Is it time for a rebuild ?

[TruBlu]

Sure, but I imagine Army is going to try hard to retain at least one of them, that's my point.

I don't think he will.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

I’d they let ROR, Tarasenko and Barbs walk and get nothing, we are going to suck for a long time.

If DA lets all three walk for nothing, then that will be the beginning of the end for DA.

 

[Allens Five Hole]

I don't think it's possible to rebuild in this city and still be able to keep ownership the same. If I remember correctly, Stillman and Co. mentioned previously that they don't hit the black until we get into the 2nd round of the playoffs during a typical year. A lot of Cardinal fans accuse their ownership of what the Blues ownership truly is, which is happy to make the playoffs.

I don't mean that as an insult to Stillman as he has been a fantastic owner willing to spend to the cap to put out an (at times) excellent product. But, at the end of the day, he cannot overcome 5, 6, or more years of missing out of the playoff revenue even if it is best for the long-term on-ice success of the franchise.

 

[BlueSeal]

I don't think it's possible to rebuild in this city and still be able to keep ownership the same. If I remember correctly, Stillman and Co. mentioned previously that they don't hit the black until we get into the 2nd round of the playoffs during a typical year. A lot of Cardinal fans accuse their ownership of what the Blues ownership truly is, which is happy to make the playoffs.

I don't mean that as an insult to Stillman as he has been a fantastic owner willing to spend to the cap to put out an (at times) excellent product. But, at the end of the day, he cannot overcome 5, 6, or more years of missing out of the playoff revenue even if it is best for the long-term on-ice success of the franchise.

So long and short is, if the team starts failing earlier or missing the playoffs, DA's job immediately goes into jeopardy mode? I like that.

Frankly he should be fired for the contracts he's giving out to players that are kind of questionable. For instance, no way in hell Krug deserves the contract he has or signing Kyrou to the contract he just got. I know, I know, Kyrou looks legit, but time will show how legit. Should have bridged him.

Time will tell but I'd like to hope that ownership is taking immediate focus on the construction of the team and its situation. As much as it's Army's job to run it, it's Stillman's job to oversee it. Hell, it's his team and he's supposed to be a die hard fan... right?

 

[ChicagoBlues]

I don't think it's possible to rebuild in this city and still be able to keep ownership the same. If I remember correctly, Stillman and Co. mentioned previously that they don't hit the black until we get into the 2nd round of the playoffs during a typical year. A lot of Cardinal fans accuse their ownership of what the Blues ownership truly is, which is happy to make the playoffs.

I don't mean that as an insult to Stillman as he has been a fantastic owner willing to spend to the cap to put out an (at times) excellent product. But, at the end of the day, he cannot overcome 5, 6, or more years of missing out of the playoff revenue even if it is best for the long-term on-ice success of the franchise.

I disagree with this in a major way. Stillman has demonstrated that he wants to win Cups.

The cold, hard, mathematical reality is that the St. Louis market is not strong enough to easily make enough money for the ownership group, unlike Toronto.

Also, unless something has changed, I'm pretty sure Checketts' business deals are still impacting the current ownership group's bottom line.

This is a business and if they are not making enough money until the 2nd round of the playoffs, then we need to be competitive enough to make it to the 2nd round.

 

[Allens Five Hole]

I disagree with this in a major way. Stillman has demonstrated that he wants to win Cups.

The cold, hard, mathematical reality is that the St. Louis market is not strong enough to easily make enough money for the ownership group, unlike Toronto.

Also, unless something has changed, I'm pretty sure Checketts' business deals are still impacting the current ownership group's bottom line.

This is a business and if they are not making enough money until the 2nd round of the playoffs, then we need to be competitive enough to make it to the 2nd round.

I think that you're misunderstanding what I was saying there. Admittedly, I may not have phrased it the best.

Of course, Stillman wants to win Cups here. He has shown that by being willing to spend to the cap (as I mentioned in the next paragraph). But, I think Stillman also realizes that making the playoffs is how he can continue to ice teams with spending power that are capable of winning a Cup. If those playoff revenues begin to disappear while DA has already dished out contracts to our high end players, he's going to run into a major problem that could force a sale. With a sale of a franchise, especially in a small market, comes the possibility of a relocation.

I do think that the Checketts disaster with the concessions is coming to an end soon or may have already. Someone can probably fact check that better that I.

 

[stl76]

So long and short is, if the team starts failing earlier or missing the playoffs, DA's job immediately goes into jeopardy mode? I like that.

Frankly he should be fired for the contracts he's giving out to players that are kind of questionable. For instance, no way in hell Krug deserves the contract he has or signing Kyrou to the contract he just got. I know, I know, Kyrou looks legit, but time will show how legit. Should have bridged him.

Time will tell but I'd like to hope that ownership is taking immediate focus on the construction of the team and its situation. As much as it's Army's job to run it, it's Stillman's job to oversee it. Hell, it's his team and he's supposed to be a die hard fan... right?

Armstrong DID bridge Kyrou. Kyrou is on his $2.8 mill bridge deal right now.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

While Kyrou at 8mil was quick. I'd rather pay him 8 mil than have him go off again and see him show 90-100 points and us end up having to pay him 9-11 mil.

Especially if we did give him another bridge deal and cap shoots up in two years like they are projecting. We could have ended up paying Thomas and Kyrou 2mil more each or even more than that.

 

[Allens Five Hole]

So long and short is, if the team starts failing earlier or missing the playoffs, DA's job immediately goes into jeopardy mode? I like that.

Frankly he should be fired for the contracts he's giving out to players that are kind of questionable. For instance, no way in hell Krug deserves the contract he has or signing Kyrou to the contract he just got. I know, I know, Kyrou looks legit, but time will show how legit. Should have bridged him.

Time will tell but I'd like to hope that ownership is taking immediate focus on the construction of the team and its situation. As much as it's Army's job to run it, it's Stillman's job to oversee it. Hell, it's his team and he's supposed to be a die hard fan... right?

I am with you on the Kyrou deal. From the moment that contract was announced I cringed. He has played much better lately but he needs to continue that play for at least 5 more years.

Krug is a totally different animal to me. We were in a really tough spot with our defense that offseason and had we waited to see Pietrangelo walk and Krug had already signed somewhere else, I'm sure we would have had a lot of complaints on here about DA doing nothing. It hasn't quite worked out but when has anyone ever had a 100% record on these things?

 

[Mike Liut]

I have no problem with the Thomas, Kyrou, Parayko or Krug deals. They were the market price and were a need. Same with Schenn and Leddy.

 

[TheOrganist]

I think most people miscalculate how owners think about sports franchises. It’s not a typical P&L business. It’s a civic asset and one that, in the last 20 years, significantly appreciates over time. It’s more like Real Estate. All of these owners would make a lot of money if they sold their equity stake relative to the purchase price. And that likely won’t change. Checketts had no control, was ridiculously leveraged, beholden to private equity while the NHL as a whole was in the darkest place in its history post-lockout. Additionally, the Rams leaving gives one less competitor for entertainment dollars in STL. I’m fairly certain Stillman could stomach a few lean years if it meant rebuilding a Cup contending team.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

I think most people miscalculate how owners think about sports franchises. It’s not a typical P&L business. It’s a civic asset and one that, in the last 20 years, significantly appreciates over time. It’s more like Real Estate. All of these owners would make a lot of money if they sold their equity stake relative to the purchase price. And that likely won’t change. Checketts had no control, was ridiculously leveraged, beholden to private equity while the NHL as a whole was in the darkest place in its history post-lockout. Additionally, the Rams leaving gives one less competitor for entertainment dollars in STL. I’m fairly certain Stillman could stomach a few lean years if it meant rebuilding a Cup contending team.

Stomach it? Absolutely. Afford it tho? Maybe not. We have to remember as well. Stillman is the majority owner. But, it's still an ownership group. There are 10+ other people that are throwing their money into it as well.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

I think that you're misunderstanding what I was saying there. Admittedly, I may not have phrased it the best.

Of course, Stillman wants to win Cups here. He has shown that by being willing to spend to the cap (as I mentioned in the next paragraph). But, I think Stillman also realizes that making the playoffs is how he can continue to ice teams with spending power that are capable of winning a Cup. If those playoff revenues begin to disappear while DA has already dished out contracts to our high end players, he's going to run into a major problem that could force a sale. With a sale of a franchise, especially in a small market, comes the possibility of a relocation.

I do think that the Checketts disaster with the concessions is coming to an end soon or may have already. Someone can probably fact check that better that I.

A much better articulation. Thank you.

 

[TheOrganist]

@Linkens Mastery The shitty part of being a minority shareholder in any business is it’s just that: minority. You have no say. Stillman has majority control and from what I hear acts as such. He rarely even provides financial statements to other investors. It’s his baby.

 

[Mike Liut]

My prediction of being 10 games under .500 by the end of December is looking good.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

My prediction of being 10 games under .500 by the end of December is looking good.

I thought you corrected yourself to mean by end of season. Kinda nitpicking.

Either way, we suck dirty homeless ass.

 

[Mike Liut]

I thought you corrected yourself to mean by end of season. Kinda nitpicking.

Either way, we suck dirty homeless ass.

No, I clarified in that post that I meant by the end of this calendar year of 2023

 

[Linkens Mastery]

I don't think we rebuild. Armstrong will say this is some transition year, trade RoR and Tarasenko, retool in the offseason. Then be back as a playoff bubble team the next year like in 2018.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

No, I clarified in that post that I meant by the end of this calendar year of 2023

Oh, I see.

 

[Mike Liut]

I don't think we rebuild. Armstrong will say this is some transition year, trade RoR and Tarasenko, retool in the offseason. Then be back as a playoff bubble team the next year like in 2018.

I’d trade the other UFA’s too. Get as many assets as you can right now.

With our remaining 12 games of 2023, I see only the Hawks as a winnable game. I don’t think we can beat teams like the Preds, Wild, Flames and EDM right now.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

I’d trade the other UFA’s too. Get as many assets as you can right now.

I think he should look for someone to take on Saad or Schenn.

I know, I know.......prolly not happening (NTCs), but would be nice.

 

[Mike Liut]

I think he should look for someone to take on Saad or Schenn.

I know, I know.......prolly not happening (NTCs), but would be nice.

I’d do it

 

[ChicagoBlues]

I’d do it

Hell f*** yeah!

 

[Linkens Mastery]

I’d trade the other UFA’s too. Get as many assets as you can right now.

With our remaining 12 games of 2023, I see only the Hawks as a winnable game. I don’t think we can beat teams like the Preds, Wild, Flames and EDM right now.

Oh definitely. I just overly said those two because they are the biggest returns. Tho, I could totally see someone stupidly past a 1st for Barbashev too.

 

[Mike Liut]

Oh definitely. I just overly said those two because they are the biggest returns. Tho, I could totally see someone stupidly past a 1st for Barbashev too.

That would be huge.