Even if the Czech are trending downwards, their results of the past, surely earns them a spot at the top4.
1. Canada
2. Sweden
3. Finland
4. Czech
5. Russia
6. USA
1. Canada
2. Sweden
3. Finland
4. Czech
5. Russia
6. USA
Is Finland a Top 3 Hockey Nation
- Thread starter Cawz
- Start date
RED ARMY EAST
Registered User
Cawz
Registered User
So earlier in the thread you state the last 20 years, and now disregard something 18 years ago? Its very difficult to keep your argument straight when you keep moving the goalposts to suit your agenda. You said it was clear for the last 20 years and less clear for the last 18 years. Clearly your definition of clear is muddied.
I dunno, whats your arbitrary cut-off? If you are looking at hockey teams that countries produce, why wouldnt you look at all the years thats its been best on best? Its kind of pointless to look at a tournament 8 years ago when the teams are all significantly different, just like its pointless to base rankings on a quick handful of games in a tournament. Hence the debate. You are either using out-dated data or a small sample size. Pick your poison.
Aceboogie
Registered User
- Aug 25, 2012
- 32,649
- 3,896
On paper id rather have Sweden, USA, Russia.
But Finland performs, simple as that. Their track record is outstanding in terms of consistency.
I have them at 4 tho
1.Canada
2. Best of Sweden,Usa,Russia
3.Remaining best of Sweden, USA, Russia
4.Finland
5. Worst of Sweden, USA, Russia
But Finland performs, simple as that. Their track record is outstanding in terms of consistency.
I have them at 4 tho
1.Canada
2. Best of Sweden,Usa,Russia
3.Remaining best of Sweden, USA, Russia
4.Finland
5. Worst of Sweden, USA, Russia
You mean like in World Cup 2004 when they went to the final and actually gave Canada a hard time in their house?
It's great to have all these experts here at the HFboards, they really know their hockey...
WarriorofTime
Registered User
- Jul 3, 2010
- 33,483
- 23,917
Sun God Nika
Palestine 🇵🇸
Canada, Sweden, Usa, And Russia are all ahead of finland and i might say its coin flip with them and Czech for 5th
Of course not. One bronze medal would not get them anywhere, maybe you could argue that they are currently above Slovakia (since they don't have any olympic medals) but that would be a major stretch.
I'm fine with including 1996, not that any players from that team are active anymore but if you think that fairs in any way to current rankings, I'm fine with that.
It still doesn't put USA ahead of Finland, but if you wish to use that win, at least they are solidly ahead of Russia.
In all fairness, I'd take a 10 year span when talking about current rankings. That still leaves 4 best on best tournaments for sample size.
Coach Travis
Back2Back!!!
Fins are amazingly consistent but just the fact that everyone is happy for them whenever they win anything (usually bronze) tells you what their standing is among the top hockey countries.
toewsintangibles
Leadership analyst
- Dec 23, 2012
- 1,541
- 123
I think it just means Finland doesn't beat Canada that often..
Was funny to read this board when Finland thumped Canada in the WJCs
- Feb 23, 2014
- 27,941
- 87,612
Some would say that describing one as "usually bronze" tells everything needed about one's standing regarding the Top 3.
It's a game, like, which means there usually is some actual playing involved somewhere when people are put in rankings. The Top 3 position can very well be contested on very good foundations that have been brought up in the thread but I'd like to see it contested on ice, too, if contesting it is what one wants to do.
I'm not really claiming that Finland is the third of the Top 3, but the thing is if I were I could back my claim with some serious metal.
Finland is not top 3 talentwise. There is a reason why players in team CAN, USA, SWE, and RUS play in better club teams and get moreice time and points in them...
Finland is a great tournament team. They play great as a team etc. Bronze is always a good achievement in the NHL Olympics, but result in a 10 day tournament doesnt tell you everything. In some ways, these bronze medals may be bad for Finnish hockey overall, because now we get too happy to be where we are. Producing average players, who play as a team. No reason to get out of a comfort zone, because we are getting medals anyway...And there will be no future Selänne or Finnish version of Erik Karlsson, because we only like those average team players. And there will be no Olympic gold for sure.
Still, bronze is good. But it's still only a third place in a six team tournament. After you get several bronzes, maybe you shouldn't be so happy about them and you should aim higher.
Finland is a great tournament team. They play great as a team etc. Bronze is always a good achievement in the NHL Olympics, but result in a 10 day tournament doesnt tell you everything. In some ways, these bronze medals may be bad for Finnish hockey overall, because now we get too happy to be where we are. Producing average players, who play as a team. No reason to get out of a comfort zone, because we are getting medals anyway...And there will be no future Selänne or Finnish version of Erik Karlsson, because we only like those average team players. And there will be no Olympic gold for sure.
Still, bronze is good. But it's still only a third place in a six team tournament. After you get several bronzes, maybe you shouldn't be so happy about them and you should aim higher.
You mean like the World Cup (2nd, final could've gone either way too)? Or Vancouver Olympics (bronze). Finland probably benefits from small ice unlike Russia and Czechs...Sweden is kinda iffy.
Buuut, if you start to think of the game really as a game, and not just a breeding program to see who can produce enough good players, Finland is clear cut #1 Hockey nation. Coaching and gametheory of Hockey in Finland is on a whole another level. Only Sweden comes close. Canada and indeed NHL is decades behind. So much so, that it's hard for me to think of NHL coaches as anything more than older hockey celebrities.
It's rather pathetic, that failed coaches so often land a new job less than a season from being fired. Take team Canada. it's been almost a decade since they had ANY coaching, any tactics. The massively overwhelming amount of talent just blinds the nation to the fact that Canada has no gameplan or strategy. Seems the defining things for Canada success is whether it can keep its players away from the nightlife of the host city. (Ryan Getzlaf for example in Helsinki 2012)While this is controversial, I did my best to keep facts straight and be respectful. Something is always lost or added in translation. Godspeed
hitmen19
Registered User
- Jan 21, 2013
- 823
- 1
You mean like the World Cup (2nd, final could've gone either way too)? Or Vancouver Olympics (bronze). Finland probably benefits from small ice unlike Russia and Czechs...Sweden is kinda iffy.
Buuut, if you start to think of the game really as a game, and not just a breeding program to see who can produce enough good players, Finland is clear cut #1 Hockey nation. Coaching and gametheory of Hockey in Finland is on a whole another level. Only Sweden comes close. Canada and indeed NHL is decades behind. So much so, that it's hard for me to think of NHL coaches as anything more than older hockey celebrities.
While this is controversial, I did my best to keep facts straight and be respectful. Something is always lost or added in translation. Godspeed
seems like you wrote this also after hitting the night life.
is that why Latvia got a Canadian coach, and he led them to the an incredible tournament and every player on the team said he was the reason they achieved so much
oh yeah, great coaching by the Swedish coach to bench oel for oduya, that was a smart move.
who can forget coach bill? has he been eaten yet?
its kind of sad, that finland has the best coaching ever, with the newest methods, and yet has stil never won anything of significance on a best on best level. so does that mean the players even have less skill? I mean they have the best coaching, and the best goaltending, and yet they don't ever win tournaments
I agree finland has mastered the game theory. Coast in prelims, then make the quarterfinal game the gold medal game. Then get smoked in the semi final when other teams skill comes out, and take advantage in the bronze medal game, when the other team isn't is still devastated from losing. your right, they have mastered the game theory to win the bronze game
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It all makes sense now that Finland has won the last two best-on-best tournaments. O wait... that was Canada and Finland finished 3rd both times. Their coaching is CLEARLY on another level than Canada's.You mean like the World Cup (2nd, final could've gone either way too)? Or Vancouver Olympics (bronze). Finland probably benefits from small ice unlike Russia and Czechs...Sweden is kinda iffy.
Buuut, if you start to think of the game really as a game, and not just a breeding program to see who can produce enough good players, Finland is clear cut #1 Hockey nation. Coaching and gametheory of Hockey in Finland is on a whole another level. Only Sweden comes close. Canada and indeed NHL is decades behind. So much so, that it's hard for me to think of NHL coaches as anything more than older hockey celebrities.
While this is controversial, I did my best to keep facts straight and be respectful. Something is always lost or added in translation. Godspeed
This is my ranking right now (if including the best players in all countries) and considering both NHL and International sized rinks.
1. Canada
2. USA
3. Sweden
4. Russia
5. Finland
6. Czech
It's not only based on results in Sochi, it's my personal opinion.
Normally I would put Russia higher but they have lost something, they fail in the teamplay category, too many selfish individuals. I prefer watching videos from the Soviet era.
The ranking between USA and Sweden being very close, also the ranking between Russia and Finland.
The only question mark being the USA but with all the best players included they are a very good team. I don't put any value in loosing the bronze medal to Finland in Sochi.
1. Canada
2. USA
3. Sweden
4. Russia
5. Finland
6. Czech
It's not only based on results in Sochi, it's my personal opinion.
Normally I would put Russia higher but they have lost something, they fail in the teamplay category, too many selfish individuals. I prefer watching videos from the Soviet era.
The ranking between USA and Sweden being very close, also the ranking between Russia and Finland.
The only question mark being the USA but with all the best players included they are a very good team. I don't put any value in loosing the bronze medal to Finland in Sochi.
johnny_rudeboy
Registered User
Is this the 100th thread questioning Finland as a top 3 nation? And few if any of these threads have been started by Swedes btw.
Yes, Finland is a top 3 nation. But it is not set in stone who is 2nd -4th or perhaps even 5th. A case can be made for any of the top nations to be ahead of another top nation, and of course vice versa.
Yes, Finland is a top 3 nation. But it is not set in stone who is 2nd -4th or perhaps even 5th. A case can be made for any of the top nations to be ahead of another top nation, and of course vice versa.
