Is Connor Mcdavid a "tier above" Sidney Crosby as a player?

[wetcoast]

That’s basically a pot meet kettle in this thread.

My player evaluation and analysis all time doesn't change for different players.

The poster I was referring to does in one specific instance and everyone knows it.

 

[GreatGonzo]

The story line is already written. Crosby was the youngest captain to win a cup. He has the golden goal. He had everything worth winning by the time he was 23.

Your bias is easily viewed right now.



Probably. He's going to go down as one of the 5 best forwards to ever play the game and beyond that he's arguably the most well liked player in the league since Gretzky.

Weird how every Crosby thread is just you two talking endless crap for 80+ pages. Almost like it's personal. Like the anti-daver.

Im talking about your little 2026 story.

What’s bias about my view? Go on…

I don’t think I’ve had nearly as many terrible takes/opinions as Daver not even close. His History forum thread says everything.

 

[Gurglesons]

Im talking about your little 2026 story.

What’s bias about my view? Go on…

I don’t think I’ve had nearly as many terrible takes/opinions as Daver not even close. His History forum thread says everything.

You don't like Crosby and it influences your opinion of what he's done.

His career is at worst top 10 all time. You act like he's done nothing special and mock users for saying things like he's one of the best leaders of all time.

Every single player that has played with Crosby from day one has said things like that.

He's a unicorn.

 

[GreatGonzo]

You don't like Crosby and it influences your opinion of what he's done.

His career is at worst top 10 all time. You act like he's done nothing special and mock users for saying things like he's one of the best leaders of all time.

Every single player that has played with Crosby from day one has said things like that.

He's a unicorn.

I don’t like him? Based on what? Not agreeing with any and every terrible take that’s being spouted off? This may be new to you, but just because someone doesn’t agree with you doesn’t mean they “dislike” the player or “hate” them.

Well that’s just one big giant strawman right there. The argument was him being a better PLAYER due to him being a better LEADER.

I’m sure many have said that. I never said he as a bad leader, I used examples of his “leadership” not translating to points or overall impact.

 

[archangel2]

McDavid needs to win something to even get into the conversation

 

[Gurglesons]

I don’t like him? Based on what? Not agreeing with any and every terrible take that’s being spouted off? This may be new to you, but just because someone doesn’t agree with you doesn’t mean they “dislike” the player or “hate” them.

Well that’s just one big giant strawman right there. The argument was him being a better PLAYER due to him being a better LEADER.

I’m sure many have said that. I never said he as a bad leader, I used examples of his “leadership” not translating to points or overall impact.

It's hilarious how you can't even admit to your own bit.

Everyone on the board knows what it is.

 

[GreatGonzo]

McDavid needs to win something to even get into the conversation

Something? Like anything?

I love reading “he hasn’t won anything.” You can really tell he simply wants to be deliberately obtuse.

It's hilarious how you can't even admit to your own bit.

Everyone on the board knows what it is.

It’s more hilarious that YOU can’t say how I’m bias

 

[Gurglesons]

Something? Like anything?

I love reading “he hasn’t won anything.” You can really tell he simply wants to be deliberately obtuse.


It’s more hilarious that YOU can’t say how I’m bias

I've already clarified it. You don't like Crosby and it influences your posts. It's why if I searched GreatGonzo "Crosby" there's probably 3000 of your 9000 posts arguing about how Crosby isn't as good as so and so.

It's weird how you are denying it. Live up to the bit. You've been doing it for literal years now lol.

 

[brock hughes007]

Mc,duchbag can win all the scoring titles and trophy's ge wants.Until he wins a couple Cups it's not even comparable.

 

[GreatGonzo]

Everyone on the board knows what it is.

Im all ears…

I've already clarified it. You don't like Crosby and it influences your posts. It's why if I searched GreatGonzo "Crosby" there's probably 3000 of your 9000 posts arguing about how Crosby isn't as good as so and so.

It's weird how you are denying it. Live up to the bit. You've been doing it for literal years now lol.

And again, not true at all. That’s your own lazy way of justifying someone else not feeling the way you do. It’s that simple, and it’s a personal problem on your part more than it is me disliking a person and not making sense

How Crosby isn’t good? Again, go ahead….show me a time I said Crosby simply “isnt good”.

 

[Gurglesons]

Im all ears…

I just literally perused your post history.

Every post going back to 2020 is you defending someone over Sid or Lemieux lol.

Change your username to anti-daver.

 

[GreatGonzo]

I just literally perused your post history.

Every post going back to 2020 is you defending someone over Sid or Lemieux lol.

Change your username to anti-daver.

Then post one

Since there’s so many….

 

[Gurglesons]

And again, not true at all. That’s your own lazy way of justifying someone else not feeling the way you do. It’s that simple, and it’s a personal problem on your part more than it is me disliking a person and not making sense.

I think McDavid likely finishes above Crosby because I can't imagine he doesn't win one Cup and his regular season accolades and post season accolades are already above what Sid has done.

So not sure I feel that differently.

Then post one

Since there’s so many….

Search results

forums.hfboards.com

 

[GreatGonzo]

I think McDavid likely finishes above Crosby because I can't imagine he doesn't win one Cup and his regular season accolades and post season accolades are already above what Sid has done.

So not sure I feel that differently.

Search results

forums.hfboards.com

So if you agree with me, what am I hating on?

Cool, instead of posting my search history, show me where I said Crosby “wasn’t good.”

 

[norrisnick]

Weird how every Crosby thread is just you two talking endless crap for 80+ pages. Almost like it's personal. Like the anti-daver.

It's the offseason, dude. I'm bored off my ass at work. It's about the least personal it can get.

 

[Gurglesons]

So if you agree with me, what am I hating on?

Cool, instead of posting my search history, show me where I said Crosby “wasn’t good.”

Your entire bit is discrediting Crosby in every thread you post in.

It’s honestly bizarre you are trying to deny it.

It's the offseason, dude. I'm bored off my ass at work. It's about the least personal it can get.

Weird how the two guys who always show up to discredit Sid have a Flyers avatar and a Red Wings username.

I actually sympathize with you two. I think Patrice Bergeron is incredibly overrated and it’s largely because I hate the Bruins.

Just be honest about it.

 

[wetcoast]

Well here’s the issue….

Many in here(and other threads) aren’t giving 50% blame to McDavid. They are giving him ALL the blame. And it varies from
-didn’t produce when it mattered
-only stacked points in “meaningless” games
-didn’t play a better “all around game.”
-isn’t a good enough leader
-didn’t “elevate” his teammates

All these points have been covered. That’s why I ask if you think these same posters would give 100% of the blame to Crosby if they had lost. Do you think they would have? Or would they still find reasons and justifications as to why he couldn’t “get it done?”

I also don’t understand how it’s unreasonable to say he played poorly in the finals. You say it’s not all about stats…but again, what other “stats” or evidence do you have to suggest that he didn’t play poorly….because he won?

I stopped reading after your use of the word many when it's pretty clear that it's a minority and less than 5% of poster and/or people that voted in this poll most likely.

Your reference about Florida and how you represent Crosby is laughable when one looks at the makeup of 2024 Panthers, 07-08 Penguins and Red Wings.

But the major differences are that McDavid faced the best defensive(two way) forward in the league,

Yet detroit had prime Datsyuk/Zetterberg and some guy named Lidstrom on defense.

one of the best goalies(and before game 4 was putting on a clinic),

Bob had a .915 save% in the regular season this year and .906 in the playoffs he wasn't exactly vintage Carey Price, he had his moments to be sure but man the exaggeration here is mindblowing.

Osgood in comparison had a .930 save% in the finals in 08 and overall in the playoffs and led the NHL in GAA in 08.

and one of the best defensive teams in the league. He was still able to produce regardless.

McDavid blew up in games 4 and 5 with 8 points in 2 games even he wasn't consistent in the stat line although he was pushing the pace just didn't have very much puck luck

Did he show up in games 6 and 7? He didn’t produce but I definitely wouldn’t say he played poorly.

We will agree here but your argument that crosby played poorly seems to be based on teh stat line and little else like context.

But like I said, if he had more secondary scoring in game 7 like he did in games 6 and 4 like Crosby did, it would have made a world of difference and funny enough, would have made him a better leader and player to many..

You seem very reasonable on the topic, so I’m not directing this totally at you…but why is McDavids reputation as a player and leader being questioned after his performance, while Crosbys finals play is getting a lot of intangible arguments mixed with justifications on why he didn’t perform?(Zetterberg, injuries, “all around play.”)

Crosby doesn't have a strong stat line for SC finals but it's a stretch to say that he has played poorly in the SC finals and the overall playoff resume is extremely impressive but yet some will nitpick a few games here and there and skip context.

The possession stats back that up as well but your focus on one players poor stat line versus the other players not so great final games is night and day....and very predictable.

 

[wetcoast]

im not going to argue any season over another. but I mean Crosby has gotten the job done 3 times and scored the game winning goal getting Gold for Team Canada.

I think both players are beyond incredible. but I value Crosby's all round game and leadership a little more. he might not be as good as McDavid offensively but he's not far off.

with all of that, I just think its tough to agree McDavid over Crosby. need to see little more, and even if McDavid won the cup. I would still go with Crosby....... for now. but it would be a big help.

Agree with most of this but I'm not a SC or even a trophy counter, people put way too much stock into those over the overall (considering everything about each player highs and lows) performance of a player.

 

[norrisnick]

Weird how the two guys who always show up to discredit Sid have a Flyers avatar and a Red Wings username.

I actually sympathize with you two. I think Patrice Bergeron is incredibly overrated and it’s largely because I hate the Bruins.

Just be honest about it.

What discrediting? I see a whole bunch with regards to a guy with 5 Scoring titles and 3 Harts, but you don't seem to be too bothered about that.

 

[Gurglesons]

What discrediting? I see a whole bunch with regards to a guy with 5 Scoring titles and 3 Harts, but you don't seem to be too bothered about that.

I haven’t seen any posters similar to you two and MJ having to go into every McDavid thread to discredit him.

A lot of it is people that value championships over individual accolades which is fair in my view.

 

[Midnight Judges]

He is tied for the most cups of anyone in his generation.

No he isn't.

At some point maybe Crosby fans realize fact checking their falsehoods isn't "discrediting."

 

[GreatGonzo]

Your entire bit is discrediting Crosby in every thread you post in.

It’s honestly bizarre you are trying to deny it.



Weird how the two guys who always show up to discredit Sid have a Flyers avatar and a Red Wings username.

I actually sympathize with you two. I think Patrice Bergeron is incredibly overrated and it’s largely because I hate the Bruins.

Just be honest about it.

What did I “discredit” about Crosby?…

So you are the hater then?

I stopped reading after your use of the word many when it's pretty clear that it's a minority and less than 5% of poster and/or people that voted in this poll most likely.

Your reference about Florida and how you represent Crosby is laughable when one looks at the makeup of 2024 Panthers, 07-08 Penguins and Red Wings.



Yet detroit had prime Datsyuk/Zetterberg and some guy named Lidstrom on defense.



Bob had a .915 save% in the regular season this year and .906 in the playoffs he wasn't exactly vintage Carey Price, he had his moments to be sure but man the exaggeration here is mindblowing.

Osgood in comparison had a .930 save% in the finals in 08 and overall in the playoffs and led the NHL in GAA in 08.


McDavid blew up in games 4 and 5 with 8 points in 2 games even he wasn't consistent in the stat line although he was pushing the pace just didn't have very much puck luck


We will agree here but your argument that crosby played poorly seems to be based on teh stat line and little else like context.


Crosby doesn't have a strong stat line for SC finals but it's a stretch to say that he has played poorly in the SC finals and the overall playoff resume is extremely impressive but yet some will nitpick a few games here and there and skip context.

The possession stats back that up as well but your focus on one players poor stat line versus the other players not so great final games is night and day....and very predictable.

Ok that’s literally how it’s been broken down. Sorry if that disturbs your way of thinking.

So again, we are going back to the excuse that it’s not that Crosby wasn’t good enough, the match ups were just way too difficult. Just say that.

Look at that, trying to change the goal posts true or false: Bob was a Vezina finalist this past year….true of false: Bob was rocking a .953 after 3 games in the finals and was a heavy Smythe favorite. But please, go on about Osgood…

Ok how about This, you prove to me that Crosby didn’t play poor in the finals in ‘09. Because what’s so funny is how…when it comes to Crosby, it’s not all about stats….yet people love attacking McDavid for not scoring in games 6 and 7….

He is very underwhelming and honestly mediocre overall for a player of his caliber in the finals. I mean this is the best player and playoff performer of his generation and one all time, yet he struggled in the finals almost every year.

Like I said, you seem to have some evidence that Crosby didn’t play poorly in the ‘09 finals and I would love to hear it…

 

[norrisnick]

I haven’t seen any posters similar to you two and MJ having to go into every McDavid thread to discredit him.

A lot of it is people that value championships over individual accolades which is fair in my view.

You also aren't looking very hard, because you don't care about McDavid as much as you care about Crosby.

That is giving credit to individuals for the achievements of teams. Which seems silly when comparing individuals on different teams.

It's been referenced countless times now, but [insert Oiler 4th liner scoring two goals in game 7] doesn't magically make McDavid a better player. But some would have you believe it would. What's the value of that credit?

 

[Midnight Judges]

My player evaluation and analysis all time doesn't change for different players.

The poster I was referring to does in one specific instance and everyone knows it.

You got busted on a falsehood. The integrity move would have been to fess up about it.

 

[Gurglesons]

No he isn't.

At some point maybe Crosby fans realize fact checking their falsehoods isn't "discrediting."

Who has more cups than Crosby in his generation?