Is Jagr the greatest European player of all time?

[Randyne]

You brought up trophy count by teammates to try and diminish the amount Jagr won because he played with Lemieux.

No it was the answer to top3 finishes. Why try to diminish already poor hardware (comparing to Ovechkin)?
Ovechkin has 2x time more trophies than Jagr. Alone without any generational help. It should be more than enough to put him above anyone from Europe.
If it's not enough then try to comprehend this: without robbery it would be 2.44x times more. 22 awards vs 9.
3x Ross
4x Harts
3x Pearson
10x Rockets
1x Smythe
1x Calder
22 is 2nd all-time, higher only Gretzky.

I hate this logic.
Ovechkin is 9 goals away. He's either great enough to surpass Jagr today, or he isn't - +/- 9 goals makes no difference.

Because it's history. A rare man creates history.

 

[wetcoast]

Teammates hardware:
Ovi's - zero
Jagr's - zillion

Also Ovechkin was robbed by envy canadians. He should has 3 Ross; 4 Harts. So it's 11.

Look one can have an argument for Ovi but this argument actually doesn't stand up to scrutiny at all and if anything Canadian trophy voters have a pro Ovechkin bias but given your selective bias in this post you can't see what you won't look at?

Top1 PPG:
Ovi 3
Jagr 3

Top1 GPG:
Ovi 8
Jagr 1

Harware:
Ovi 18
Jagr 9

Also why do you downplay the capitals other players so much?

 

[independent observer]

my ranking for greatest ever

1. Gretz
2. Howe
3. Orr/Lemieux
4. Lemieux/Orr
5. Mcdavid
6. Hasek
7. Crosby/Bobby Hull
8. Bobby Hull/Crosby
9. Jagr/OV
10. OV/Jagr

I Have him as either 2nd or 3rd Greatest Euro all time with Hasek being # 1 for me

1) Lemieux (his peak was the highest and he would also dominate today)
2) Gretzky
3) Orr
4) McDavid
5) Jagr
6) Crosby
7) Ovechkin
8) Bossy
9) Hasek
10) Kucherov

 

[Sentinel]

I rank Ovechkin at 7 and Jagr at 10.

 

[ITM]

A lot of different lists here based on some amalgam of talent and championship. Jagr certainly qualifies on both. To the OP, is he the greatest European player ever? He's one (we know that). I don't know how to bridge Jagr against Hasek and Lidstrom.

For some lists I see McDavid ahead of Crosby. Not sure about that. But similarly, there are some who think Sergei Fedorov was the most talented. Some say the same of Peter Forsberg at his peak, and there's merit to the claim. Working out the list after my 1a/1b and 2a/2b owing to time be a deciding factor for the bs, I think

1. Gretzky
2. Orr
3. Howe
4. Lemieux
5. Dryden
6. Hasek


I think Dominik Hasek is the greatest European hockey player of all-time. If I was drafting in a Europe/North America format where the snake draft obligated alternating picks, my first European pick would be Hasek. All candidates have immense accomplishments, but I've seen them all in their prime, and none were as - he earned his nickname - dominant as Hasek.

In the span he played against the competition he played; he could be argued to be the best hockey player of his era. Remember, he beat Canada and Roy in his prime. At the Olympics, Hasek not Jagr was the deciding factor. His Sabres team had no business in the Finals against Dallas.

Easily Hasek for me.

I'm glad Ovechkin's getting his moment in the sun though.

 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Comapring Kurri to the 3 most are talking about, is like comparing Yzerman to Gretzky, Orr and Howe. Great player, but there really is no reason to include him in this conversation.

Yes, he's not better than Jagr or Ovechkin. I guess Ovechkin has eclipsed all European players.

 

[blueandgoldguy]

I would put Hasek above Ovechkin. Don't really need to think about it too much.

 

[Felidae]

At the very least I think we can all agree Lidstrom, Jagr, Hasek, Ovechkin are basically the mount Rushmore of European NHL players. They all have arguments for #1 though i personally have Hasek at that spot. Funny that the only position lacking is center.

 

[elFefino SVOBODA]

I'd go for Hasek personnally.
Also I think many here from the new generation never had the chance (unfortunately) to see him playing live and how he was dominant.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

I'd go for Hasek personnally.
Also I think many here from the new generation never had the chance (unfortunately) to see him playing live and how he was dominant.

Not just dominant his work was genius. There was an immense amount of novel thought in his game.

 

[amnesiac]

Hasek
Jagr
Ovi
Lidstrom
Forsberg
Malkin

 

[Sentinel]

A lot of different lists here based on some amalgam of talent and championship. Jagr certainly qualifies on both. To the OP, is he the greatest European player ever? He's one (we know that). I don't know how to bridge Jagr against Hasek and Lidstrom.

For some lists I see McDavid ahead of Crosby. Not sure about that. But similarly, there are some who think Sergei Fedorov was the most talented. Some say the same of Peter Forsberg at his peak, and there's merit to the claim. Working out the list after my 1a/1b and 2a/2b owing to time be a deciding factor for the bs, I think

1. Gretzky
2. Orr
3. Howe
4. Lemieux
5. Dryden
6. Hasek


I think Dominik Hasek is the greatest European hockey player of all-time. If I was drafting in a Europe/North America format where the snake draft obligated alternating picks, my first European pick would be Hasek. All candidates have immense accomplishments, but I've seen them all in their prime, and none were as - he earned his nickname - dominant as Hasek.

In the span he played against the competition he played; he could be argued to be the best hockey player of his era. Remember, he beat Canada and Roy in his prime. At the Olympics, Hasek not Jagr was the deciding factor. His Sabres team had no business in the Finals against Dallas.

Easily Hasek for me.

I'm glad Ovechkin's getting his moment in the sun though.

I agree that Hasek is the greatest European of all time. But in no universe I would put Dryden over him (or have it anywhere near the Top 10). He is not even a top 5 goalie for me.

 

[EazyE1]

Took 3 years off for KHL

2nd in points

Is still actively playing pro

That female tried to blackmail him after their affair - he said go ahead I don't care.

Rocks the best mullet/denim combo you've ever seen

If jagr isn't better he's definitely a lot cooler than the other top doggs =)

 

[Fatass]

A lot of great players from Europe. Maybe he’s a top 5 player period?

 

[Neil Racki]

Yes

 

[ITM]

I agree that Hasek is the greatest European of all time. But in no universe I would put Dryden over him (or have it anywhere near the Top 10). He is not even a top 5 goalie for me.

That's fine. But if we're taking greatness as a reflection of talent and accomplishment and we are allowing for greatness not to be limited to a shorter period of time (i.e Bobby Orr and Mario Lemieux), then what Ken Dryden accomplished is definitionally exceptional.

The only knock on him is longevity of career. Only two other teams won the Cup during his reign and the Canadiens stopped dominating the league when he left. Everything about Ken Dryden was exceptional, nigh-mythical.

In fact to the OP, I don't know if we've mentioned Vladislav Tretiak - speaking of mythical - who should be in the conversation as well.

 

[gimzo23]

I think it's between Jagr and Hasek

 

[paragon]

At the very least I think we can all agree Lidstrom, Jagr, Hasek, Ovechkin are basically the mount Rushmore of European NHL players. They all have arguments for #1 though i personally have Hasek at that spot. Funny that the only position lacking is center.

Not for long. Draisaitl is going to fill that void.

 

[Johnny Tomala]

1 - Hašek
2 - Jágr
3 - Ovechkin
4 - Lidström

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Took 3 years off for KHL

2nd in points

Is still actively playing pro

That female tried to blackmail him after their affair - he said go ahead I don't care.

Rocks the best mullet/denim combo you've ever seen

If jagr isn't better he's definitely a lot cooler than the other top doggs =)

I think he holds the record for pro goals scored? Thought I read that somewhere? Too lazy to look.

 

[JJ68]

the eye test tells me Jagr over Ovie. Ovie is a great goal scorer yes, but it's not like Jagr couldnt score goals when players were standing on his back with a 2 line pass rule that made everything so damn congested.
Jagr is also BY FAR a much greater plahmaker, skill guy. He'd easily be at around 2200 points in the NHL. Only Mario was better post 90.
As for trophies....I dunno man, try winning that many in an era with Mario and Wayne and dominant goalies. Trophies dont mean all that much....they are voted on and Jagr wasn't winning certain trophies that he should have won.
Hawerchuk doesnt have that many trophies...he had no help for most of his career and he's an all timer who is MUCH better than guys with way more trophies.

Again, the eye test tells me Jagr was the GOAT euro

 

[authentic]

Interesting.... Jagr missed 4 season from the NHL yet still managed to be 2nd all time in points.. 4 years straigh Art Ross ... for Lidstrom to be above Jagr he would have to rate near or same level as Bobby Orr

Theres no way Lidstrom should rate better than Jagr. Jagr was simply a better player who clearly doesn’t lack in longevity.

 

[wetcoast]

Not for long. Draisaitl is going to fill that void.

I guess at some point as long as this insane prime of regular season and playoffs keeps going....maybe.

I posted upthread about his best consecutive 7 year prime and if he makes it an 8,9 or 10 year prime on a similar level then the chatter might happen but for some reason Draisatl just doesn't get the respect he deserves.

 

[wetcoast]

Theres no way Lidstrom should rate better than Jagr. Jagr was simply a better player who clearly doesn’t lack in longevity.

I think that it's reasonable to make an argument for Jagr, Lindstrom,Ovie among position players as to who was the best overall. If one can't make a decent argument for all 3 then maybe they should check their bias at the door?

Hasek probably gets rated higher than all 3 by some but I have a hard time rating goalies with position players but Hasek might be the esbt goalie of all time.

 

[psycat]

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