Is Connor Mcdavid a "tier above" Sidney Crosby as a player?

[crowfish]

To get back on the main topic of the thread, here is a list of reasons why McDavid has already proven he is in a tier above Crosby. I don't even think it's particularly close at all. This list is just going to grow each year, and the coping and reality denial from the Crosby side is just going to get worse. I am going to enjoy watching it.


2nd unanimous MVP in NHL history

McDavid is the only player to do it besides Wayne Gretzky, who only did it twice. Note that McDavid would have done this twice as well had it not been for that pathetic Pittsburgh beat writer voting him 5th in MVP voting after one of the best seasons in history. Imagine being that butthurt and petty. Some Penguins fans need to accept that It's okay for your guy to be the 2nd best of the modern game, there is no shame in that.

5 Ross + 3 Hart

I specified these 2 trophies because I believe they are by far the most prestigious individual awards and the most relevant for measuring individual talent for forwards. The Ted Lindsey is good as well for modern players, but historically the voting was a bit weird for that one. The only players in NHL history who have at least McDavids totals for these 2 trophies are: Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux, and Gordie Howe. McDavid has only played 9 seasons so far, and yet nobody in NHL history besides the 3 greatest forwards ever to play have more of these trophies than him. Crosby has 2 Ross + 2 Hart and isn't even close to joining this list.

Led the league in goals & assists in the same season

This sounds less impressive than what it is, but let me explain why this is a big deal. Firstly, it has only been done by 3 other players: Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux and Gordie Howe. The reason this is such a rare achievement is because goals and assists negatively correlate with each other. If you get an assist, that is a goal you didn't get and if you get a goal that is an assist you did not get. To win each category you need to beat out the specialists like Ovechkin, Matthews etc, which is already unlikely, but then you have to also lead the league in assists at the same time. It is a crazy difficult thing to do. This achievement is a mark of true dominance, which is why only the 3 greatest forwards ever had done it before McDavid. Note, I am only including players who also led the league in goals/game & assists/game to get a true list of "best goal scorer + best player maker" in the same season. Crosby was never remotely close to doing this.


A few more elite lists:

40+ points in a single playoff run

Only done by 3 players: Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux, Connor McDavid

150+ points in 3 consecutive seasons (regular + playoffs)

Only done by 3 players: Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux, Connor McDavid

Players in the 60 goal club & 100 assist club

Only done by 3 players: Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux, Connor McDavid

Top 5 in Hart voting 8 consecutive seasons

Only done by 3 players: Wayne Gretzky, Gordie Howe, Connor McDavid

Pts/game rankings regular season

1) Gretzky, 2) Lemieux, 3) McDavid

Pts/game rankings playoffs

1) Gretzky, 2) Lemieux, 3) McDavid


In summary, McDavid seems to be on a lot of lists that ONLY the greatest forwards ever are on, and those lists do not include Crosby.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

I mean, sure. I don’t really know what his age has to do with it…

Because he didn’t wear the C, isn’t that what you value the most?

That’s fine. We can’t all think logically and objectively, sometimes “winning” and “leadership” is enough for some of us to be convinced.

you said Crosby wasn’t particularly strong in the defensive zone, Im assuming your talking about last season. and if your talking about his career in general. Ill just disagree.

I dont know why your so obsessed with this anyways. and yes only one of the two has actually won.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

To get back on the main topic of the thread, here is a list of reasons why McDavid has already proven he is in a tier above Crosby. I don't even think it's particularly close at all. This list is just going to grow each year, and the coping and reality denial from the Crosby side is just going to get worse. I am going to enjoy watching it.


2nd unanimous MVP in NHL history

McDavid is the only player to do it besides Wayne Gretzky, who only did it twice. Note that McDavid would have done this twice as well had it not been for that pathetic Pittsburgh beat writer voting him 5th in MVP voting after one of the best seasons in history. Imagine being that butthurt and petty. Some Penguins fans need to accept that It's okay for your guy to be the 2nd best of the modern game, there is no shame in that.

5 Ross + 3 Hart

I specified these 2 trophies because I believe they are by far the most prestigious individual awards and the most relevant for measuring individual talent for forwards. The Ted Lindsey is good as well for modern players, but historically the voting was a bit weird for that one. The only players in NHL history who have at least McDavids totals for these 2 trophies are: Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux, and Gordie Howe. McDavid has only played 9 seasons so far, and yet nobody in NHL history besides the 3 greatest forwards ever to play have more of these trophies than him. Crosby has 2 Ross + 2 Hart and isn't even close to joining this list.

Led the league in goals & assists in the same season

This sounds less impressive than what it is, but let me explain why this is a big deal. Firstly, it has only been done by 3 other players: Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux and Gordie Howe. The reason this is such a rare achievement is because goals and assists negatively correlate with each other. If you get an assist, that is a goal you didn't get and if you get a goal that is an assist you did not get. To win each category you need to beat out the specialists like Ovechkin, Matthews etc, which is already unlikely, but then you have to also lead the league in assists at the same time. It is a crazy difficult thing to do. This achievement is a mark of true dominance, which is why only the 3 greatest forwards ever had done it before McDavid. Note, I am only including players who also led the league in goals/game & assists/game to get a true list of "best goal scorer + best player maker" in the same season. Crosby was never remotely close to doing this.


A few more elite lists:

40+ points in a single playoff run

Only done by 3 players: Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux, Connor McDavid

150+ points in 3 consecutive seasons (regular + playoffs)

Only done by 3 players: Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux, Connor McDavid

Players in the 60 goal club & 100 assist club

Only done by 3 players: Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux, Connor McDavid

Top 5 in Hart voting 8 consecutive seasons

Only done by 3 players: Wayne Gretzky, Gordie Howe, Connor McDavid

Pts/game rankings regular season

1) Gretzky, 2) Lemieux, 3) McDavid

Pts/game rankings playoffs

1) Gretzky, 2) Lemieux, 3) McDavid


In summary, McDavid seems to be on a lot of lists that ONLY the greatest forwards ever are on, and those lists do not include Crosby.

for the time being Ill still take Crosby. rather the guy that gets the only one that matters done.
and 3x Cups is more than enough

but McDavid keeps this up. eventually he will for sure over step Crosby. still imo it's premature.

also Id never consider him a top 5 or top 4 bumping one out if he never wins a single cup in his career. fancy records but winning a cup is the only one that matters

 

[bambamcam4ever]

To get back on the main topic of the thread, here is a list of reasons why McDavid has already proven he is in a tier above Crosby. I don't even think it's particularly close at all. This list is just going to grow each year, and the coping and reality denial from the Crosby side is just going to get worse. I am going to enjoy watching it.


2nd unanimous MVP in NHL history

McDavid is the only player to do it besides Wayne Gretzky, who only did it twice. Note that McDavid would have done this twice as well had it not been for that pathetic Pittsburgh beat writer voting him 5th in MVP voting after one of the best seasons in history. Imagine being that butthurt and petty. Some Penguins fans need to accept that It's okay for your guy to be the 2nd best of the modern game, there is no shame in that.

5 Ross + 3 Hart

I specified these 2 trophies because I believe they are by far the most prestigious individual awards and the most relevant for measuring individual talent for forwards. The Ted Lindsey is good as well for modern players, but historically the voting was a bit weird for that one. The only players in NHL history who have at least McDavids totals for these 2 trophies are: Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux, and Gordie Howe. McDavid has only played 9 seasons so far, and yet nobody in NHL history besides the 3 greatest forwards ever to play have more of these trophies than him. Crosby has 2 Ross + 2 Hart and isn't even close to joining this list.

Led the league in goals & assists in the same season

This sounds less impressive than what it is, but let me explain why this is a big deal. Firstly, it has only been done by 3 other players: Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux and Gordie Howe. The reason this is such a rare achievement is because goals and assists negatively correlate with each other. If you get an assist, that is a goal you didn't get and if you get a goal that is an assist you did not get. To win each category you need to beat out the specialists like Ovechkin, Matthews etc, which is already unlikely, but then you have to also lead the league in assists at the same time. It is a crazy difficult thing to do. This achievement is a mark of true dominance, which is why only the 3 greatest forwards ever had done it before McDavid. Note, I am only including players who also led the league in goals/game & assists/game to get a true list of "best goal scorer + best player maker" in the same season. Crosby was never remotely close to doing this.


A few more elite lists:

40+ points in a single playoff run

Only done by 3 players: Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux, Connor McDavid

150+ points in 3 consecutive seasons (regular + playoffs)

Only done by 3 players: Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux, Connor McDavid

Players in the 60 goal club & 100 assist club

Only done by 3 players: Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux, Connor McDavid

Top 5 in Hart voting 8 consecutive seasons

Only done by 3 players: Wayne Gretzky, Gordie Howe, Connor McDavid

Pts/game rankings regular season

1) Gretzky, 2) Lemieux, 3) McDavid

Pts/game rankings playoffs

1) Gretzky, 2) Lemieux, 3) McDavid


In summary, McDavid seems to be on a lot of lists that ONLY the greatest forwards ever are on, and those lists do not include Crosby.

McDavid wouldn't be on a lot of these lists either if his prime was in the early 2010s...

 

[crowfish]

McDavid wouldn't be on a lot of these lists either if his prime was in the early 2010s...

Sounds like pure speculation to me, but either way, the first 3 I emphasized are the most important ones, and none of those are era-related.

 

[Golden_Jet]

McDavid wouldn't be on a lot of these lists either if his prime was in the early 2010s...

lol, and you try to come across as not biased.

 

[Coffey]

McDavid wouldn't be on a lot of these lists either if his prime was in the early 2010s...

Do you use that same energy for Wayne, Mario and Gordie?

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Do you use that same energy for Wayne, Mario and Gordie?

Wayne and Mario are the best ever, so not in their case

 

[Coffey]

Wayne and Mario are the best ever, so not in their case

Imagine if they played in the 2010s though.

 

[CokenoPepsi]

Basically to me it seems here

McDavid= Gretzky

Crosby = Lemieux

 

[Video Nasty]

McDavid wouldn't be on a lot of these lists either if his prime was in the early 2010s...

Always some excuse why Crosby couldn’t dominate on an individual level more.

 

[GreatGonzo]

you said Crosby wasn’t particularly strong in the defensive zone, Im assuming your talking about last season. and if your talking about his career in general. Ill just disagree.

I dont know why your so obsessed with this anyways. and yes only one of the two has actually won.

Yes this past season I’ve said he wasn’t strong defensively. Overall? Career? No he wasn’t anything special defensively early on. Got much better and more well rounded in his later years, but then many needed to hype it up and over exaggerate his impact defensively.

McDavid wouldn't be on a lot of these lists either if his prime was in the early 2010s...

We could say the same thing about Crosby then if he came up in the 2020s. Because why not…

Are all your arguments purely speculation and opinion? Like, do you have anything with actual facts attached to it?

 

[GreatGonzo]

for the time being Ill still take Crosby. rather the guy that gets the only one that matters done.
and 3x Cups is more than enough

but McDavid keeps this up. eventually he will for sure over step Crosby. still imo it's premature.

also Id never consider him a top 5 or top 4 bumping one out if he never wins a single cup in his career. fancy records but winning a cup is the only one that matters

If that was true, these would be the GOATS…
1. Richard: 11
2. Beliveau: 10
3. Cournoyer: 10
4. Provost: 9
5: Kelly: 8

There you have it, according to your logic…these are the greatest players to ever play…

 

[Frank Drebin]

Basically to me it seems here

McDavid= Gretzky

Crosby = Lemieux

Mcdavid = dionne
Crosby = toews

 

[snipes]

To get back on the main topic of the thread, here is a list of reasons why McDavid has already proven he is in a tier above Crosby. I don't even think it's particularly close at all. This list is just going to grow each year, and the coping and reality denial from the Crosby side is just going to get worse. I am going to enjoy watching it.


2nd unanimous MVP in NHL history

McDavid is the only player to do it besides Wayne Gretzky, who only did it twice. Note that McDavid would have done this twice as well had it not been for that pathetic Pittsburgh beat writer voting him 5th in MVP voting after one of the best seasons in history. Imagine being that butthurt and petty. Some Penguins fans need to accept that It's okay for your guy to be the 2nd best of the modern game, there is no shame in that.

5 Ross + 3 Hart

I specified these 2 trophies because I believe they are by far the most prestigious individual awards and the most relevant for measuring individual talent for forwards. The Ted Lindsey is good as well for modern players, but historically the voting was a bit weird for that one. The only players in NHL history who have at least McDavids totals for these 2 trophies are: Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux, and Gordie Howe. McDavid has only played 9 seasons so far, and yet nobody in NHL history besides the 3 greatest forwards ever to play have more of these trophies than him. Crosby has 2 Ross + 2 Hart and isn't even close to joining this list.

Led the league in goals & assists in the same season

This sounds less impressive than what it is, but let me explain why this is a big deal. Firstly, it has only been done by 3 other players: Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux and Gordie Howe. The reason this is such a rare achievement is because goals and assists negatively correlate with each other. If you get an assist, that is a goal you didn't get and if you get a goal that is an assist you did not get. To win each category you need to beat out the specialists like Ovechkin, Matthews etc, which is already unlikely, but then you have to also lead the league in assists at the same time. It is a crazy difficult thing to do. This achievement is a mark of true dominance, which is why only the 3 greatest forwards ever had done it before McDavid. Note, I am only including players who also led the league in goals/game & assists/game to get a true list of "best goal scorer + best player maker" in the same season. Crosby was never remotely close to doing this.


A few more elite lists:

40+ points in a single playoff run

Only done by 3 players: Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux, Connor McDavid

150+ points in 3 consecutive seasons (regular + playoffs)

Only done by 3 players: Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux, Connor McDavid

Players in the 60 goal club & 100 assist club

Only done by 3 players: Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux, Connor McDavid

Top 5 in Hart voting 8 consecutive seasons

Only done by 3 players: Wayne Gretzky, Gordie Howe, Connor McDavid

Pts/game rankings regular season

1) Gretzky, 2) Lemieux, 3) McDavid

Pts/game rankings playoffs

1) Gretzky, 2) Lemieux, 3) McDavid


In summary, McDavid seems to be on a lot of lists that ONLY the greatest forwards ever are on, and those lists do not include Crosby.

This should be stickied.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Yes this past season I’ve said he wasn’t strong defensively. Overall? Career? No he wasn’t anything special defensively early on. Got much better and more well rounded in his later years, but then many needed to hype it up and over exaggerate his impact defensively.

We could say the same thing about Crosby then if he came up in the 2020s. Because why not…

Are all your arguments purely speculation and opinion? Like, do you have anything with actual facts attached to it?

okay whatever you say there..... Mr. Flyers fan lmao

 

[Arthur Morgan]

If that was true, these would be the GOATS…
1. Richard: 11
2. Beliveau: 10
3. Cournoyer: 10
4. Provost: 9
5: Kelly: 8

There you have it, according to your logic…these are the greatest players to ever play…

no dont try to go crazy here pal but if McDavid wants to be an alltime great already only 9 seasons into his career. he needs a cup. Im sorry but if you wanna be the best you have to win atleast once.

Im getting sick of this conversation going on 3 or 4 days now. your not going to convince me to rank someone who hasnt won a thing over someone who has gotten it done 3 times,

now enough of your whining and get over it

 

[GreatGonzo]

okay whatever you say there..... Mr. Flyers fan lmao

Not a flyers fan. But nice last attempt there

no dont try to go crazy here pal but if McDavid wants to be an alltime great already only 9 seasons into his career. he needs a cup. Im sorry but if you wanna be the best you have to win atleast once.

Im getting sick of this conversation going on 3 or 4 days now. your not going to convince me to rank someone who hasnt won a thing over someone who has gotten it done 3 times,

now enough of your whining and get over it

He can’t be an all time great without a cup? I think you are arguing at what level of an all time great.

Once again, he hasn’t won a cup. He has won plenty of things

Pointing out the flaw in your argument is whining? You said it was the only one that mattered…

 

[Hockey Outsider]

2nd unanimous MVP in NHL history

McDavid is the only player to do it besides Wayne Gretzky, who only did it twice.

Minor correction - Gretzky was a unanimous Hart winner just once (1982).

 

[crowfish]

Minor correction - Gretzky was a unanimous Hart winner just once (1982).

My bad. No wonder that Pittsburgh beat writer sabotaged his vote.

 

[Golden_Jet]

My bad. No wonder that Pittsburgh beat writer sabotaged his vote.

Should take away voter privileges if every voter had McDavid #1, and voter had him 5th.
Wonder who voter had at 1,2 3 and 4

 

[Xspyrit]

also Id never consider him a top 5 or top 4 bumping one out if he never wins a single cup in his career. fancy records but winning a cup is the only one that matters

There's still people who say that in 2024?

To get back on the main topic of the thread, here is a list of reasons why McDavid has already proven he is in a tier above Crosby. I don't even think it's particularly close at all. This list is just going to grow each year, and the coping and reality denial from the Crosby side is just going to get worse. I am going to enjoy watching it.


2nd unanimous MVP in NHL history

McDavid is the only player to do it besides Wayne Gretzky, who only did it twice. Note that McDavid would have done this twice as well had it not been for that pathetic Pittsburgh beat writer voting him 5th in MVP voting after one of the best seasons in history. Imagine being that butthurt and petty. Some Penguins fans need to accept that It's okay for your guy to be the 2nd best of the modern game, there is no shame in that.

5 Ross + 3 Hart

I specified these 2 trophies because I believe they are by far the most prestigious individual awards and the most relevant for measuring individual talent for forwards. The Ted Lindsey is good as well for modern players, but historically the voting was a bit weird for that one. The only players in NHL history who have at least McDavids totals for these 2 trophies are: Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux, and Gordie Howe. McDavid has only played 9 seasons so far, and yet nobody in NHL history besides the 3 greatest forwards ever to play have more of these trophies than him. Crosby has 2 Ross + 2 Hart and isn't even close to joining this list.

Led the league in goals & assists in the same season

This sounds less impressive than what it is, but let me explain why this is a big deal. Firstly, it has only been done by 3 other players: Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux and Gordie Howe. The reason this is such a rare achievement is because goals and assists negatively correlate with each other. If you get an assist, that is a goal you didn't get and if you get a goal that is an assist you did not get. To win each category you need to beat out the specialists like Ovechkin, Matthews etc, which is already unlikely, but then you have to also lead the league in assists at the same time. It is a crazy difficult thing to do. This achievement is a mark of true dominance, which is why only the 3 greatest forwards ever had done it before McDavid. Note, I am only including players who also led the league in goals/game & assists/game to get a true list of "best goal scorer + best player maker" in the same season. Crosby was never remotely close to doing this.


A few more elite lists:

40+ points in a single playoff run

Only done by 3 players: Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux, Connor McDavid

150+ points in 3 consecutive seasons (regular + playoffs)

Only done by 3 players: Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux, Connor McDavid

Players in the 60 goal club & 100 assist club

Only done by 3 players: Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux, Connor McDavid

Top 5 in Hart voting 8 consecutive seasons

Only done by 3 players: Wayne Gretzky, Gordie Howe, Connor McDavid

Pts/game rankings regular season

1) Gretzky, 2) Lemieux, 3) McDavid

Pts/game rankings playoffs

1) Gretzky, 2) Lemieux, 3) McDavid


In summary, McDavid seems to be on a lot of lists that ONLY the greatest forwards ever are on, and those lists do not include Crosby.

I mean, if anyone reads this and is still in denial after that, then nothing will change their mind.

Except time, because time is the only thing that changes people's mind and eventually get them out of denial. The human being is such a weird animal with this, absolutely REFUSES to see the reality for what it is until their brain tells them they are finally ready

 

[Xspyrit]

Double post

 

[Video Nasty]

There's still people who say that in 2024?



I mean, if anyone reads this and is still in denial after that, then nothing will change their mind.

Except time, because time is the only thing that changes people's mind and eventually get them out of denial. The human being is such a weird animal with this, absolutely REFUSES to see the reality for what it is until their brain tells them they are finally ready

I’ve been saying for years that all but his most diehard detractors will be shedding tears during his retirement tour. The others who are holdouts could enjoy it now, but what can you do?

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Not a flyers fan. But nice last attempt there

He can’t be an all time great without a cup? I think you are arguing at what level of an all time great.

Once again, he hasn’t won a cup. He has won plenty of things

Pointing out the flaw in your argument is whining? You said it was the only one that mattered…

kinda stupid to have a Flyers logo in ur avatar if your not a fan.........

well I hope you enjoy all the personal awards because winning a cup is the whole reason to play.

he's not above Crosby 9 seasons into his career. not yet. guy hasnt even passed Crosby in points and hasn;'t won what really matters a cup.

and yeah you have been basically whining and going wayyy over the top with your arguments, going on 3 or 4 days now of pure nonsense with you having me explain multiple times clear English. Ive had enough of seeing your name pop up.

we are not going to agree. live with it

There's still people who say that in 2024?



I mean, if anyone reads this and is still in denial after that, then nothing will change their mind.

Except time, because time is the only thing that changes people's mind and eventually get them out of denial. The human being is such a weird animal with this, absolutely REFUSES to see the reality for what it is until their brain tells them they are finally ready

how do you bump out the greats without passing them in points or winning a cup when all the greats have won? it makes no sense. McDavid is an incredible player but his career is still very young.