Is Connor Mcdavid a "tier above" Sidney Crosby as a player?

[lawrence]

Player A's best season is 120 points
Player B. surpassed 120 points on 3 occasions. Player B is not even not even 28 yet.

Player A Points per game career is 1.25 give or take 102 points average per 82 games. (Granted player A was drafted 10 years earlier)
Player B points per game career is 1.52 give or take 125 points average per 82 games.

If we want lets do the first 9 years of player A to be fair, if we think, well Player A played
Player A first 9 seasons 550 games. 769 points. 1.39 points per game.
1.39 points per game per 82 games is 113 points

Player A first 9 seasos average 1.39 points per game it will be 113 points per every 82 games.
Player B first 9 seasons average 1.52 points per game.

its just absolutely insane how good these guys are.

they are in the same tier. Anyone that says otherwise wise well I disagree with you. I do feel Crosby is "stronger" on the puck though, but McDavid North South game, with this speed forcing you to back up making things open and generating a play is much more difficult to shut down. Crosby well. Crosby is a freak of nature for himself even at age 37. He's going to do heavy damage.

personally I feel Mcdavid is a more difficult player to contain than Crosby. Tier above? At this point I don't know if there is "another tier" but numbers clearly show mcdavid is currently ahead of Crosby.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Player A's best season is 120 points
Player B. surpassed 120 points on 3 occasions. Player B is not even not even 28 yet.

Player A Points per game career is 1.25 give or take 102 points average per 82 games. (Granted player A was drafted 10 years earlier)
Player B points per game career is 1.52 give or take 125 points average per 82 games.

If we want lets do the first 9 years of player A to be fair, if we think, well Player A played
Player A first 9 seasons 550 games. 769 points. 1.39 points per game.
1.39 points per game per 82 games is 113 points

Player A first 9 seasos average 1.39 points per game it will be 113 points per every 82 games.
Player B first 9 seasons average 1.52 points per game.

its just absolutely insane how good these guys are.

they are in the same tier. Anyone that says otherwise wise well I disagree with you. I do feel Crosby is "stronger" on the puck though, but McDavid North South game, with this speed forcing you to back up making things open and generating a play is much more difficult to shut down. Crosby well. Crosby is a freak of nature for himself even at age 37. He's going to do heavy damage.

personally I feel Mcdavid is a more difficult player to contain than Crosby. Tier above? At this point I don't know if there is "another tier" but numbers clearly show mcdavid is currently ahead of Crosby.

Now take league scoring levels into account..

 

[lawrence]

Now take league scoring levels into account..

I don't think he's a tier above though. This is no disrespect to Crosby. McDavid has weaker support from the start. from day 1, Ziggy Palfy, John Leclair, Mark Recchi, Sergei Gonchar was added to the Penguins in the summer of 2005 to provide the Penguins with additional depth and to support Sid, granted that year it didn't work out, but the penguins became an instant contender almost right away, making the playoffs one year, making the finals the following and winning the cup after. Mcdavid is always known to have a weak roster, and a lot of us often made fun of the oilers for that. Crosby is my favourite player since he came into the league. Mcdavid needs to be respected for his talent. I am confident we can win the gold medal in 2026 if they are both on team Canada.

 

[Bertuzzzi44]

3 Stanley Cups, Olympic Golds, Golden Goal, Clutch, top point producer for over a decade with revolving wingers consisting of Kunitz/Guerin/Dupois/Sheary/Armstrong/Recchi/Hornqvist/Malone etc. who all had career years playing with 87.



2014-2015 scoring leaders:

Benn 87
Tavares 86
Crosby 84
Ovechkin 81

Nowadays we have 20 players with over 100 points (Crosby had 94 this year).

Points don’t equal dominance, some eras are higher scoring than others. Crosby dominated and was more well rounded, he simply won when it mattered.

 

[Regal]

But I already said exactly that:

“IMO McDavid is better than Crosby in the same sense (but to a much lesser degree) that Gretzky was better than Messier”



And I already said that too:

“instead of a more toolsy player who “only” peaks out at a Hart level”


Perhaps the point seems odd because people are only reading fragments of it?

I get that but it still feels like significantly underrating Crosby’s offense and overrating the difference between them. Crosby was also the superlative offensive talent in the league at his best

 

[LordBacon]

Connor Brown beats those two easily but y'all aint ready for that fact.

 

[KaseMeOutside]

Talent wise yes, McDavid and Jagr are probably the most talented players picked since Lemieux and Gretzky


However I find McDavid and Peak Crosby have pretty similar impact on games, you do need to account for the significant increase in scoring recently and compare them vs their peers.


Will McDavid end up having a better statistical career? As long as he avoids serious injuries 100% but until he has a championship on that resume that's going to be the one hole people poke at.

Unfortunately for Crosby, injuries really robbed him of stacking on top of the resume even if you think he's better or they are equals, but he has 3 cups and I think mcdavid would kill for just 1

 

[ijuka]

better at scoring points maybe? Certainly not better at the other aspects of the game

Such as what?

 

[Video Nasty]

Now take league scoring levels into account..

Through their first 9 seasons, scoring is 5.3% higher for McDavid, while PPO have been lower in all 9 seasons.

McDavid beat Crosby’s career high by 33 points, or 27.5%, in a league with 7.8% higher scoring, 34.9% fewer PP, and 60.5% lower PPO. He dummied Crosby to an even greater degree with his 2020-2021 effort.

If you want to confine it to individual seasons being 3.11 to 3.18 over the past three seasons, and compare them with the three lowest of Crosby’s 9 seasons that he could stay on the ice for, 2.84, scoring is 10.6% higher for McDavid. McDavid outscored him by 28.8%, while being older in two of the three seasons. This is also ignoring the higher PPO Crosby was afforded.

I could get real ugly about it and keep going, but what’s the point?

 

[CashMash]

Voted yes, but saying they're a different "tier" is somewhat subjective, so it could have been, "no, but McD is better" too.

The way I look at it is--if we would say McDavid is the modern-day equivalent to Gretzky or Lemieux--Crosby is like a Jagr or Yzerman-type player. Both are very rare specimen among athletes, and any team would love to have one of them. I say modern-day equivalent because I don't think McDavid is quite there, though it's also difficult to say because teams have more depth now and there may be diminishing returns for the human body in terms of diet and technology, so the gap between a depth player and a franchise type may not be as big as it once was... Still, McDavid did get beat by players who are definitely not in his tier (Kuch and Drai), whereas prime, uninjured Gretz and Lemieux only lost out to each other.

Still, even taking the rising scoring into account, McDavid has Crosby beat offensively. Crosby's defensive acumen is overrated and came as a result of his scoring declining. As far as leadership goes, I cannot speculate on that.

Hmm... If Crosby is Yzerman, who are Ovechkin, Malkin, Draisaitl and Kucherov? Though I have Crosby rated higher than the latter three, Ovi at his best was a thing to behold, and I think a more consistent Malkin would have them both beat. Kucherov and Draisaitl both have Rosses in the McDavid era.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

3 Stanley Cups, Olympic Golds, Golden Goal, Clutch, top point producer for over a decade with revolving wingers consisting of Kunitz/Guerin/Dupois/Sheary/Armstrong/Recchi/Hornqvist/Malone etc. who all had career years playing with 87.



2014-2015 scoring leaders:

Benn 87
Tavares 86
Crosby 84
Ovechkin 81

Nowadays we have 20 players with over 100 points (Crosby had 94 this year).

Points don’t equal dominance, some eras are higher scoring than others. Crosby dominated and was more well rounded, he simply won when it mattered.

Points aren't even the argument though , everybody knows scoring is up... Look at personal hardware and scoring vs peers in the league.

Not to mention the playoff scoring lol he's on a level with Mario and Wayne in the playoffs

 

[Video Nasty]

Crosby rarely ever had the phrase “since Gretzky and Lemieux” attached to his accomplishments. McDavid has been doing this on a season to season basis for awhile now. That’s the difference between the two players and it’s pure pigheadedness to argue against it at this point.

 

[Bertuzzzi44]

McDavid is possibly better but a tier above GTFOH.

Crosby received criticism for not getting it done in the finals in 2008 and came back with a vengeance in 2009, hopefully Mcdavid can do the same and get his team past the finish line after a disappointing game 6 & 7. Let me know when 97 has 1 Cup and we can start the comparison.

 

[norrisnick]

McDavid is possibly better but a tier above GTFOH.

Crosby received criticism for not getting it done in the finals in 2008 and came back with a vengeance in 2009, hopefully Mcdavid can do the same and get his team past the finish line after a disappointing game 6 & 7. Let me know when 97 has 1 Cup and we can start the comparison.

Speaking of things that should GTFOH... As mediocre as you believe McDavid's end of the '24 Final to be... It was still better than Crosby's '09 Final.

 

[Breakfast of Champs]

Crosby rarely ever had the phrase “since Gretzky and Lemieux” attached to his accomplishments. McDavid has been doing this on a season to season basis for awhile now. That’s the difference between the two players and it’s pure pigheadedness to argue against it at this point.

That might be due to injuries though. He still did some pretty impressive things, too. First back to back CS since Lemieux, youngest to 100 points, youngest to 200 pts, youngest scoring champion, etc. He also is one of only 3 players along with Gretzky and Lemieux to have 2+of the hart/ross/rocket/CS/cup. So he definitely does have some "since Gretzky and lemieux on his resume.

I really think peak Crosby was likely 2010-2015 Crosby and he missed out on 2 or 3 MVP + art ross seasons during his injured years. So it depends if you think staying healthy classifies McDavid in another tier because he will compile more awards/stats than Crosby then so be it, but in terms of actual level of play I don't think the gap is that huge. Crosby also played in a lower scoring era in his prime than McDavid has, which will make the raw totals appear less impressive.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Mcdavid had a career threatening injury at the hands of Giordano and was fixed by some sort of nasa supercomputer

I think being able to stay healthy as a targeted superstar is a skill in itself

 

[Romang67]

Speaking of things that should GTFOH... As mediocre as you believe McDavid's end of the '24 Final to be... It was still better than Crosby's '09 Final.

0 points and -3 in games 5-7 doesn't do it for you?

 

[Offtheboard412]

Mcdavid had a career threatening injury at the hands of Giordano and was fixed by some sort of nasa supercomputer

I think being able to stay healthy as a targeted superstar is a skill in itself

The catch with Crosby though wasn't just that he got injured. It was that the medical staff missed a soft tissue injury in his neck and that is what caused it to become such a long term problem for him. He's had other concussions since then and he only missed 6 games for the first one (2016/2017 regular season) and 1 game for the second one (2016/2017 playoffs).

 

[66-30-33]

Mcdavid is better but not a tier better. Despite what some think, McDavid is a playoff beast and proved it by being 3rd all time. Crosby is also a beast, he is the all time active points leader in the playoffs, doesn’t happen unless you’re a beast.

 

[Gurglesons]

McDavid the better individual contributor.

Crosby the better at utilizing his skills to win.

 

[Rythashocka]

If I had a game 7 tomorrow for the cup and both guys in their prime I'm taking Crosby. It's no disrespect to McDavid.

 

[hamzarocks]

Its Like Comparing Kobe (RIP) to Lebron

Lebron is less likable but hes clear cut top 2 in his sport and a tier above Kobe for peak/prime/career

Mcdavid being top 2 is tougher as NBA doesnt have a Lemieux or Orr or a howe even but hes going to be top 5 and same tier as those guys at the worse

Mcdavid has better peak/prime and now playoff run than Crosby

This isnt disrespect to Crosby either. Hes 6th to 10th best all time. A legend basically only very few teams can say they have a better player than

Mcdavid and the Oilers are one of those teams

 

[nbwingsfan]

How do you compare the two Canadian superstars?

I have McDavid right there with Lemieux/Orr and above Howe (assuming he continues a great career).

Crosby was never, at any point, on that level of player.

And that’s not a shot at Crosby, he’s top 10 of all time, but there’s a noticeable gap between the big 4 (now top 5) and the rest

 

[hamzarocks]

If I had a game 7 tomorrow for the cup and both guys in their prime I'm taking Crosby. It's no disrespect to McDavid.

Where was Crosby in 2009 game 7?

Where was he in 2008 game 6?

Where was he in 2017 game 6?

Mcdavid for a 1 game sample over anyone ever in the history of hockey

Mcdavid rested and needing to play 1 game is more dangerous than 99, 66, 4, 9

 

[Mogo]

If you want your team to win. Sid