Is Keefe’s Job On The Line Against Chicago?

[notbias]

Just to enter some facts into evidence.

This Leafs start of 2-4-1 to start a year matches Leafs 2015 start where the Leafs finished 31st and last overall.

Leafs have scored 13 goals after 7 games which is 1.86 G/g and no Leafs team in a Salary Cap era from 2005 onward has ever produced this little offense including all the non playoff years.

But to answer the question ..No, Keefe is not getting fired should the Leafs lose to the last place Chicago Blackhawks which haven't won a game yet this year.

Just to enter some more facts into evidence.

Leafs have a PDO around 96.5 at 5v5.

Leafs are 6th in SCF%, 11th for HDCF% at 5v5.

Leafs are last in sh%.

Leafs are 21st in sv%.

Leafs are shooting about 5% lower than last year so far, that would translate to 12 more goals so far.

if this 7 game stretch happened mid-season most people would not care.

 

[17 Clark]

Just to enter some facts into evidence.

This Leafs start of 2-4-1 to start a year matches Leafs 2015 start where the Leafs finished 31st and last overall.

Leafs have scored 13 goals after 7 games which is 1.86 G/g and no Leafs team in a Salary Cap era from 2005 onward has ever produced this little offense including all the non playoff years.

But to answer the question ..No, Keefe is not getting fired should the Leafs lose to the last place Chicago Blackhawks which haven't won a game yet this year.

But the thing is if that happened beat Chicago Watch how many Fans flip the other way and call them the best thing since sliced bread

 

[DarkKnight]

The logical play is Shanahan will fire Dubas and hire a new GM - Shanahan will then slide back into the background - The new GM will make a few moves and allow Keefe to handle the team until he cant anymore - The New GM will have his opportunity to bring in his guy --- and then the clock starts on the New GM... Thats how it works Boys and Girls - !

The most logical is Shanny fires Dubas and assumes GM role for balance of season. Bringing in a new GM mid season is awkward. Either that or he promotes from within.

 

[forecheck]

The most logical is Shanny fires Dubas and assumes GM role for balance of season. Bringing in a new GM mid season is awkward. Either that or he promotes from within.

Agree - But I don't think Shanahan wants to expose himself .... He doesn't want to take ultimate responsibility and will insulate himself from the day to day management of the team - He can keep his Prez job and through others under the bus to the MLSE Board .

 

[bodechek]

He was offered an extension way too soon. This should of been a season to prove he deserves an extension after being out coached in the playoffs.

 

[DarkKnight]

He was offered an extension way too soon. This should of been a season to prove he deserves an extension after being out coached in the playoffs.

Exactly. People here were like “who gets excited about a coach extension” but they missed the point. It’s another message of keeping everyone comfortable, I mean god forbid there’s some accountability and feet to the fire in Dubas’ Leafs. Keefe was out coached two straight years, he doesn’t deserve any extension, he barely deserved his job, put up or get lost. That’s where we should be as an organization but instead it’s all about keeping things comfy.

 

[justashadowof]

I still say to fire the president right now and make the GM and his handpicked coach justify their existences to a neutral party with no investment in previous hiring decisions.

 

[ShaneFalco]

On the Mapleleaf Hot Stove pod cast they made a great point:

They're re-active no pro-active, the hunted rather than the hunter and they don't address issues - just gloss over them.

Matthews with his tone deaf comment about it just being a few games - please

 

[justashadowof]

As woke as Dubas is, and as much of a fraud as Shanahan is, they still both realize the team is a coach killer. Keefe stays until MLSE guts this fish.

Holy crap that was a firehose of truth in 2 sentences. I'll add that Dubas helped make the team into a coach killer paying the young stars before any team related accomplishments.

We're probably at the point where Dubas has to choose a side again: the coach or the players. We witnessed him actively lobby Shanahan for the privilege to fire the coach Shanahan had hired. Now, the star players are holding back more than they ever did with Babcock doing the full coach killer treatment. Dubas' handpicked coach is flailing and spouting nonsense to the press terrified to offend the talent.

 

[Buds17]

Keefe inherited a team with far more talent on paper than Wilson. I feel like some people here are trying to gaslight the rest of us. This is a team that since Tavares arrived was supposed to be a cup contender, not a team that is happy just to make the playoffs. They are carrying the weight of getting bumped from the first round five years straight and a massive collapse against Montreal last Spring. They looked lost and uninspired this year. A loss to Chicago combined with the previous four losses and the humiliation in Pittsburgh will be a statement from the players that they have given up on Keefe.

This team is more talented on paper and Keefe has accomplished (slightly) more with it and in a lesser time frame. I obviously expect more than just making the playoffs. I'd want significant changes if the team misses the playoffs or fails to win a round again. I just don't see Keefe being fired by the GM that he's coached teams for on three occasions...Not at this early stage, and especially not without Dubas (and Shanahan?) also being axed. Something is definitely wrong throughout if these players have given up on the coach already.

 

[rocketman588]

If you fire Keefe you fire Dubas at the same time.

Basically it's his choice to have gotten a team/ coach that fits his "preferred" style of keeping the puck around the perimeter/ neutral zone and never doing anything with it ever.

Looks good to his math boiz tho

 

[NightTrain1]

Honestly, I hope not.

I'm entirely sick and tired of this core and the amount of changes that have been made with this team over the last 4 years only to end up with the same result from the same core.

We have replaced the coaches....all of them. We have replaced the goalies, we have replaced most of the defense, we have replaced almost every single person in the forward group outside of Tavares, Matthews, Marner, Nylander and Reilly in the back.

And who are the highest paid and supposed to be relied upon players on the team beyond the goalie? Tavares, Matthews, Marner, Nylander and Reilly. Why do we sacrifice yet more people now that it is proven what the real problem is, just because it's easier?

Marners reputation here is absolutely destroyed. Even his most staunch supporters have been showing cracks in their support. I don't even think I hate the kid, but he needs to go for his own personal health and success and for our teams.

My god I wish Spezza was 28 years old instead of 38. I hated the Senators with an absolute passion in the early 2000's, but I love this guy. He plays with so much heart for us at league min and his skill is undeniable even at his age.

 

[SprDaVE]

Can't fire the players, might as well keep churning coaches until you do.

 

[CapspaceKiller]

Dubas already fired a coach less than 2 seasons ago. He should be blocked from doing it this time. He hasn't earned that rope.

 

[CupcakeSprinkles]

Oh 100% if we lose to both Chicago-Detroit there will be major changes coming in some form. Keefe/Dubas/Shanny fired? Big player moved? Really no idea.. but I don't think they'll wait for December similar to Babcock the leash is already short.

The Team hasn't been prepared since the round 1 exit to Montreal.. if early on there is signs of this happening I do think something will happen. A part of me wants this to happen so we can get the change needed. This group isn't right between the ears and a core shake-up is necessary.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Holy crap that was a firehose of truth in 2 sentences. I'll add that Dubas helped make the team into a coach killer paying the young stars before any team related accomplishments.

We're probably at the point where Dubas has to choose a side again: the coach or the players. We witnessed him actively lobby Shanahan for the privilege to fire the coach Shanahan had hired. Now, the star players are holding back more than they ever did with Babcock doing the full coach killer treatment. Dubas' handpicked coach is flailing and spouting nonsense to the press terrified to offend the talent.

Keefe embarrasses himself at this post game press conferences with his finding a silver lining in their poor performances. It reminds me of a parent that has a kid who is prone to tantrums and keeps pretending that everything is ok..."Johnny was just a tad upset when he knocked down all the cans in the supermarket, I think Loblaws shouldn't put displays of Campbells soup so accessible to small children and make it so dangerous"

Are you at the point that just saying "this is unacceptable" is enough to get them going? How many times can you say that and not do anything before the players realize it is acceptable because the coach is too afraid to do anything?

Take MM off of PP1 and put him on PP2...He would face the 2nd penalty kill which would give him some more space to do something.

 

[bodechek]

I don't know if it should, but if they do fire the coach and that does not spark the team, it is time to change the core and dynamic of the team

 

[Racer88]

Just to enter some more facts into evidence.

Leafs have a PDO around 96.5 at 5v5.

Leafs are 6th in SCF%, 11th for HDCF% at 5v5.

Leafs are last in sh%.

Leafs are 21st in sv%.

Leafs are shooting about 5% lower than last year so far, that would translate to 12 more goals so far.

if this 7 game stretch happened mid-season most people would not care.

No disrespect intended but do you honestly think the Leafs are playing great or even good right now?

 

[JT AM da real deal]

The most logical is Shanny fires Dubas and assumes GM role for balance of season. Bringing in a new GM mid season is awkward. Either that or he promotes from within.

I agree I think he flew down to Raleigh to give Dubie notice .. my guess 10 games left for him .. if it can't be turned around then Shanny takes over as GM for balance of year .. Keefer may stay in place as Shanny assesses players directly himself

 

[Rogue Leader]

In reality Dubas will never fire Keefe .. so Shanahan has to fire Dubas? But if Shanahan fires Dubas that is also pretty much the end of him in Toronto, since the Shanaplan would have completely failed.

 

[mydnyte]

I’m thinking that Keefe’s job security is on the line for both Chicago and Detroit. They are both soft opponents that any elite team should roll over. If the Leafs lose tomorrow, my guess is Keefe is done. Chicago is absolute roadkill. Not only is Chicago winless six games in, they haven’t even led in a game this season. A loss to the Blackhawks would stretch the Leafs losing streak to five games and would be as big an embarrassment as the loss in Pittsburgh. Shanahan isn’t going to fire Dubas and ownership is too distracted with a family feud to fire them both, and the core isn’t getting traded any time soon. Something would have to happen with a loss in Chicago and that something would almost certainly be sacking Sheldon Keefe. Even a win in Chicago might not be enough if the Leafs lose at home to Detroit.

To push this speculation thread even further out there, my guess is that Keefe is replaced by John Tortorella. Not because Tortorella is the right man for the job, but because management will be so angry at the Leafs over-paid core that they will want to punish the players with as brutal a coach as they can find. Sort of like saying, “You give up on two coaches because you don’t like head games and being yelled at? Well, here’s a nice quiet, mellow fellow for ya. Enjoy the rest of your f—king season.”

the short answer is NO
I'm not a fan of Keefe, but, statistically he has one of the best records for any NHL coach to start their career... I dont like the style he employs, nor do i like him benching one player, then calling out the 'star' players that he didnt bench but should have after the game in the presser.
you either have the stones to bench any 'star' player that deserves to sit not only Nylander who forever reason any time he makes a mistake is immediately reprimanded.
There is no coach out there right now that would do a better job, and even Trotz needed a great team to finally win it all. in Nashville, what did he do other than lose in the playoffs with great teams, that had the best defense in hockey and arguably the best goalie (at the time)
i'll sum it up, he started coaching at Nashville at 36 yrs old
1st 5 seasons zero playoffs
next 4 seasons, 4 1st round exits
next miss playoffs,
next (season 11) 1st round exit again
it wasnt until his 12th season in Nashville when he finally won his first playoff series and never made it out the 2nd round until he got a stacked Washington team.

So, i'm willing to cut him some slack, even though i'm not really a 'fan' ...though i do prefer him to Babs, who turned out not to be as good as advertised.

 

[mydnyte]

On the Mapleleaf Hot Stove pod cast they made a great point:

They're re-active no pro-active, the hunted rather than the hunter and they don't address issues - just gloss over them.

Matthews with his tone deaf comment about it just being a few games - please

Matthews misses the pre-season and those sucky games for as bad as they are, get you ready to play.
game one he looked like he was going to score 3-4 goals, but, that was all adrenaline, he wont be game ready for another few games at least.
...the rest of the team, has no excuse, and as long as the defense handles the puck like a grenade, it wont get any better ...and for goodness sakes, take a shot on the PP once and a while, and hit the darn net!! we likely lead the league in shots that missed the net

 

[Dreakmur]

There is no coach out there right now that would do a better job, and even Trotz needed a great team to finally win it all. in Nashville, what did he do other than lose in the playoffs with great teams, that had the best defense in hockey and arguably the best goalie (at the time)
i'll sum it up, he started coaching at Nashville at 36 yrs old
1st 5 seasons zero playoffs
next 4 seasons, 4 1st round exits
next miss playoffs,
next (season 11) 1st round exit again
it wasnt until his 12th season in Nashville when he finally won his first playoff series and never made it out the 2nd round until he got a stacked Washington team.

Nashville was an expansion team...

 

[Gabriel426]

Say Keefe is fired, it means the core once again tuned out the coach.

Babs and Keefe are not perfect but are they really so bad that players refuse to listen to them collectively?

What type of coaches are needed for the Leafs core? Should they bring in Crawford and hope AM listens to him like he did when he was 18, then hope AM will lead the way and the rest will follow AM leads?
Or someone like Torts in a All or Nothing bid. If it works great and it if doesn’t, let’s the tanking begin by trading all pending UFAs including Reilly.

 

[notbias]

No disrespect intended but do you honestly think the Leafs are playing great or even good right now?

Varies by game. I haven't been happy with some, been happy with others, and been kind of meh on some. I'd call them inconsistent right now, not terrible.