Is McDavid Top 10 For You All Time Already? If Not How Much More Does He Have to do?

[94 Oil Drops]

Easily! Draisaitl might get there too but time will tell.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

On his way to top 10.

Top 10 career so far but let's see him continue it.

Honestly might beat out Crosby for #5 spot. More amazing seasons as well as a cup win. This year has huge potential for a cup win.

And Yes winning a cup matters to be considered one of the best players ever.

 

[Nico Cauzuki]

aside from peak Lemieux McDavid is the most dominant player ive watched hes #2 in my books after #66

 

[Fataldogg]

Not even close yet...he needs to win ..great players make good teams great. To be beside Mario Wayne orr howe crosby etc he has to win ...

And what are great players supposed to make below average teams with bad contracts?

 

[blankall]

Declaring "X" player top "X" of all time this early into their career is so ridiculous. Let's take a look at Lindros, for example. He looked generational. Then he got hit in the head a few too many times, and his career was totally derailed.

McDavid is currently wining consecutive Art Rosses. Is McDavid on the level of Lemieux or Stan Mikita? Let it play out. Without a cup though, I'd have a very hard time counting any player in the top 10.

 

[Coffey]

Is McDavid on the level of Lemieux or Stan Mikita?

He already has more individual trophies than Stan.

 

[PostBradMalone]

RNH is no Chris Kunitz. Undrafted. Alex Burrows Undrafted. RNH # oa pick

Almost all of his highlights are him coming in the zone by himself.

I just picked this highlight pack randomly. I didnt watch all 10, but most are him on the rush. There is more to hockey than splitting the D on the rush. Sometimes if the D plays him right, he dishes it off for a tap in. But otherwise, thats it

I disagree. It seems every 2nd highlight goal from Crosby is him using the boards, his teammates , tipping. Variety. This is why I think this idea that McDavid is so obviously better than Bedard will be is a bit misplaced. Bedard is more like Crosby.

I have been watching Mcdavid every game for the first time in these playoffs. When his name is sounded, more often than not, he's rushing into the zone with speed. And even when he gets the puck in the zone, he rushes the net and if his plan A doesn't work, he will hand it off to a teammate. I just don't notice him setting up and tick tack toe play very often. Mcdavid is a 1 on 1 player. Or 1 on 5 if you will

Babcock on Sid vs Connor. Some players change their game as they get older. Maybe Connor will do that. But right now, he is a rush player.

North/south driving the net plays. Not all of them. There's some behind the net stuff.

Assist highlights

Jimmy status: rustled.

 

[RandV]

Hard to simply look at numbers vs. Orr though....he was a defenseman.

Player A - 657gm, 270g, 915pts - 2 Cups
Player B - 752gm, 573g, 1,126pts - 4 Cups

Just simply looking at the stats, if both of these players were forwards, I'm guessing most would consider Player B to be higher on the all-time list. However, I'm guessing 100% of people would have Player A higher on the all-time list (defenseman) than Player B (forward). Again....there is more that goes into it, but simply looking at the stats.

I generally don't think about where a player might be on the all-time list until they are done with their careers....so easy enough for me to say, don't know, think about it later. Perhaps with Crosby and Ovechkin you might start going there, but I still think I'd rather wait until their careers are done so you can compare with others whose careers are done. You can easily start making the case and it would be logical, my preference is simply to wait.

Another way to look at things.....players decline as they age, simple as that. So, a player between 18-30 may have 900 games and 1,300 points. But between 30-38, 500 games and 300 points. 1,300 points in 900 games looks better than 1,600 points in 1,400 games.

I guess to be more specific it's a matter of exceptionalism. On the one hand, Orr was good enough to be top 4 all time based on 9 seasons. Gretzky, had his career been cut just as short, would still be "the Great One". On the other hand, don't quote me on this but prime Steve Yzerman may not have been better than say Pat Lafontaine, but Yzerman makes the top list cut based on the strength of an exceptional 22 year career while Lafontaine fades into obscurity on a 12 year career.

So back to McDavid, with 8 career seasons and assuming he has another Hart and Lindsey trophy in the bag he has 5 Art Ross trophy's, 3 Hart's, 4 Lindsey's, and one Rocket. In terms of cumulative points with 30+ less games he's 115 points up on #2 Draisaitl and 170 points up on #3 Kane. I'd say he's 'exceptional' enough that he could have his knee destroyed next training camp and you don't need to wonder about a full career here. I mean playoffs aside (which is a much tougher standard in a 32 team league) he already has a better trophy cabinet than Crosby does.

 

[slapKing]

All I'm going to say is that if fans can't appreciate McDavid, they are simply out. Cause some of these takes are wild.

 

[TheSuperElite]

there seems to be a distinction between "best" and "greatest"

is he among the top 10 best players ever? easily. top 3? absolutely.

is he among the top 10 greatest players ever? easily. top 3? no, because cups.

 

[Donner]

there seems to be a distinction between "best" and "greatest"

is he among the top 10 best players ever? easily. top 3? absolutely.

is he among the top 10 greatest players ever? easily. top 3? no, because cups.

It seems like the distinction between "best" and "greatest" is pretty much merely the quality of teammates

Best means individual skill and ability

I can sort of get the Stanley Cups argument, but where it is a bit flawed to look at is quality of teammates. If you have a below average team around you, you have no control over that and one or two players dont win a cup.

I can see the Cups argument for someone like Joe Thorton, someone who had a really good team around them but could never get it done

On the flip side, if you have a player that is a top 25 "best" player, but they win 2 cups, does this elevate them to top 10 greatest player. Was it anything they did?

Is a top 10 "best" player with zero cups equal to a top 65 "greatest" player with 3 cups

 

[Mrb1p]

there seems to be a distinction between "best" and "greatest"

is he among the top 10 best players ever? easily. top 3? absolutely.

is he among the top 10 greatest players ever? easily. top 3? no, because cups.

Orr, lemieux, gretzky? Absolutely? Git the frick out of here.

Then you ignore Howe, Crosby, Morenz, Harvey, Hasek, Roy, Ovi, Jagr, Richard, Bourque and you say absolutely? Tf.

 

[Iggys Dome]

Yeah I’d say so. Longetivity and Cups factor in to it though, whether people like it or not.

Crosby is now a consensus #5 on most people’s all time lists, does he get there without 3 rings? Absolutely not.

 

[Cup or Bust]

Obviously he is one of the best hockey players ever seen, greatness career wise it's hard not to say he is top 10 just based on his accomplishments already but he still has a good 10 years to go and obviously winning or not winning a Cup will have somewhat of an effect on his perceived career greatness.

 

[daver]

Mario and Orr are in the Big 4 with abbreviated careers/full seasons.

McDavid is in the next tier of GOATs which could place him anywhere from 25 to 15 ( but not ahead of Jagr and OV), More prime seasons and some playoff success will dictate how high he goes.

 

[TheSuperElite]

Orr, lemieux, gretzky? Absolutely? Git the frick out of here.

Then you ignore Howe, Crosby, Morenz, Harvey, Hasek, Roy, Ovi, Jagr, Richard, Bourque and you say absolutely? Tf.

Orr? LOL It's McDavid all the way little brother.

 

[Jordan Belfort]

A player who gets 1 assist every game is top 10 all time? lol.

Funny how everyone pumps up McDavid when he’s gotten out scored by Draisatl and now Kucherov TWICE handily. Even mackinnon is out scoring him (and he also has a Stanley cup don’t forget)

 

[HighAndTight]

Having been a hockey fan for over 30 years and on this site for a long ass time, Ive never seen a harder pivot for a fanbase then going from Cups are the end all and be all to, meh Cups dont really matter.

 

[ImJustJokinen]

Orr, lemieux, gretzky? Absolutely? Git the frick out of here.

Then you ignore Howe, Crosby, Morenz, Harvey, Hasek, Roy, Ovi, Jagr, Richard, Bourque and you say absolutely? Tf.

We might as well simulate the seasons like the chel games and read numbers off the stats sheets at the end, if you don’t watch the product in front of you on a nightly basis.

Those guys, save for Hasek, Roy maybe, Gretz, Lemieux yes, are just not on his level, the way he can impact the game every shift.

 

[Draiskull]

Is Malkin top 100 yet?

 

[HighAndTight]

We might as well simulate the seasons like the chel games and read numbers off the stats sheets at the end, if you don’t watch the product in front of you on a nightly basis.

Those guys, save for Hasek, Roy maybe, Gretz, Lemieux yes, are just not on his level, the way he can impact the game every shift.

Maybe Roy?

How about Roy has more wins then McDavid has games played. Please think before you post.

 

[Saltcreek]

Having been a hockey fan for over 30 years and on this site for a long ass time, Ive never seen a harder pivot for a fanbase then going from Cups are the end all and be all to, meh Cups dont really matter.

Think of HF as a tabloid. Good for a laugh but there is very little intelligent conversation. People will use anything to discredit anyone. For example, look how this place reacted to the Oilers PP last year? McDavid and Draisaitl were being criticised for being too good at the power play. This year Tampa is doing very well on the PP and it is crickets...

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

A player who gets 1 assist every game is top 10 all time? lol.

Funny how everyone pumps up McDavid when he’s gotten out scored by Draisatl and now Kucherov TWICE handily. Even mackinnon is out scoring him (and he also has a Stanley cup don’t forget)

you're back! where have to been?
you went awfully quiet last year when McDavid cleaned up the individual Trophies

 

[The Moose]

I think when all is said and done, McDavid will be second in points behind Gretzky. He may even break the 2,000-point barrier. That will definitely make him top 10 overall, even if he doesn't win any cups. Add a cup or two, and he's easily in the top five. Add three or four, and the conversation will really become interesting.

 

[613Leafer]

He has the 4th highest era adjusted points per game of all time (but granted, that could decline as he plays seasons into his mid 30s). He also already has five Art Ross trophies - only five other guys have done that, and he just turned 27.

To me, he's projected to be a top 5 guy of all time, and in the conversation for top 2-3, assuming he continues to collect more Hart / Art Ross / etc trophies.

Not winning a Cup is really the big caveat right now, but I don't think plopping Gretzky, Lemieux, Howe, etc onto the Oilers over the past 5+ years in McDavid's place gets them a Cup either. They've generally had poor goaltending, a weak blueline, and poor depth - you really can't compare that to who Mario got to play with on the Pens or Grekzy got to play with on the Oilers when they won.

Coffey/Barrasso/Jagr/Murphy/Francis/Recchi >>> Nurse/Skinner/Draisaitl/Ekholm/RNH/Hyman, using the Pens as an example.