Well it’s not exactly a hard call to make. All one has to do is watch the player in his prime and he looks far closer to what actual NHL players past and present describe than what half of HF will tell you.
Is Peter Forsberg underrated?
- Thread starter Ben White
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Well it’s not exactly a hard call to make. All one has to do is watch the player in his prime and he looks far closer to what actual NHL players past and present describe than what half of HF will tell you.
- Oct 10, 2007
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Overrated doesn't mean he wasn't a great HOF player.
Sure, sure, but what about him is overrated?
His playmaking skills are in the top 10 ever (4th in APG all time, playing in the DPE speaks for itself, including the eye test).
His shot - sure he preferred assists to goals, according to himself, but he’s got a higher GPG in the playoffs than Crosby and other greats.
His physicality- played a hard, sometimes ugly game that hockey fans loved.
Selkie-level defense.
Skated eights around other teams in their d-zone long before the Karlssons, Crosbys and Makar’s did. But he did it when other players used him as a sleigh.
Big-game player, stepped up when it mattered for both club and country.
Amazing playoff stats.
What does people tend to overrate?
- Oct 10, 2007
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Overrated, imo, has more to do with comparisons that claim he was better than certain other great HOF players.
Ok, but please elaborate. I’ve seen some people comparing him to LaFontaine, which is quite ridiculous. He was also, generally, considered a top 5 player from, what, 1997-2006, when he was playing and healthy? Which is what should be considered in this THN list.
Who do you rank him with and why? I’ve seen the Sakic comparison, but Forsberg’s usually wins the “who was better?”-threads on the Avs forum, right?
Conspiracy Theorist
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No. He wins majority of polls. I think his defensive game was not as great as people seem to think.
At what point does durability become relevant? Did he have to play a physical style to be as effective offensively; a style that ultimately wasn't sustainable for a longer career?
Or was he injury-prone?
He gets overrated when people use his career APG to claim he is a Top 10 playmaker all-time when he is 80th all-time in assists.
He gets overrated when his regular season goalscoring is excused by his playoff goalscoring. You can't pump up his regular season assist resume and then expect his regular season goalscoring resume should be ignored.
I personally think his goalscoring overall is not a weakness in comparison to other players with similar point production which is in the Sakic/Yzerman/Trottier tier.
Is that particularly impressive though? Since I suppose Sakic led in points in many of the series that ended in 4, 5 or 6 games. What's the difference?
I figure it's more a matter of randomness luck - not really significant one way or another.
The Macho King
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I'm not an Avs fan, but, for career, I'd rank Sakic above Forsberg. I'd also rank Clarke, mentioned in this thread, ahead of him for career. I'm not going to do an all-time ranking here, the history of hockey forum would be a better place to do that.
The Macho King
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If I recall Forsberg came in around the 50s back then. McDavid and Kucherov have probably passed him among active players - a few others are probably making their cases.
I noticed that a lot of the answers I’m getting are still focused on the career of Forsberg, which is not what THN and the OP was talking about. I agree that Forsberg’s career is less than others because of the lack of games he played. Still, overall, he was a better player than a lot of the ones “ranked ahead of him” in the career-list.
There is a difference.
I also find it interesting that one poster totally disregards his APG and goals in the playoffs. That just sounds weird
There is a difference.
I also find it interesting that one poster totally disregards his APG and goals in the playoffs. That just sounds weird
Hockey Outsider
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I looked into it, and you're right. Forsberg generally outscored Sakic in seven game series, and the opposite was true for six game series:
- 4 games - Sakic 1 (1 tie)
- 5 games - Forsberg 2, Sakic 1 (2 tie)
- 6 games - Sakic 7, Forsberg 2
- 7 games - Forsberg 7, Sakic 2
EDIT - I also looked at it by series outcome. Colorado won 17 series. Sakic finished higher in scoring 8 times, Forsberg 6 times (with 3 ties). But Forsberg was ahead 5-3 in the losses. The pro-Sakic way to interpret this is, when he was at his best, Colorado kept winning. The pro-Forsberg was to interpret this is, he was more likely to go down swinging.
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Kucherov? In what way has Kucherov surpassed Forsbergs career.
It just surprised me more than anything, doesn’t hold any real significance to me.
The Macho King
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2 Art Ross against far better competition, better playoffs, 2 Cups plus another 2 Finals. Not as good as reverse hitter but by any other metric Kucherovs career value has surpassed Forsberg.
What makes his playoffs better? They’re similarly productive despite league average scoring levels being lower in Forsberg’s era and Forsberg had the better goal differential. Neither one has a Conn Smythe but both led the playoffs in scoring twice. Both teams were one of the dominant teams of the era with two cups and multiple long runs, though the Avs had to deal with the Red Wings that kept the from winning more.
Forsberg in his first Colorado stint from age 21 to 30 had a line of
133-57-97-154
Per 82 that’s 35-60-95
Kucherov since 15-16 when he first broke out with the triplets to last year, his same age 21 to 30 period, he has a line of
145-52-114-166
Per 82 that’s 29-65-94
But the league average GPG in the playoffs from ‘94 to ‘04 was 2.55
The league average GPG in the playoffs from ‘16 to ‘24 was 2.84
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That’s also just covering offense only. Considering overall play it’s really not even close. This is where I feel too many people miss the mark when ranking Forsberg against other players and claiming he’s overrated.
Fatass
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Kooch is great too. But these are very different players. So to say one impacted winning more than the other is difficult.
VistamarCroissants
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Hippasus
1,9,45,165,495,1287,
Could it be that Forsberg is more of a big games player while Sakic is more of a get it done early type of player?
Well also probably when they faced better teams the series went longer I assume, both were big game players though without a doubt, Sakic had no shortage of clutch moments and led the playoffs in OT goals at one point IIRC.
