Is Finland a Top 3 Hockey Nation

[Lataba]

Skills

Some "experts" say the finnish team hasn`t so much skills.
Hmmm?In the last 4 tounaments i noticed that die finns create much beautiful goals.For example Granlund WC 11,Kontiola vs Germany WC 12 or Ristolainen vs Sweden WJC 14.
Or Aaltonens "best of"!Etc.....
How can you create so fantastic goals with few talent?
This is impossible.
This is a misjugdement! The most experts prejudice against Finland. Despite Finland prove contrary everytime.

In the last big 6 tournaments team suomi gain 5 medals (4x olympic 1x world cup of hockey) after 36 games. This could t be a coincidence.
I think the main reason is that the noth americans unterestimate the hockey players in european leagues. Finland has proven that players like Aaltonen,Kontiola,Letherä etc. can to match up on this high level.
But most "experts" don`t want see it. They don`t want to learn something new. There are beeing consetvative. They don t accept the new constellation.
Finland is every time a spoil sport for "dream storys"

 

[psycho_dad*]

Yes and no. Right now the finns are 3rd best in the world. But im not sure after Salo and Timonen retires. Also Pitkanen is gettin old. What will happen to the finnish defense when most of their elite Ds retires. Maatta will turn into one of the best Ds in the world, but he is just one player. The Finns need to develop more good Ds.

But again. Right now the finns are 3rd best after Canada and Sweden.

Vatanen played great, he will develop into a leading offensive D for an NHL team very quickly. Ristolainen was dominant in WJC and he should become a good defenseman for NHL level.

Timonen and Salo will be replaced by better players than they were at this age by the next best on best games. Salo actually did not have that great of a tournament either, he was almost the weakest link in defense and had about 5 scoring chances in the semis and couldn't even put it in the empty net.

I'm more worried about wingers than D, our team D and goaltending will continue to be the best. We need goal scorers though. Teemu Pulkkinen looked like he was going to become one, but seems to take a little while longer to develop. Same can be said about Joel Armia. Aleksi Saarela seems to have everything that's required of a future goal scorer but the kid has been very unlucky with injuries this season and it's holding his progress back.

 

[teris]

Maybe if they played to win against the stronger teams, instead of hanging on to dear life with their trap. Then we'd have a better judge of the Finnish team.

I still have them 3rd in this tournament (obviously), but 4-5 in the world.

They most certainly played every game to win within their strenghts. I don't want to speculate if the results would have been different without injuries as we just don't know and I realize every team was missing someone. But missing so many centers certainly showed on the ice. We lost a lot of faceoffs and had fewer players who could keep the puck under pressure. We played defensively but the neutral zone trap wasn't that suffocating. We spent a lot of time in our defensive zone but not because we were dominated. When it came to defense we were contempt with keeping the opposition to the outside and relied in our strength in goal to minimize rebounds from long range shots that couldn't be blocked by skaters. This lead to long shifts especially in the second period with the bench further away from the d-zone. Yet Finland scored more goals than anyone else in the tournament and had the second most shots on goal. It was not all about defense. Nor did we rely on special teams, in fact they were terrible.

I think the results speak for themselves. The Finnish national team is the third best national team in the world. What is shown on ice is the only measurement of how good a team is. The whole is greater than the sum of its parts which is especially true when it comes to Team Finland. Counting the number of NHL players etc is just adding up the parts. It only works that way in fantasy hockey.

 

[Tukka Rask]

In my opinion Finland is 4/5.

Have a great afternoon.

The facts have spoken, you can keep on fighting all you want, it won't change a thing. Finland is the 3rd best country. Opinions don't matter, only results.

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

Didn't know we had so many Finnish posters on this site until I started clicking on all the usernames that voted "yes", lol.

 

[psycho_dad*]

Didn't know we had so many Finnish posters on this site until I started clicking on all the usernames that voted "yes", lol.

Yes, the Finnish education system is the best in the world so we are prone to use proper metrics when evaluating things.

Like measuring distance by meters, not by "how far I feel it is or want it to be"

Or weighing things by kilograms and not thinking "well in my opinion it is this and this much"

Yeah, education does that to people, they understand that sports is about results in said sport etc etc.

But hey keep fighting the good fight for "opinion matters most"!

 

[Lataba]

Eternal Ranking!

Finland is in the eternal Ranking since Nagano 98 - Sotchi 14 after 30 games on 2. place!
Any more questions?

 

[Opado]

This is pretty much like debating with a creationists. Fins "Here`s the proof and stat`s", Others "Yes but we don`t take count on those stats, we take note on stats we like".

 

[FinRuutu]

Didn't know we had so many Finnish posters on this site until I started clicking on all the usernames that voted "yes", lol.

You're implying that Finn can't be right and you are because you're not a Finn? False logic.

Also you clearly have an agenda.

 

[psycho_dad*]

This is pretty much like debating with a creationists.

Yes, it's exactly like that.

"Hey, facts are crystal clear about this..."

"But I don't LIKE facts, so it is the way I imagine it to be!"

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

You're implying that Finn can't be right and you are because you're not a Finn? False logic.

No, I'm implying that the vast majority of the "yes" votes come from people voting for their "home" country, which is called bias. It's a pretty much even vote still, so this poll obviously has to be redone with Finnish votes separated from everyone else.

 

[Opado]

No, I'm implying that the vast majority of the "yes" votes come from people voting for their "home" country, which is called bias.

So Fins only can vote "no" or dont vote at all?

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

So Fins only can vote "no" or dont vote at all?

No, it means the result of the poll is going to be pretty much useless unless all of the "homer" votes are clearly separated and identified (and I say that as someone who has actually taken a couple of minutes to click through the majority of voters' profiles at this point, so I've checked). It's the same case for polls you see all over the polls board (particularly ones involving Habs or Leafs teams/players), but congrats on predictably taking 2 seconds to play the "victim card".

The poll results right now are essentially the result of 95% of all Finn voters believing they are a top 3 country, and 85% of everyone else believing they're not.

 

[ChickenBurrito]

No, I'm implying that the vast majority of the "yes" votes come from people voting for their "home" country, which is called bias. It's a pretty much even vote still, so this poll obviously has to be redone with Finnish votes separated from everyone else.

In that case you would have to separate USA votes too since the majority of NO are Americans who believe they are the 3rd best team.

 

[psycho_dad*]

In that case you would have to separate USA votes too since the majority of NO are Americans who believe they are the 3rd best team.

Maybe we should not count the U.S votes at all...I mean, about 48% of them believe that earth was created in six 24 hour days by god just like it's written in Genesis. A further 36% or so believe evolution has been supervised by god. Leaving a very small percentage of Americans who are right.

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

In that case you would have to separate USA votes too since the majority of NO are Americans who believe they are the 3rd best team.

If this was a poll about whether or not the USA is a "top 3 team", you'd have a point. We don't need a poll to tell us that the majority of Finnish voters think Finland is a top 3 team, though. At least 5 threads going last night were flooded with by the Finland Solidarity Front, lol. But as a Canadian, I don't value American votes any more/less than Finnish votes, so whatever would float your boat, I guess.

 

[NYR89]

I would say based on results at tournaments it would be something like:

Canada

Sweden/USA/Finland

Russia

The three in the middle are interchangeable.

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

I would say based on results at tournaments it would be something like:

Canada

Sweden/USA/Finland

Russia

The three in the middle are interchangeable.

Nope, Finland is clearly 3rd or you're an ignoramus who completely ignores facts and believes in the boogeyman.

 

[psycho_dad*]

I would say based on results at tournaments it would be something like:

Canada

Sweden/USA/Finland

Russia

The three in the middle are interchangeable.

Based on results, there's not much arguing the top 3. Some could maybe argue Finland's consistency over Sweden but they do have a recent gold medal to show for and probably an edge in head to head games. The way I see it, Sweden is pretty clear cut #2.

USA and Russia are not that close to the two mentioned before, based on results. But you can make a case for both of them for the 4th place. I have not done a head to head comparison but I believe their medal counts are close, and head to head are close. But USA has better recent success and just won a head to head game as well and placed better than Russia.

 

[Tukka Rask]

If this was a poll about whether or not the USA is a "top 3 team", you'd have a point. We don't need a poll to tell us that the majority of Finnish voters think Finland is a top 3 team, though. At least 5 threads going last night were flooded with by the Finland Solidarity Front, lol. But as a Canadian, I don't value American votes any more/less than Finnish votes, so whatever would float your boat, I guess.

Who cares about the poll, you keep attacking the voters but you don't even try to argue against the facts presented here that
prove Finland is number 3. Forget about the poll, no Finnish poster is saying that the poll has any meaning to this conversation.

You just don't have any counter arguments, plain and simple.

 

[Borlag]

Put up or shut up. I don't give a damn about whether you care about a match or not, whether your "best player in the world" is injured or not, whether your coach can't coach his way out of a paper bag or not... if you can't deliver better hockey than 4th place finish, and the recent records show the same year after year, you have no business being called a top 3 nation. Finland does, Sweden does, Canada does... USA, Russia, Czech, Slovakia, Switzerland etc etc do not.

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

Who cares about the poll, you keep attacking the voters but you don't even try to argue against the facts presented here that
prove Finland is number 3. Forget about the poll, no Finnish poster is saying that the poll has any meaning to this conversation.

There's no "attacking" voters (unless you count the Finnish attacks on the "uneducated morons devoid of logic and reasoning", of course); simply counting of Finnish voters voting "yes" for Finland. I'm not responsible for coining the term "homer".

You just don't have any counter arguments, plain and simple.

You just don't read the threads, plain and simple.

 

[Rocko604]

Based on international competition, absolutely.

Based on NHL player production, probably not.

 

[ericWONT]

I think the argument that "Finland won bronze, so they're the third best country" is totally invalid.

I don't know how anyone could expect USA to actually try in the bronze medal game after losing a heartbreaker to Canada. The USA lost by a damn goal to Canada. They got crushed by Finland.

However, Canada is, without any argument, better than Finland. So how does that happen?

USA obviously didn't play their hearts out. There's no way you can say, for sure, which of two are better unless it wasn't for a runner-up trophy.

My opinion, USA is 3rd. But for all intensive purposes, they're basically tied.

 

[Smif]

If Finland is #3, why did everyone freak out on Canada when they took us to OT? 1 vs 3 should be a HUGE match up, yet, it seemed as though other countries thought it should've been a cakewalk for us.