Is Connor Mcdavid a "tier above" Sidney Crosby as a player?

[GreatGonzo]

im not going to argue any season over another. but I mean Crosby has gotten the job done 3 times and scored the game winning goal getting Gold for Team Canada.

I think both players are beyond incredible. but I value Crosby's all round game and leadership a little more. he might not be as good as McDavid offensively but he's not far off.

with all of that, I just think its tough to agree McDavid over Crosby. need to see little more, and even if McDavid won the cup. I would still go with Crosby....... for now. but it would be a big help.

Again, two things that are very convenient. Both cannot be measured and are entirely intangible based. This also happens to follow the whole idea that McDavid only scores more points….attempting to belittle his offensive advantage.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Again, two things that are very convenient. Both cannot be measured and are entirely intangible based. This also happens to follow the whole idea that McDavid only scores more points….attempting to belittle his offensive advantage.

well I disagree and it's a reason I rate him higher than McDavid. I find Crosby is better in every aspect of the game other than offense over McDavid.

and no McDavid does do more than JUST score more points but I think Crosby is better at it

also a proven winner and has done it 3 times. GWG for Gold is pretty huge too.

imo McDavid just hasn't done enough yet to justify him over Crosby right now

 

[GreatGonzo]

well I disagree and it's a reason I rate him higher than McDavid. I find Crosby is better in every aspect of the game other than offense over McDavid.

and no McDavid does do more than JUST score more points but I think Crosby is better at it

also a proven winner and has done it 3 times. GWG for Gold is pretty huge too.

imo McDavid just hasn't done enough yet to justify him over Crosby right now

Leadership has no measure, no stat. It’s purely subjective and opinion based, that’s why it’s perfect because it can’t be disproven objectively like stats can.

Crosby is better at scoring points? Interesting, how?

Again it’s easy to be a “proven winner” with capable teammates and organizations surround them.

 

[pi314]

Nobody is hating that's what you're not understanding , its not hate to have 97 over sid !!!

You're personally not.

But there are about 12 regular posters who show up in every Penguins thread.

Sid lives rent free in their heads.

They always post the same tired rhetoric.

Many have been at it for years and years and years.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

You're personally not.

But there are about 12 regular posters who show up in every Penguins thread.

Sid lives rent free in their heads.

They always post the same tired rhetoric.

Many have been at it for years and years and years.

Yes and McDavid gets the exact same thing that happens to him , so did Ovi , I'm sure Gretzky would as well if HFboards was around.

I really don't see the Crosby hate that you see in this thread...

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Leadership has no measure, no stat. It’s purely subjective and opinion based, that’s why it’s perfect because it can’t be disproven objectively like stats can.

Crosby is better at scoring points? Interesting, how?

Again it’s easy to be a “proven winner” with capable teammates and organizations surround them.

where did I say that? oh you mean when I said that Crosby is better at every aspect of the game over McDavid other than offense?

dude one of those Cups PIT had a terrible D and Matt Murray in net. let's not pretend pens were extremely stacked

some things dont need stats too. and Im sorry but it's still too early to place McDavid over Crosby

 

[GreatGonzo]

where did I say that? oh you mean when I said that Crosby is better at every aspect of the game over McDavid other than offense?

dude one of those Cups PIT had a terrible D and Matt Murray in net. let's not pretend pens were extremely stacked

some things dont need stats too. and Im sorry but it's still too early to place McDavid over Crosby

“and no McDavid does do more than JUST score more points but I think Crosby is better at it.”

By “it” did you mean scoring?

You think Edmontons D and goaltending were good? I’m sure you are referring to 2017, and yes not having Letang and some shaky goaltending was a problem but their offense more than made up for it.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

“and no McDavid does do more than JUST score more points but I think Crosby is better at it.”

By “it” did you mean scoring?

You think Edmontons D and goaltending were good? I’m sure you are referring to 2017, and yes not having Letang and some shaky goaltending was a problem but their offense more than made up for it.

wow...... really? are you just ignoring where I said other than offense?

[mod] it means I think Crosby is better at every aspect of the game other than scoring(offense)

and yeah McDavid does do more than just score more points. he's just not as well rounded as Crosby is.

actually im sure there are advanced stats for the defensive side of the game

 

[dekelikekocur]

We’ve now reached the point of Crosby’s incredible leadership “willed” the Pens to win game 7 while he stapled to the bench.

It’s incredible they haven’t won the cup every season with an aura as strong as his.

I’m bowing out, this thread has reached lunacy status from certain posters

I mean he tried to staple himself to Mules back, that's how Crosby got hurt, Mule tried to pick the flee off using the boards.

 

[Felidae]

Zetterberg deserves a lot of credit that he rarely receives. Fans look at that 09 series as a failure of Crosby's (or Toews in 2013) but at a certain point you've got to acknowledge the incredible talent level #40 had at shutting down the opposition and completely getting in their heads. I would bet Zetterberg would have done something similar to McDavid if he was 28 years old on the 2024 Panthers.

I think you're a meathead if you just post the stat-line and have that be your argument. It betrays your ignorance to what went down those playoff series. I'm biased but the 1C's: Toews/Zetterberg/Kopitar/Barkov are my favorite type of player in the league. At a cost of a few tens of decimals to their PPG they majorly impact a series by being dominant in all three zones.

I mean. It sort of happened with Barkov? Not to the same degree as Zetterberg/Crosby where the former shut him down AND outscored him, and obviously I'm not saying Barkov>McDavid in the series.

but when they were on the ice together, McDavid actually scored very little against him. I don't have the exact stats on me but it was something like 1 goal against Barkov EV. Vast majority of McDavids points were against other Panther lines.

 

[GreatGonzo]

wow...... really? are you just ignoring where I said other than offense?

[mod] it means I think Crosby is better at every aspect of the game other than scoring(offense)

and yeah McDavid does do more than just score more points. he's just not as well rounded as Crosby is.

actually im sure there are advanced stats for the defensive side of the game

I just wanted to clarify, it sounded like that’s what you asked…

So…defense? Ok…is there more aspects to the game outside of offensive ones?

let me know when you find them…

 

[BlueBaron]

That still doesn’t answer anything. As players, they aren’t comparable at all.

“look at the stats and figure it out.” Or….you can just say who you were referring to instead of playing these stupid games.

Ok. One is the best player the other an elite leader. Hope that helps

 

[GreatGonzo]

I mean. It sort of happened with Barkov? Not to the same degree as Zetterberg/Crosby where the former shut him down AND outscored him, and obviously I'm not saying Barkov/McDavid in the series.

but when they were on the ice together, McDavid actually scored very little against him. I don't have the exact stats on me but it was something like 1 goal against Barkov EV. Vast majority of McDavids points were against other Panther lines.

I mean I can’t counter that but it seems odd that they wouldn’t deploy their best defensive player against the oilers best scorer and top player…

Ok. One is the best player the other an elite leader. Hope that helps

“Elite leader”

What makes an “elite leader” compared to an “average leader.”

 

[BlueBaron]

I mean I can’t counter that but it seems odd that they wouldn’t deploy their best defensive player against the oilers best scorer and top player…


“Elite leader”

What makes an “elite leader” compared to an “average leader.”

Hardware. You're trying too hard

 

[bambamcam4ever]

I mean he tried to staple himself to Mules back, that's how Crosby got hurt, Mule tried to pick the flee off using the boards.

Lol Franzen was interfering with him because the Ref Wings were never called for it.

 

[Gurglesons]

“Elite leader”

What makes an “elite leader” compared to an “average leader.”

This is why nobody takes you seriously.

Who in the modern game beyond the obvious 2 names compares to what Sid has done from a winning standpoint in literally every possible opportunity?

He is tied for the most cups of anyone in his generation.

He has multiple gold medals where he was the # 1 C.

MVP at the World Cup. Gold at the WJC. 2015 WC Gold.

Not sure why it's difficult to grasp especially when it's all anyone in the league ever says about him.

He took his idol's game and somehow improved on it in Yzerman.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

I just wanted to clarify, it sounded like that’s what you asked…

So…defense? Ok…is there more aspects to the game outside of offensive ones?

let me know when you find them…

Just took 3 posts for you to understand something I wrote in simple English. I dont have all night to help you understand what Im talking about. Im sorry you disagree with me.... there have a good night

This is why nobody takes you seriously.

Who in the modern game beyond the obvious 2 names compares to what Sid has done from a winning standpoint in literally every possible opportunity?

He is tied for the most cups of anyone in his generation.

He has multiple gold medals where he was the # 1 C.

MVP at the World Cup. Gold at the WJC. 2015 WC Gold.

Not sure why it's difficult to grasp especially when it's all anyone in the league ever says about him.

He took his idol's game and somehow improved on it in Yzerman.

perfectly said. like how does McDavid just place over this. hasn't won a thing

 

[Gurglesons]

perfectly said. like how does McDavid just place over this. hasn't won a thing

McDavid is a better individual contributor than Crosby at this point. McDavid has proven he's better in the regular season and has put up two Lemieux / Gretzky type runs in the playoffs. Sid never did that.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

McDavid is a better individual contributor than Crosby at this point. McDavid has proven he's better in the regular season and has put up two Lemieux / Gretzky type runs in the playoffs. Sid never did that.

yeah I get that, but still. imo he hasnt done enough in his 9 seasons to over take Crosby yet. was never arguing its impossible for him to over take Crosby

 

[crowfish]

2 years ago the Penguins controlled their fate for making the playoffs with 2 games to go and their opponents were Chicago & Columbus (who were both tanking for Bedard)...

Crosby was -2 with zero points as the Penguins lost to Chicago—season over. No "willing" his teammates to victory that time I guess.

Cherry-picking "clutch" moments over a 19-year career is not evidence of anything, the same way my cherry-picked example is not proof that he is "not clutch". The truth is somewhere in the middle.

 

[GreatGonzo]

This is why nobody takes you seriously.

Who in the modern game beyond the obvious 2 names compares to what Sid has done from a winning standpoint in literally every possible opportunity?

He is tied for the most cups of anyone in his generation.

He has multiple gold medals where he was the # 1 C.

MVP at the World Cup. Gold at the WJC. 2015 WC Gold.

Not sure why it's difficult to grasp especially when it's all anyone in the league ever says about him.

He took his idol's game and somehow improved on it in Yzerman.

It was a simple question, if you can’t answer it simply than it sounds like there really isn’t a great answer, is there?

Niedermayer Was the captain though in 2010 for team canada….wasnt he? So he technically “lead” them to glory.

Because there is nothing to grasp….”leadership” is completely intangible. And using it is just plain Lazy because all it is, is YOUR word versus someone else’s. It’s

Just took 3 posts for you to understand something I wrote in simple English. I dont have all night to help you understand what Im talking about. Im sorry you disagree with me.... there have a good night


perfectly said. like how does McDavid just place over this. hasn't won a thing

Just say you can’t answer the question I don’t believe I was out of line seeking clarity.

So, by “a thing”…..you mean team achievements? Or overall….might want to correct that at risk of looking really silly…

 

[Gurglesons]

It was a simple question, if you can’t answer it simply than it sounds like there really isn’t a great answer, is there?

Niedermayer Was the captain though in 2010 for team canada….wasnt he? So he technically “lead” them to glory.

Because there is nothing to grasp….”leadership” is completely intangible. And using it is just plain Lazy because all it is, is YOUR word versus someone else’s.

Crosby will be viewed as one of if not the greatest "leader" in hockey history when he retires.

Your bias won't matter when it comes to the historic context of what he has done. You can say it is "intangible", but anyone that has watched the player knows what it is he brings.

The quotes will come out in buckets as they do today. Look at how Nate MacKinnon talks about Sid. I'm sure if the Canadians win in 2026, it'll be shaped as the moment McDavid learned how to win from Sid or some nonsense.

 

[GreatGonzo]

Crosby will be viewed as one of if not the greatest "leader" in hockey history when he retires.

Your bias won't matter when it comes to the historic context of what he has done. You can say it is "intangible", but anyone that has watched the player knows what it is he brings.

The quotes will come out in buckets as they do today. Look at how Nate MacKinnon talks about Sid. I'm sure if the Canadians win in 2026, it'll be shaped as the moment McDavid learned how to win from Sid or some nonsense.

it’s bias to say Crosby is the better PLAYER because he’s a better LEADER. There is no weight behind that statement or claim.

That’s a nice story line…..let’s cross that bridge when we get there, shall we? Because McDavid hasn’t really had the opportunity to play for Team Canada on that big of a stage, and that shouldn’t be held against him.

 

[norrisnick]

Crosby will be viewed as one of if not the greatest "leader" in hockey history when he retires.

Your bias won't matter when it comes to the historic context of what he has done. You can say it is "intangible", but anyone that has watched the player knows what it is he brings.

The quotes will come out in buckets as they do today. Look at how Nate MacKinnon talks about Sid. I'm sure if the Canadians win in 2026, it'll be shaped as the moment McDavid learned how to win from Sid or some nonsense.

Will he get a nifty leadership award like Mess?

 

[Gurglesons]

it’s bias to say Crosby is the better PLAYER because he’s a better LEADER. There is no weight behind that statement or claim.

That’s a nice story line…..let’s cross that bridge when we get there, shall we? Because McDavid hasn’t really had the opportunity to play for Team Canada on that big of a stage, and that shouldn’t be held against him.

The story line is already written. Crosby was the youngest captain to win a cup. He has the golden goal. He had everything worth winning by the time he was 23.

Your bias is easily viewed right now.

Will he get a nifty leadership award like Mess?

Probably. He's going to go down as one of the 5 best forwards to ever play the game and beyond that he's arguably the most well liked player in the league since Gretzky.

Weird how every Crosby thread is just you two talking endless crap for 80+ pages. Almost like it's personal. Like the anti-daver.