Is Peter Forsberg underrated?

[Hallonbroder]

While looking for old news reports I stumbled upon this, which may explain why he is over- or underrated depending on where you land on the issue.

Game 2, WCF in the 2002 playoffs against the Red Wings:



Forsberg finished this series with 8 points, Sakic with 5.

ESPN.com - NHL - PLAYOFFS2002 - Forsberg's tour de force

Great read, thanks

 

[psycat]

Around Crosby tier player in terms of ability with much worse career. Used to be overrated but then was called overrated so much he got underrated.

 

[daver]

If by top line you mean the opposing top scorers then yes. They more often than not felt comfortable in trading offensive blows with Sakic, while focusing on trying to shut down Forsberg to the extent that it was feasible.

Their respective +/- records in the playoffs against powerhouse teams from the time should implicitly bear this out. If by top line you mean top defensive shutdown unit, then no. I don't have the time at the moment to link the newspaper clippings, but this has been discussed extensively and argued convincingly by quouipourquoi among others in the History sub-section of the forums.

While looking for old news reports I stumbled upon this, which may explain why he is over- or underrated depending on where you land on the issue.

It sounds like Sakic was facing Lidstrom in that series.

It looks like you can argue that Forsberg was the more consistent playoff performer while Sakic rose to the occasion in their two Cup runs and with his OT heroics (6 OT goals, 11 OT points vs. 3 OT goals, 6 OT points for Forsberg).

It should be very difficult to argue for one over the other. The Avs got to six ECFs; three of those were lead by Sakic, three of them were lead by Forsberg.

 

[daver]

Around Crosby tier player in terms of ability with much worse career. Used to be overrated but then was called overrated so much he got underrated.

You need to use PPG to compare Forsberg's best regular season to Crosby's two Art Ross seasons, and it was still not quite as good. If you compare PPG's from notable partial seasons, Crosby is clearly on another tier.

Crosby's performance through three rounds in 2009 is clearly superior to Forsberg's best 3 round performance.

 

[GoldenKnight]

Around Crosby tier player in terms of ability with much worse career. Used to be overrated but then was called overrated so much he got underrated.

It seems to me that the overrating continues.

 

[authentic]

Around Crosby tier player in terms of ability with much worse career. Used to be overrated but then was called overrated so much he got underrated.

More likely it used to be that the player he was was fresh in everyone’s memory now we have half of the posters here who grew up without seeing him in his prime.

It seems to me that the overrating continues.

He was around that for sure, if you believe otherwise then I would say the underrating continues.

 

[psycat]

It seems to me that the overrating continues.

The overrating of Crosby yes.

 

[authentic]

You need to use PPG to compare Forsberg's best regular season to Crosby's two Art Ross seasons, and it was still not quite as good. If you compare PPG's from notable partial seasons, Crosby is clearly on another tier.

Crosby's performance through three rounds in 2009 is clearly superior to Forsberg's best 3 round performance.

How so? Also Forsberg was a better two-way player and physically. Overall they are very close in terms of ability, especially at their peaks.

 

[Hallonbroder]

It seems to me that the overrating continues.

I strongly disagree with you, but who cares, right? BTW - did you know that by the time Crosby reached 151 playoff games (which is Forsberg’s total playoff games played) he had less points (like, 1 or 2) and waaaay less goals? This is interesting since Forsberg did this with 3 players using him as sleigh dog, and he actually was a better gaolscorer than Crosby when it mattered

 

[sr edler]

Forsberg and Bure get overrated when they are given credit for things they did not do due to injuries and these things can include levels of play above what they actually reached. There is something about unfulfilled careers that gets people's imagination going.

There's nothing unfilled about Forsberg's career. He was a 1st team all-star C 3 times which is as many times as your precious Crosby and Malkin, and as many times as his teammate Sakic. If you were there in the late 90s and saw it, you know. He was also a 3rd team all-star C one season in the 90s behind two other obscure 90s players, Gretzky and Lemieux. What's most funny to me about Forsberg debates on this site is how many people pretend his peak was in the early 00s.

Colorado also doesn't get past LAK in the 2001 playoffs without Forsberg because Sakic was injured and played subpar hockey for most of that series.

Bure's also not a mysterious player. Voted best forward at the first pro Olympics in 98, also owner of the longest point scoring streak (16 games) outside of the revolving 80s (and 3rd all time) in a single SC playoff run. Guy was an animal.

 

[daver]

There's nothing unfilled about Forsberg's career. He was a 1st team all-star C 3 times which is as many times as your precious Crosby and Malkin, and as many times as his teammate Sakic. If you were there in the late 90s and saw it, you know. He was also a 3rd team all-star C one season in the 90s behind two other obscure 90s players, Gretzky and Lemieux. What's most funny to me about Forsberg debates on this site is how many people pretend his peak was in the early 00s.

Colorado also doesn't get past LAK in the 2001 playoffs without Forsberg because Sakic was injured and played subpar hockey for most of that series.

Bure's also not a mysterious player. Voted best forward at the first pro Olympics in 98, also owner of the longest point scoring streak (16 games) outside of the revolving 80s (and 3rd all time) in a single SC playoff run. Guy was an animal.

Ok, so where do you rate them then?

 

[Albatros]

Bure's also not a mysterious player. Voted best forward at the first pro Olympics in 98

Ackchyually that was '88

 

[authentic]

I strongly disagree with you, but who cares, right? BTW - did you know that by the time Crosby reached 151 playoff games (which is Forsberg’s total playoff games played) he had less points (like, 1 or 2) and waaaay less goals? This is interesting since Forsberg did this with 3 players using him as sleigh dog, and he actually was a better gaolscorer than Crosby when it mattered

Playoffs were also slightly lower scoring in general for most of Forsberg’s career compared to Crosby’s and he was the better defensive player as well with a physical pedigree. So those who claim they are not the same level of player in terms of ability really aren’t thinking straight.

 

[authentic]

Think about it this way, Crosby is the best player in the regular season and playoffs of his generation by far, and if anything Forsberg was actually better offensively in the playoffs while having the clearly superior all around game and defensive impact. It’s honestly astonishing given this fact that people believe Crosby is in another stratosphere of talent and ability.

 

[Dingo]

I think the bigger divide here is that there are two very polar schools of thought on here on what constitutes a good player - some really need career totals and healthy seasons in order to give full credit, and others dont.

Guys who have missed significant time are going to be 'overrated' by the second group in the eyes of the first group.

For me, Forsberg was, over a long stretch of hundreds of games, second only to Jagr in point production while being much more of a 200ft player. Thats all I need, personally. Just how I see sports.

 

[Ceremony]

I'm not reading all of the thread but it's a tremendous failing on behalf of the membership that HFBoards can regard Peter Forsberg as anything other than the most complete, perfect hockey player imaginable.

 

[MTL Dirty Birdy]

On the recent THN top 75 best players of all time list Peter Forsberg was ranked at place 48. Sakic was on place 33. Yet I now for a fact, through various experiments on here for example, that Avs’ fans almost unanimously think Forsberg was the better player. And the key is how this list was headlined - it says “best players” not “greatest players”. I’m pretty sure all hardcore hockey fans make a distinction between those two terms. Forsberg is top 5 in assists per game all time, he’s top 10 in ppg as well as playoffs points per game all time, this while playing in the dead puck era. That’s pretty insane. Has Forsberg become underrated?

Personally I think it’s more a matter of people forgetting just how good he was. At the time he wasn’t underrated. I even feel he overshadowed Sakic often with his talent and dominance

 

[Stephen]

I watched Lafontaine when he was a kid, he was great as a teen, not saying they had the same career. Just saying Forsberg gets more what ifs than most. The better than Sakic crowd captures this.

I don't think there are that many what if's with Peter Forsberg. At least not in my mind. He had a reasonably long career where he was unavailable due to injury for long stretches and thus didn't play that much, but we did see him from 22 to 35-ish. But it was all killer, no filler for the time he played, he won championships, took home personal hardware and racked up the stats in the Dead Puck Era. He was special elite, it just didn't leave a Cooperstown stats line.

Only thing missing from his resume is the completionism experience of a Nicklas Lidstrom, but those long, perfect and healthy careers tend to be a little drama free and kind of boring in their own way.

 

[Hallonbroder]

It’s nice reading some of the more recent takes on this topic, seeing that the world hasn’t fully gone to s**t yet

 

[thadd]

He was the best player in the league for a few years, but his peak didn't last nearly as long as Sakic or Yzerman.

Pretty sure most people rate him high enough.

 

[Dingo]

Around Crosby tier player in terms of ability with much worse career. Used to be overrated but then was called overrated so much he got underrated.

thats really basically it, lol.

 

[Casper The Soy Ghost]

One of the players you wish could've stayed healthy for longer durations. Such a force om the ice. Loved the physicality and his mentality. Dude was insanely competitive!

It's too bad his body started breaking down so badly... I wonder what his career stats in the NHL would've been in terms of games played, points, points per game and if he'd won more cups.

 

[Dingo]

I watched Lafontaine when he was a kid, he was great as a teen, not saying they had the same career. Just saying Forsberg gets more what ifs than most. The better than Sakic crowd captures this.

Personally, I 'what if' for Laffy, too. He was a tremendous player that i considered every bit as good as Yzerman, Oates, and later Sakic as Joe came on stronger soon after.

I what if for Lindros and Bure, too.

I do have Pete higher than Pat, btw. But not by some huge amount. Counting stats from different eras can mislead us - Pete was much more consistently a top 10 producer and especially a per game producer, and he was a more complete player, as well.

Effin loved Lafontaine with Mogilny on EASports. So fast! They were so fun. Wish they could have stuck around for a few years with Hasek in net.

 

[Dingo]

One of the players you wish could've stayed healthy for longer durations. Such a force om the ice. Loved the physicality and his mentality. Dude was insanely competitive!

It's too bad his body started breaking down so badly... I wonder what his career stats in the NHL would've been in terms of games played, points, points per game and if he'd won more cups.

i dont think anyone who started in 94 could have epic career stats, no matter how healthy. Just the wrong time. Jagr had some years beforehand, and was better offensively than Pete and played FOREVER, so he is the exception. However, a healthy Forsberg, even with the spleen and femur still being there, just had his feet held together, would likely have had another Ross in 2003-04, and probably been a top 5'r several more times, maybe a runner up or two, while still garnering considerable Selke votes.

But, like Stephen said above - we DID see him at his best. It isnt a what if. He was a top 5 point producer, with the ability to sneak out a Ross, while being probably the most complete forward consistently. Barkov with MacKinnon's production? Something like that.

 

[Casper The Soy Ghost]

i dont think anyone who started in 94 could have epic career stats, no matter how healthy. Just the wrong time. Jagr had some years beforehand, and was better offensively than Pete and played FOREVER, so he is the exception. However, a healthy Forsberg, even with the spleen and femur still being there, just had his feet held together, would likely have had another Ross in 2003-04, and probably been a top 5'r several more times, maybe a runner up or two, while still garnering considerable Selke votes.

But, like Stephen said above - we DID see him at his best. It isnt a what if. He was a top 5 point producer, with the ability to sneak out a Ross, while being probably the most complete forward consistently. Barkov with MacKinnon's production? Something like that.

And much like MacKinnon he was amazing in the playoffs.

Nice comparison btw.