Is McDavid Top 10 For You All Time Already? If Not How Much More Does He Have to do?

[boopronger]

	Crosby	McDavid
Hart	2	2
Lindsay	3	3
Ross	2	4
Smythe	2	0
Postseason All Star C (1st)	4	4
Postseason All Star C (2nd)	4	1
Richard	2	0
Total	19	14

I expect McDavid will catch him soon, but it won't be this year.

It seems inevitable that McDavid passes Crosby in Harts and Lindsays this season, with a good chance to widen the gap by mid-decade. That's a huge deal. There's a massive difference between 2 Harts (19 players have done this) and 4 Harts (3 players have done this). At that point, the only thing keeping him from a Lemieux or Orr level legacy would be Stanley Cup rings -- and that might be the hardest hill to climb.

Mcdavid won the Richard last year

 

[EXTRAS]

He will 95% end his career top-10 all-time. But he's not there yet.

He has the absolute top-end peak to get there (Rosses, Pearsons, Hart, likely Rocket this year). But he's not even remotely close enough with career totals to be able to get top-10 attention in my opinion.

Even if this year is his last Pearson/Ross etc. He'll still accumulate top-10 point, goal, Hart finishes and just raw point/goals that will bring him to the top-10 category.

As of right now, he's essentially Jagr's top-end peak, but with:
-> 500 less goals
-> 1,100 less points
-> 2 less top-10 Hart finishes
-> 2 less top-10 goal finishes
-> 4 less top-10 point finishes

TLDR: He's got the peak level needed. Just needs to accumulate more high-end finishes and raw stats.

Orr essentially retired at 26 and is considered top 4.

(Not sure if mcdavid is top 10 yet, but just saying this argument may not Hold up)

 

[Tobias Kahun]

	Crosby	McDavid
Hart	2	2
Lindsay	3	3
Ross	2	4
Smythe	2	0
Postseason All Star C (1st)	4	4
Postseason All Star C (2nd)	4	1
Richard	2	0
Total	19	14

I expect McDavid will catch him soon, but it won't be this year.

It seems inevitable that McDavid passes Crosby in Harts and Lindsays this season, with a good chance to widen the gap by mid-decade. That's a huge deal. There's a massive difference between 2 Harts (19 players have done this) and 4 Harts (3 players have done this). At that point, the only thing keeping him from a Lemieux or Orr level legacy would be Stanley Cup rings -- and that might be the hardest hill to climb.

Oops, i'm dumb and didnt look at the date.

Add 1 hart linsday ross and richard to McDavid though.

 

[boopronger]

The Stanley Cup is 130 years old.

If you want an all time list, you want to have players from all time.

Sakic over Forsberg is a very easy choice. Comparable quality of primes, but Sakic's was for over twice as many games.

Same with Malkin. He's had 2 healthy seasons after age 25.

Crosby over McDavid is a pretty easy choice. McDavid only has 6 healthy seasons. Crosby has 7 years as a Hart finalist to McDavid's 4.

McDavid will likely overtake him, but he hasn't yet.

The cherry picking is strong with this one

 

[boopronger]

How are you going to have an all time list without all time?

Would you ever see a major publication make a baseball list without Babe Ruth? A boxing list without Jack Johnson?

The Hockey News Top 100 included Howie Morenz and Frank Nighbor.

Every single HoH list included Morenz, Nighbor, and Taylor.

If you're going to make an all time list and exclude entire eras then you aren't making an all time list.

Half this thread would exclude Abe Lincoln from an all time presidents list because of the year he was born in.

What silly logic. If you make an all time list but all the players at the beginning were total garbage you dont include them (not saying they were, although theres no chance they could compete today). This isnt grade school where you have to pick one player from each year. If you dropped Mcdavid in the league in the early 1900's he would destroy the league. The players have gotten much better.

 

[boopronger]

He's competing against a smaller group of Canadians than anyone else in 70 years. Today player base, he's competing against fewer than the late 80s early 90s.

Fewer competitors = easier competitions

Great so players from the early 1900's dont count then

 

[Connor McConnor]

He’s a top 10 talent but he isn’t top 10 all time yet. Clearly will be by end of his career, regardless of team trophies

 

[Connor McConnor]

He's competing against a smaller group of Canadians than anyone else in 70 years. Today player base, he's competing against fewer than the late 80s early 90s.

Fewer competitors = easier competitions

I generally appreciate your takes, especially when it comes to historical but this is downright absurd. To think that NHL talent is lesser now because Canadians aren’t as prevalent (this was always going to happen given population differences) makes no sense to me. Unless you’re an elitist and think that Canadians are just inherently better at hockey without considering other factors, the league has more talent now than ever.

 

[eviohh26]

I've got him at about 4 or 5 atm.

 

[Coffey]

Yes Frank Nighbor and his career 196 points is better than Mcdavid. You cant be serious

Obsession with old time players is always hilarious.

Grats you were the best dman out of 24 dmen in the league.

 

[Breakfast of Champs]

I've got him at about 4 or 5 atm.

For talent I agree he is probably top 5 all time.

For career accomplishments probably top 20? He will likely get into the top 10 and has a shot at top 5 if he can win cups and Smythe's .

I have a hard time saying Mcdavid has had a better career than the likes of Crosby, ovi, Lidstrom , Messier, Jagr, Lafleur, to name a few.

 

[JAK]

As of right now? All time? No, not even close.

Today's league just isn't as physical anymore in the regular season, if McDavid cannot lead a team to a Cup, no matter how many points he puts up in the regular season, it isn't going to help him get to the top.

 

[Video Nasty]

I have a hard time saying Mcdavid has had a better career than the likes of Crosby, ovi, Lidstrom , Messier, Jagr, Lafleur, to name a few.

Lafleur played 17 seasons. Ovechkin and Crosby are going to play at least 20, as did Lidstrom. Jagr and Messier played 24 and 25 respectively.

McDavid is halfway through season 9. He already has similar or more hardware than all of them. It’ll be crystal clear who has had the better career before this decade closes out, let alone when McDavid hypothetically retires in 2035.

 

[Castle8130]

It's hilarious that the argument here is that he needs to win a cup to be considered a top 10 player. There are 32 teams in the league and it has gotten much more competitive. The odds to win a cup now are 1/32 and the cap in todays game significantly hurts top-end players.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Mario Lemieux didn't win 2 Cups in a row? Interesting.

The only thing interesting was you not understanding what he wrote.

 

[Breakfast of Champs]

Lafleur played 17 seasons. Ovechkin and Crosby are going to play at least 20, as did Lidstrom. Jagr and Messier played 24 and 25 respectively.

McDavid is halfway through season 9. He already has similar or more hardware than all of them. It’ll be crystal clear who has had the better career before this decade closes out, let alone when McDavid hypothetically retires in 2035.

Like I said no denying the talent is top 5.

You act like playing 17-20 seasons at a high level is guaranteed, it isn't. If Mcdavid can play that long and win some cups (whether you like it or not they are given a lot of weight in all time rankings) and especially some CS trophies, he will pass those guys


For now his career isn't too 10

It's hilarious that the argument here is that he needs to win a cup to be considered a top 10 player. There are 32 teams in the league and it has gotten much more competitive. The odds to win a cup now are 1/32 and the cap in todays game significantly hurts top-end players.

It's like this in all team sports but we as fans still give major props for winning, especially having dominant runs en route to a cup.

It's not "fair" but that's the way she goes

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

You can't be a top 10 player all time without a championship.

 

[TheNumber4]

Yes he’s top 10 all time already. Even top 5.

 

[JAK]

It's hilarious that the argument here is that he needs to win a cup to be considered a top 10 player. There are 32 teams in the league and it has gotten much more competitive. The odds to win a cup now are 1/32 and the cap in todays game significantly hurts top-end players.

This applies to most top end players.

But not top 10 player of all time, if you want to be at the very top of the list, you have to be someone special.

Bernie Nicholls scored 70 and had 150pts in a season, and had 1200 points for his career. Not even in the hall of fame. Not the best example, but 1200 points doesn't get him to the hall of fame; McDavid without leading Oilers to a Cup would not even begin the conversation of whether he makes top 10 all time.

 

[TDotMassive]

No cups or Conn Smythe... not top-10, yet.

 

[TheSuperElite]

This applies to most top end players.

But not top 10 player of all time, if you want to be at the very top of the list, you have to be someone special.

Bernie Nicholls scored 70 and had 150pts in a season, and had 1200 points for his career. Not even in the hall of fame. Not the best example, but 1200 points doesn't get him to the hall of fame; McDavid without leading Oilers to a Cup would not even begin the conversation of whether he makes top 10 all time.

Wrong, because McDavid's highlights in ultra HD will outlive any of us. In 300 years, hockey fans will watch in awe and comprehend the dominance they're watching when they search up a 300 year old McDavid highlight reel, and nobody will even be thinking of looking for Bernie Nicholls.

 

[Oscar The Grouch]

Wrong, because McDavid's highlights in ultra HD will outlive any of us. In 300 years, hockey fans will watch in awe and comprehend the dominance they're watching when they search up a 300 year old McDavid highlight reel, and nobody will even be thinking of looking for Bernie Nicholls.

Exactly. The NHL exists to ENTERTAIN the hockey fan. Not to give Stanley Cups. McDavid is one of the most beautiful players of all time... Scoring video game goals all season long. The best goal scorer in the NHL.

No one cares about the Dave Anderchyucks, Bernie Nichols, or Austin Matthews of the day.

 

[MikeK]

He'll be the best player ever who never won a cup if he stays in EDM. That much is certain.

 

[LickTheEnvelope]

Too soon but has the tools

 

[JAK]

Exactly. The NHL exists to ENTERTAIN the hockey fan. Not to give Stanley Cups. McDavid is one of the most beautiful players of all time... Scoring video game goals all season long. The best goal scorer in the NHL.

No one cares about the Dave Anderchyucks, Bernie Nichols, or Austin Matthews of the day.

McDavid could be the Dionne of our generation, is Dionne a top 10 player of all time?