Is Connor Mcdavid a "tier above" Sidney Crosby as a player?

[Dion TheFluff]

no. I think McDavid is better but mostly due to health. 2011 - 2013 Crosby would absolutely be on McDavid's current level or atleast close to it if he were able to stay healthy. Unfortunately we never really got to see Crosby consistently at his peak.

 

[molon labe]

Unfortunate that early comments in a thread derail the entire conversation and create immediate response bias. Nature of attention spans though.

When the hyperbole dies down, the average folk will actually understand how hard the consistency Sid demonstrated was through two, arguably 3 eras of hockey.

McDavid entered a league that Sid & Co created - one of high pace hockey with a LOT less physicality. Sid entered the league 10 years prior in an entirely different world - defense structures, player physicality, goaltending, scoring - you name it. He's won in two distinct eras and has performed through three. Arguing against his greatness is foolish.

Yeah McDavid is great - but you can't put him back in time no more than you can make Sid a rookie in this league with watered down goalies and talent spread thinner. Is what it is.

I'll take Sid having watched him, but I'm not trying to discredit McDavid. Only that the takes on him seem to be desperation-attempts to make him something he's not (yet). Let it be.

 

[hamzarocks]

Oh man do you think Ovie will make the 25-30 hall of fame? -Which most definitely is a thing that you didn't just invent?

You got shown that OV wasnt held back by environment, he constantly failed to produce at level needed to be a ross contender outside of 2008 - 2010

Your post is just being butt hurt that OV couldnt keep up.

Mackinnons 2018 - now prime is better than OVs prime including 2005 - 2010 stretch

Same with Kucherov from 2017 to now

Neither look to be as one dimensional as OV was after 2010 and wont fall off the way he did

The very best Current players are superior to OV and much more consistent point producers

 

[Midnight Judges]

You got shown that OV wasnt held back by environment, he constantly failed to produce at level needed to be a ross contender outside of 2008 - 2010

Your post is just being butt hurt that OV couldnt keep up.

Mackinnons 2018 - now prime is better than OVs prime including 2005 - 2010 stretch

Same with Kucherov from 2017 to now

The very best Current players are superior to OV and much more consistent point producers

Oh man so if you pretend a player's best 4 seasons didn't happen, then they don't rank as highly?

Wow you are truly onto something here.

I look forward to you comparing Matthews's 5th-10th best seasons against other player's 1st to 6th best seasons - which you were no doubt intending to do since you are consistent.

 

[hamzarocks]

Oh man so if you pretend a player's best 4 seasons didn't happen, then they don't rank as highly?

Wow you are truly onto something here.

I look forward to you comparing Matthews's 5th-10th best seasons against other player's 1st to 6th best seasons - which you were no doubt intending to do since you are consistent.

It was 3 best years since 2006 and 2007 he wasnt top 3 in ppg in the league

From 2008 to 2010 he was which was his peak and prime as an offensive producer but it was short period compared to other current superstars who are at 7 or 8 years of this level if play

Mackinnons 1st to 5th best seasons are better than OVs

2018, 2020, 2021, 2023, & 2024 > 2008, 2009, 2010, 2013, 2015(or 2006)

Kucherovs

2017, 2018, 2019, 2022, 2024 > 2008, 2009, 2010, 2013, and 2015 (or 2006)

Kucherov and Mackinnon have more years outsude those top 5 at that level

Mackinnon has 2019 and 2022

Kucherov has 2020, and 2023

OVs best seasons came in worse competition environment vs Mackinnon, Kucherov, and Draisaitl all competing against each other for 2nd to 4th best player in the league after the 2nd to 4th best player ever Mcdavid

You put 19-25 year old OV here, hes getting destroyed by Mcdavid just like they usually are. Level of competition is just a lot higher.

 

[Offtheboard412]

It was 3 best years since 2006 and 2007 he wasnt top 3 in ppg in the league

From 2008 to 2010 he was which was his peak and prime as an offensive producer but it was short period compared to other current superstars who are at 7 or 8 years of this level if play

Mackinnons 1st to 5th best seasons are better than OVs

2018, 2020, 2021, 2023, & 2024 > 2008, 2009, 2010, 2013, 2015(or 2006)

Kucherovs

2017, 2018, 2019, 2022, 2024 > 2008, 2009, 2010, 2013, and 2015 (or 2006)

Kucherov and Mackinnon have more years outsude those top 5 at that level

Mackinnon has 2019 and 2022

Kucherov has 2020, and 2023

OVs best seasons came in worse competition environment vs Mackinnon, Kucherov, and Draisaitl all competing against each other for 2nd to 4th best player in the league after the 2nd to 4th best player ever Mcdavid

You put 19-25 year old OV here, hes getting destroyed by Mcdavid just like they usually are. Level of competition is just a lot higher.

McDavid has two seasons where he would "destroy" prime Ovechkin, 20/21 and 22/23. Every other Art Ross he's won he's been much closer to the pack and Mackinnon pretty much matched his pace in 17/18. 07/08-09/10 Ovechkin would be right there with him in 16/17, 17/18 and 21/22. So it would really just depend on how the years lined up.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Would you mind reading the bolded part again?



How do you explain the part where they shrunk goalie pads and we went from 1 guy breaking 100 points to 15?

It’s very easy to hoodwink average joes with raw point totals.

Then let’s not even get to the part where there’s a whole game without the puck.

You mean how he won 3 cups with good teams surrounded around him? Almost like it takes a good team to win a cup? Or does Henri Richard > Crosby.

McDavid has 2 playoff runs better than anything Crosby has done.

 

[pi314]

You mean how he won 3 cups with good teams surrounded around him? Almost like it takes a good team to win a cup? Or does Henri Richard > Crosby.

McDavid has 2 playoff runs better than anything Crosby has done.

And zero cups.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

This thread has jumped the shark with some of these comments. In the span of 19 pages it's now become Crosby isn't even a generational player and somehow Fleury's a big reason the Pens won 3 Cups despite him not even being the starter in 2 of those runs.

Crosby can be all these things.

Generational.
Play on a great team.
Be worse than McDavid.

Crosby is still one of my favorite players to watch of all time, people also underrate how fast he was before his injuries.

 

[TheAngryHank]

Tier above everyone not named Mario or Wayne

 

[Tobias Kahun]

And zero cups.

So you didn't dispute anything.

 

[pld459666]

McDavid does everything Sid did, but at a much higher rate of speed.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Crosby can be all these things.

Generational.
Play on a great team.
Be worse than McDavid.

Crosby is still one of my favorite players to watch of all time, people also underrate how fast he was before his injuries.

Not sure why you quoted me? I was referring to someone saying Crosby's not actually generational and another poster acting like Fleury's goaltending was a big reason for ALL THREE Cups. Both are dumb takes.

 

[JAK]

Had McDavid been born earlier, he would have had his career derailed by concussions and goons taking out his knees.

His talent fit the style the league is in near perfectly.

It's just a shame it's wasted on the Oilers

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Not sure why you quoted me? I was referring to someone saying Crosby's not actually generational and another poster acting like Fleury's goaltending was a big reason for ALL THREE Cups. Both are dumb takes.

Okay fair, I didnt even see a quote in your post actually.

And yes, those arent the best takes.

And Matt Murray was the starter for 2 of them

Had McDavid been born earlier, he would have had his career derailed by concussions and goons taking out his knees.

His talent fit the style the league is in near perfectly.

It's just a shame it's wasted on the Oilers

It's a shame the canucks folded in game 6 and 7.

You guys could've been champs this year!.

 

[MacMacandBarbie]

McDavid does everything Sid did, but at a much higher rate of speed.

He’s not as efficient in garbage areas around the net, as deadly from behind the net, as ferocious along board battles, and his backhand shot isn’t as consistent as Crosby’s.

 

[PainForShane]

It was 3 best years since 2006 and 2007 he wasnt top 3 in ppg in the league

From 2008 to 2010 he was which was his peak and prime as an offensive producer but it was short period compared to other current superstars who are at 7 or 8 years of this level if play

Mackinnons 1st to 5th best seasons are better than OVs

2018, 2020, 2021, 2023, & 2024 > 2008, 2009, 2010, 2013, 2015(or 2006)

Kucherovs

2017, 2018, 2019, 2022, 2024 > 2008, 2009, 2010, 2013, and 2015 (or 2006)

Kucherov and Mackinnon have more years outsude those top 5 at that level

Mackinnon has 2019 and 2022

Kucherov has 2020, and 2023

OVs best seasons came in worse competition environment vs Mackinnon, Kucherov, and Draisaitl all competing against each other for 2nd to 4th best player in the league after the 2nd to 4th best player ever Mcdavid

You put 19-25 year old OV here, hes getting destroyed by Mcdavid just like they usually are. Level of competition is just a lot higher.

Ovechkin's game was never about points. It was / maybe still is about scoring goals.

Kinda like your boy Auston Matthews. Are you going to do another analysis comparing AM34's season by season PPG to his superstar peer group and try to convince everyone that he's not the same tier as Leon or Kucherov?

 

[GreatGonzo]

Not sure why you quoted me? I was referring to someone saying Crosby's not actually generational and another poster acting like Fleury's goaltending was a big reason for ALL THREE Cups. Both are dumb takes.

Please provide evidence of both of these occurrences. Other wise, it’s just a strawman your creating just to have something to complain about.

 

[Video Nasty]

It's odd that you call this list of players 'all-time low' when they're vastly superior players than the competition that McDavid has today.

 

[Video Nasty]

Not sure why you quoted me? I was referring to someone saying Crosby's not actually generational and another poster acting like Fleury's goaltending was a big reason for ALL THREE Cups. Both are dumb takes.

No one said he wasn’t generational. But he clearly didn’t pan out to be “true” generational like The Big Five are.

 

[rumrokh]

This thread has jumped the shark with some of these comments. In the span of 19 pages it's now become Crosby isn't even a generational player and somehow Fleury's a big reason the Pens won 3 Cups despite him not even being the starter in 2 of those runs.

It jumped the shark from the first post with those poll options. There's no way this was going to be a productive conversation.

 

[Offtheboard412]

He’s not as efficient in garbage areas around the net, as deadly from behind the net, as ferocious along board battles, and his backhand shot isn’t as consistent as Crosby’s.

I don't think he sees the ice as quickly or as well either. So many times there will be a scramble with a loose puck and chaos all around and then you'll see Crosby grab the puck and send a pass to an open man before anyone has any idea what just happened.

 

[ThisIsMyAlibi]

Crosby wins game seven

 

[BraveCanadian]

Crosby wins game seven

Not when he misses the playoffs

 

[tabness]

It's odd that you call this list of players 'all-time low' when they're vastly superior players than the competition that McDavid has today.

Come on man, in the early 2010s it was boring as hell, like Ovechkin was off dealing with adjustments with coaching changes and all that and he's never been the same player as his young years, Stamkos who was the other big scorer guy outside of Pittsburgh got that terrible leg injury in 2014. The other players just by name recognition don't come close to the ones today. They don't even compare to many of their contemporaries beyond the points guys like Datsyuk and Toews (totally agree that it ain't all about points)

The NHL even tries to market today as a new golden era and the era they look back to is... the nineties, not the 2010s lol




I guess you can certainly argue that part of the reason for these new crop of players doing what they do and having the stats they have is the artificial boosting of skill nowadays achieved through softening the game, but it was already pretty damn soft in the 2010s so not sure how far that gets you lol