Is Connor Mcdavid a "tier above" Sidney Crosby as a player?

[Gurglesons]

It’s not an argumentative point, it’s a correction. Kunitz does in fact have 4 cups. That’s not taking him over Crosby, just like I wouldn’t take Point, who has 3 cups, over Ovechkin.

You are getting awfully sensitive about something that isn’t that big of a deal, do you realize that? You are accusing me of being “bias” by correcting a statement that was untrue…

I'm not sensitive. Just calling you out on your stupid bullshit that pollutes literally every thread about Crosby along with fellow "unbiased" posts like MJ, daver, and norrisnick.

Every thread about Crosby is just you being a tattle like you are here "acccchtually KUNITZ has 4 CUPS to Sid's 3".

No shit brother. My point was Sid amongst his generational comparatives (Malkin, Ovi, Kane, etc) is tied or above all of them.

Can't wait to hear about how "you're right" "unbiased" etc tho.

 

[GreatGonzo]

Oh and @bambamcam4ever


The last 5 years: Top ES scorers
1-McDavid: 362
…..
…
..
9-Crosby: 260

The last 3 years:
1- McDavid: 240
….
…
..
8-Crosby: 191


Numbers of times lead the league in ES points
McDavid: 4
Crosby: 1

ES points first 9 years
Crosby
467: 2nd
McDavid
632: 1st

I'm not sensitive. Just calling you out on your stupid bullshit that pollutes literally every thread about Crosby along with fellow "unbiased" posts like MJ, daver, and norrisnick.

Every thread about Crosby is just you being a tattle like you are here "acccchtually KUNITZ has 4 CUPS to Sid's 3".

No shit brother. My point was Sid amongst his generational comparatives (Malkin, Ovi, Kane, etc) is tied or above all of them.

Can't wait to hear about how "you're right" "unbiased" etc tho.

You clearly are getting worked up about a simple correction, I’m sorry YOU don’t consider them in the same generation….but you are wrong. And now you are borderline throwing a tantrum about it….

Saying Kunitz has more cups than Crosby isn’t being “bias” it’s a fact. Maybe learn the difference before calling it “stupid bullshit” because you can’t handle being wrong.

 

[pi314]

You also aren't looking very hard, because you don't care about McDavid as much as you care about Crosby.

That is giving credit to individuals for the achievements of teams. Which seems silly when comparing individuals on different teams.

It's been referenced countless times now, but [insert Oiler 4th liner scoring two goals in game 7] doesn't magically make McDavid a better player. But some would have you believe it would. What's the value of that credit?

Excuses.

2 years ago the Penguins controlled their fate for making the playoffs with 2 games to go and their opponents were Chicago & Columbus (who were both tanking for Bedard)...

Crosby was -2 with zero points as the Penguins lost to Chicago—season over. No "willing" his teammates to victory that time I guess.

Cherry-picking "clutch" moments over a 19-year career is not evidence of anything, the same way my cherry-picked example is not proof that he is "not clutch". The truth is somewhere in the middle.

Are you really insinuating that a late regular season game at 36 years old and an Olympic gold/Stanley Cup moment are the same thing?

Even by HF standards, you are a special kind.

I refuse to believe anyone is legitimately this…

…I can’t even finish that sentence because mods.

You are beyond delusional and hopeless.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

It was a simple question, if you can’t answer it simply than it sounds like there really isn’t a great answer, is there?

Niedermayer Was the captain though in 2010 for team canada….wasnt he? So he technically “lead” them to glory.

Because there is nothing to grasp….”leadership” is completely intangible. And using it is just plain Lazy because all it is, is YOUR word versus someone else’s. It’s


Just say you can’t answer the question I don’t believe I was out of line seeking clarity.

So, by “a thing”…..you mean team achievements? Or overall….might want to correct that at risk of looking really silly…

well when u really break it down all sports are basically offense/defense. but there are 3 zones in hockey. not sure if you know this and the style of play changes in each zone. McDavid is better in the offensive zone, but Crosby imo atleast is better in the neutral zone and the defensive zone

Niedermayer might have been the captain but Crosby is the one who scored the game winning goal. its not hard to figure out bud. but your acting dumb just for the hell of it

Agree with most of this but I'm not a SC or even a trophy counter, people put way too much stock into those over the overall (considering everything about each player highs and lows) performance of a player.

I agree with you but when you wanna enter the top 3,4 or 5. I think to a certain extent winning matters. how the hell is anyone going to rightfully enter the top5 without getting the job done atleast once in their career.

I remember the way people talked about Ovechkin till he finally won. I dont see why McDavid should be treated any differently

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Yes that's what he does even when you point it it man that was clear as day yet he is still arguing against something you specifically didn't say and said explicitly that MCdavid was better at.

like 10 days till I can like again lol got warnings when caps bought capfriendly lol. wasnt happy.
but if I could Id like this comment lol

 

[archangel2]

Something? Like anything?

I love reading “he hasn’t won anything.” You can really tell he simply wants to be deliberately obtuse.


It’s more hilarious that YOU can’t say how I’m bias

He won a cup? Olympics? DId I miss it. Individual awards mean little --it is all about the cup and an olympics where the best of the best play.

Compared to Crosby? McDavid has WON NOTHING

 

[Midnight Judges]

Who has more cups than Crosby in his generation?

Kunitz has 4.

 

[Golden_Jet]

My player evaluation and analysis all time doesn't change for different players.

Ya showing your bias

 

[Midnight Judges]

Chris Kunitz is 8 years older than Crosby. Not sure I'd include him in "Crosby's generation".

Is Joe Thornton part of Crosby's generation?

Kunitz has nearly 100% of his lengthy NHL career overlap with Crosby (Kunitz played 21 games in 03-04, and a thousand games while Crosby was in the NHL).

Can we please have a little common sense here?

 

[Voight]

This is insanity man I can't. He got completely clamped and you'll twist it as a positive

HFB really has its own Baghdad Bob

 

[norrisnick]

well when u really break it down all sports are basically offense/defense. but there are 3 zones in hockey. not sure if you know this and the style of play changes in each zone. McDavid is better in the offensive zone, but Crosby imo atleast is better in the neutral zone and the defensive zone

Niedermayer might have been the captain but Crosby is the one who scored the game winning goal. its not hard to figure out bud. but your acting dumb just for the hell of it


I agree with you but when you wanna enter the top 3,4 or 5. I think to a certain extent winning matters. how the hell is anyone going to rightfully enter the top5 without getting the job done atleast once in their career.

I remember the way people talked about Ovechkin till he finally won. I dont see why McDavid should be treated any differently

Couple key points here.

So who led the '09 Cup and why was it Crosby anyway even though he didn't score the game winning goal or lead the team in scoring etc...?

Making a mistake once is no justification for making the same mistake twice.

 

[GreatGonzo]

well when u really break it down all sports are basically offense/defense. but there are 3 zones in hockey. not sure if you know this and the style of play changes in each zone. McDavid is better in the offensive zone, but Crosby imo atleast is better in the neutral zone and the defensive zone

Niedermayer might have been the captain but Crosby is the one who scored the game winning goal. its not hard to figure out bud. but your acting dumb just for the hell of it


I agree with you but when you wanna enter the top 3,4 or 5. I think to a certain extent winning matters. how the hell is anyone going to rightfully enter the top5 without getting the job done atleast once in their career.

I remember the way people talked about Ovechkin till he finally won. I dont see why McDavid should be treated any differently

I mean this year, Crosby wasn’t particularly strong in the defensive zone and his overall defensive game is greatly over exaggerated.

Im acting dumb by pointing out that Crosbys wasn’t the one “leading” the team in those Olympics? Interesting…

He won a cup? Olympics? DId I miss it. Individual awards mean little --it is all about the cup and an olympics where the best of the best play.

Compared to Crosby? McDavid has WON NOTHING

ok then say he hasnt won any TEAM awards so far while in the NHL. That’s a step compared to “nothing.”

 

[GreatGonzo]

Kunitz has nearly 100% of his lengthy NHL career overlap with Crosby (Kunitz played 21 games in 03-04, and a thousand games while Crosby was in the NHL).

Can we please have a little common sense here?

Sorry to break it to you but that’s asking for a lot with him…

 

[Frank Drebin]

scott neidermayer the best defender to ever play the game

Won everything

Impossible to have bourque or Orr over him

 

[DitchMarner]

scott neidermayer the best defender to ever play the game

Won everything

Impossible to have bourque or Orr over him

This is actually a good point.

Niedermayer won four Cups. Bourque won one. Orr won two. Does this mean Niedermayer > Orr and Bourque?

You definitely have to look at more than Cups won when assessing players and careers.

 

[crowfish]

Excuses.


Are you really insinuating that a late regular season game at 36 years old and an Olympic gold/Stanley Cup moment are the same thing?

Even by HF standards, you are a special kind.

I refuse to believe anyone is legitimately this…

…I can’t even finish that sentence because mods.

You are beyond delusional and hopeless.

What I am insinuating is that if in that late regular season game Crosby scored 2 goals and the Penguins made the playoffs, people like you would have listed it with your other cherry-picked reasons why he is some magical clutch player, but it wouldn't have been proof of anything.

If late regular season games being used as an example bother you, we could use his 3 pts in 7 games playing for the Stanley Cup as evidence of him not being very clutch, or his 20 pts in 25 career SCF games, or that he is only 6th in active players playoff pts/game.

 

[GreatGonzo]

This is actually a good point.

Niedermayer won four Cups. Bourque won one. Orr won two. Does this mean Niedermayer > Orr and Bourque?

You definitely have to look at more than Cups won when assessing players and careers.

well Toews was Definitely a better leader than Crosby from 2010-2015. And because he was the better leader, obviously that means as a player, he’s similar to Crosby…

Besides it was Toews who lead them to 3 cups during that time span while Crosby was collecting meaningless individual awards.

 

[DitchMarner]

well Toews was Definitely a better leader than Crosby from 2010-2015. And because he was the better leader, obviously that means as a player, he’s similar to Crosby…

Besides it was Toews who lead them to 3 cups during that time span while Crosby was collecting meaningless individual awards.

I remember Daver used to say that elite defensive play only makes up for 10% of a gap in scoring...

Now he acts like leadership/intangibles and "superior two-way play" make up for a lot more than that...

 

[bambamcam4ever]

This is insanity man I can't. He got completely clamped and you'll twist it as a positive

He didn't get completely clamped, he created plenty of chances for his linemates against Detroit. You can watch the games on YouTube

 

[Video Nasty]

He didn't get completely clamped, he created plenty of chances for his linemates against Detroit. You can watch the games on YouTube

Now adopt a similar mindset when you choose to critique McDavid.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Couple key points here.

So who led the '09 Cup and why was it Crosby anyway even though he didn't score the game winning goal or lead the team in scoring etc...?

Making a mistake once is no justification for making the same mistake twice.

I dont really care, difference is he was a leader for that cup. got the job done not only once but 3 times.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Now adopt a similar mindset when you choose to critique McDavid.

Yup , all we are asking is for a tiny little itty bitty pinch of objectivity here

 

[Arthur Morgan]

I mean this year, Crosby wasn’t particularly strong in the defensive zone and his overall defensive game is greatly over exaggerated.

Im acting dumb by pointing out that Crosbys wasn’t the one “leading” the team in those Olympics? Interesting…

ok then say he hasnt won any TEAM awards so far while in the NHL. That’s a step compared to “nothing.”

Crosby is 36 man, and he's pretty damn impressive for 36.

Crosby was a leader on that team and I dunno what to tell you. guy scored the game winning goal in overtime and was an assistant captain. Im not sure how ur arguing he wasn't a leader on that team.

im sorry your argument isn't really helping convince me McDavid deserves to be placed above Crosby already.

 

[tabness]

This is insanity man I can't. He got completely clamped and you'll twist it as a positive

apparently this destroyed the Red Wings franchise lol

rip in peace

 

[GreatGonzo]

Crosby is 36 man, and he's pretty damn impressive for 36.

Crosby was a leader on that team and I dunno what to tell you. guy scored the game winning goal in overtime and was an assistant captain. Im not sure how ur arguing he wasn't a leader on that team.

im sorry your argument isn't really helping convince me McDavid deserves to be placed above Crosby already.

I mean, sure. I don’t really know what his age has to do with it…

Because he didn’t wear the C, isn’t that what you value the most?

That’s fine. We can’t all think logically and objectively, sometimes “winning” and “leadership” is enough for some of us to be convinced.