimmon aside) had partners, yes? Coburn for a while was a top pairing dman. The bar isn't as high as you're pretending. Pronger played with Carle. We didn't slop Pronger and Timonen together.

 

[Starat327]

You're talking about 1D caliber dmen, not top pairing Ds.


You are aware that each of them (Howe and MacCrimmon aside) had partners, yes? Coburn for a while was a top pairing dman. The bar isn't as high as you're pretending. Pronger played with Carle. We didn't slop Pronger and Timonen together.

Whatever you say, Dentist.

 

[Striiker]

Whatever you say, Dentist.

We should instead listen to the guy who’s wanted Giroux gone for years.

 

[Starat327]

We should instead listen to the guy who’s wanted Giroux gone for years.

Should trust the carpenter.

 

[Curufinwe]

Eric Desjardins was top pairing.

Chris Pronger was top pairing.

Mark Howe was top pairing.

Brad McCrimmon was top pairing.

Kimmo Timonen was top pairing.

Travis Sanheim isn’t even in the same vicinity as those guys. That 45 people here answered ‘Yes’ to the poll at the top of this thread shows just how far the Flyers have lowered the bar for their fans.

Good game last night, huh.

 

[JXC]

Good game last night, huh.

I didn’t get to watch, alas.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Should trust the carpenter.

 

[Curufinwe]

I mean, he's no Torey Krug.