Is Bedard more McDavid or Drai/Matthews/Mackinnon level talent?

[daver]

It should be established that "McDavid level" is similar to Crosby level and Jagr level.

 

[Barrie22]

Goalies, Defenders, and Coaches will figure out his weird release at one point... They will adjust.

Like they adjusted to Ovechkin who has scored 80% of his 700 goals from the exact same spot?

 

[Kranix]

The point was that brain power and hockey IQ are two different things. Maybe McDavid can process things faster but that doesn't necessarily mean the end result is better.

Given the narrative that Bedard is too small and too slow in comparison to McDavid, how did he better McDavid, and every other CHL prospect in the last 35 years save for Mario and Crosby, if he doesn't have some superior skills/physical tools?

It should be established that "McDavid level" is similar to Crosby level and Jagr level.

You've drifted from Bedard being the best goalscorer prospect since Mario, to being the best prospect since Sid/Mario. What about Pierre Turgeon?

 

[Sweetpotato]

Hard to say but I think he'll be more of a Draisaitl than Matthews or MacKinnon. He won't just be a franchise player, he'll be consistently in the running for the rocket AND Ross but he won't be firing off 150pt seasons like McDavid.

 

[daver]

You've drifted from Bedard being the best goalscorer prospect since Mario, to being the best prospect since Sid/Mario. What about Pierre Turgeon?

What about him? Was he as statistically dominant as Bedard/Crosby/McDavid?

Hmmm, 3rd in goals and 5th in points in his draft year:

QMJHL 1986-87 League Leaders at hockeydb.com

The top 10 players for goals, assists, points, and PIM for the 1986-87 season of the QMJHL

www.hockeydb.com

 

[OKR]

Bedard got some high stakes, i’m pretty sure that it he doesn’t dominate NHL by his second season daver is gonna jump off a building.

 

[Barrie22]

Jack Hughes had generational production too. Not generational. Alexis Lafreniere had generational production too. Certainly not generational. I can keep going, but I think you get the point.

Alexis Lafreniere absolutely did not put up generational production.

Jack Hughes production was more along the lines of Will Smith from this past draft, nobody was calling him generational.

Bedard put up the best WHL season since the 80's. He finished 36 points above the next closest point total in 11 less games. Bedard including playoffs, world Jr's, and regular season put up 90 goals, 96 assists and 186 points in 71 games.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Bedard got some high stakes, i’m pretty sure that it he doesn’t dominate NHL by his second season daver is gonna jump off a building.

It's amusing seeing people only use stat lines as if junior stats are the be all, end all.

 

[Hanji]

Who the hell knows? He hasn't played a single professional game yet.

 

[Barrie22]

I've been on this website for many years and follow the prospect discussions. I can tell you this is very much not correct.

These discussions were had about Eichel, Matthews, Laine, Patrick, Dahlin, Hughes, Lafreniere, and Wright.

Some were longer and more serious than other discussions, but it's not been 1 or 2 players discussed in this light. It's been a lot. It's very year or two, and some years multiple.

So you take the advice of random hockey fans over the experts ? As none of the players you mentioned has ever been hyped as the next big thing. Being talked about as being the number 1 pick is not being hyped as generational.

Nobody with any resemblance of hockey knowledge has placed the generational tag on any of those players, maybe franchise players but that is still different then generational.

Crosby, Ovechkin are generational players, kane, Toews are franchise players. McDavid is a generational player, MacKinnon, Mathews are franchise players.

 

[Happyhary9]

It's amusing seeing people only use stat lines as if junior stats are the be all, end all.

Haha okay. So just ignore what he has actually accomplished as a hockey player. It is not like some are saying well he put up some decent numbers. The kid just put up the best numbers this century in the CHL. Then followed that up with the best numbers by a 17 year old in the history of the WJC-20.

 

[Faceboner]

Bedard has dominated every tourney and league he has been in his most disappointing season where put up only 100 pts and 51 goals in his d-1 season not to mention the pats were atrocious without him

 

[Jets4Life]

Kane's peak season is closer than you think when you compare their respective dominance over their peers.

No it is not. In fact, their respective peaks are not even remotely close. McDavid is better than Kane, hands down.

That's like comparing peak Gretzky to peak Yzerman.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Haha okay. So just ignore what he has actually accomplished as a hockey player. It is not like some are saying well he put up some decent numbers. The kid just put up the best numbers this century in the CHL. Then followed that up with the best numbers by a 17 year old in the history of the WJC-20.

Not ignore. But also don't act like junior production always translates to the same level of NHL success, even elite junior production. People are getting ahead of themselves with Bedard. He's probably going to be great, but its not a guarantee that he is the next superstar. He's not a guaranteed McDavid/Matthews/Draisaitl level player. Remember, Tavares had this kind of buzz too, and while he's had a great career, and was arguably top 5 in the world for a couple of years, I don't think you can argue that he was Matthews/Draisaitl/Kucherov level at his peak, and that's okay, he was still great. And if Bedard ends up having a Tavares like career, that's fine too. All I'm suggesting, is that throwing these type of expectations is really premature.

 

[daver]

No it is not. In fact, their respective peaks are not even remotely close. McDavid is better than Kane, hands down.

That's like comparing peak Gretzky to peak Yzerman.

That's a pretty bold claim you are making. My respect for having the guts to go out on a limb like this.

 

[Happyhary9]

Not ignore. But also don't act like junior production always translates to the same level of NHL success, even elite junior production. People are getting ahead of themselves with Bedard. He's probably going to be great, but its not a guarantee that he is the next superstar. He's not a guaranteed McDavid/Matthews/Draisaitl level player. Remember, Tavares had this kind of buzz too, and while he's had a great career, and was arguably top 5 in the world for a couple of years, I don't think you can argue that he was Matthews/Draisaitl/Kucherov level at his peak, and that's okay, he was still great. And if Bedard ends up having a Tavares like career, that's fine too. All I'm suggesting, is that throwing these type of expectations is really premature.

Yes people know that nothing is guaranteed. But again Bedard's numbers are crazy good and people are excited about that. Tavares buzz was long gone by the time the draft rolled around, he just never really progressed much from 16 to 18 he was a physically mature kid at a young age and the skating never really improved. His draft year wasn't close to Bedard's. Tavares only scored at .2 ppg over his peers in his draft year. Bedard was at .79 ppg over his peers. That is a massive difference. So I will say it again yes nothing is guaranteed, but from a statistical stand point Bedard just had the best 17yo/ draft season this century.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Not ignore. But also don't act like junior production always translates to the same level of NHL success, even elite junior production. People are getting ahead of themselves with Bedard. He's probably going to be great, but its not a guarantee that he is the next superstar. He's not a guaranteed McDavid/Matthews/Draisaitl level player. Remember, Tavares had this kind of buzz too, and while he's had a great career, and was arguably top 5 in the world for a couple of years, I don't think you can argue that he was Matthews/Draisaitl/Kucherov level at his peak, and that's okay, he was still great. And if Bedard ends up having a Tavares like career, that's fine too. All I'm suggesting, is that throwing these type of expectations is really premature.

A couple of differences between Tavares and Bedard.

1-Tavares kind of regressed (or at least stagnated) after his 16 year old season. Bedard has continued to improve each year. Projecting their careers going forward it was easier to see that with Tavares, what you saw at age 18 when he was drafted was pretty much what you'd see at age 24 and beyond because he didn't seem to be improving. Whereas with Bedard, the trend is he keeps on improving as he gets older. So aged 20 Bedard will be better than age 18 Bedard, etc. based on his trajectory.

2-Tavares didn't really have any elite ability other than his ability to be in the right spot. He was a plodding skater, his shot was nothing special, and he wasn't an elite passer. Bedard, on the other hand, has an absolutely elite shot. That alone gives Bedard an advantage over his peers that Tavares never possessed.

 

[daver]

Not ignore. But also don't act like junior production always translates to the same level of NHL success, even elite junior production. People are getting ahead of themselves with Bedard. He's probably going to be great, but its not a guarantee that he is the next superstar. He's not a guaranteed McDavid/Matthews/Draisaitl level player. Remember, Tavares had this kind of buzz too, and while he's had a great career, and was arguably top 5 in the world for a couple of years, I don't think you can argue that he was Matthews/Draisaitl/Kucherov level at his peak, and that's okay, he was still great. And if Bedard ends up having a Tavares like career, that's fine too. All I'm suggesting, is that throwing these type of expectations is really premature.

Why not? That's is exactly what happened with Bedard's CHL comparables: Wayne, Mario, Lindros, Crosby and McDavid.

All-time great production before age 18 = GOAT/Generational production in the NHL.

 

[GeeoffBrown]

Man, if the second group is considered a disappointment, then it is really exciting to have Bedard in the NHL. Can't wait for his career to play out

 

[ManofSteel55]

Why not? That's is exactly what happened with Bedard's CHL comparables: Wayne, Mario, Lindros, Crosby and McDavid.

All-time great production before age 18 = GOAT/Generational production in the NHL.

Kind of a small sample size to use the "comparables" arguement. Especially when only one of those players is a modern player, and all of them played in different leagues than Bedard did. But use those guys as your guarantee if you want. Knock yourself out. The sane ones in the group will still wait until he plays an NHL game before annointing him a generational talent.

Yes people know that nothing is guaranteed. But again Bedard's numbers are crazy good and people are excited about that. Tavares buzz was long gone by the time the draft rolled around, he just never really progressed much from 16 to 18 he was a physically mature kid at a young age and the skating never really improved. His draft year wasn't close to Bedard's. Tavares only scored at .2 ppg over his peers in his draft year. Bedard was at .79 ppg over his peers. That is a massive difference. So I will say it again yes nothing is guaranteed, but from a statistical stand point Bedard just had the best 17yo/ draft season this century.

To suggest the Tavares buzz was "gone" by the time of the draft is incredibly hyperbolic, and I think you know that.

Some people are acting like they don't know the bolded. That's all I'm saying.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

He is the same build as Crosby.

2 Inches shorter and not nearly the skater Crosby is

 

[Jets4Life]

That's a pretty bold claim you are making. My respect for having the guts to go out on a limb like this.

Stop. you are just embarrassing yourself at this point. The consensus is unanimous that McDavid is better than Kane. Only Kane fanboys would argue otherwise.

2 Inches shorter and not nearly the skater Crosby is

Bedard was one inch smaller than Crosby (as of 2022), and Bedard can still technically grow. Crosby is 5'11/200. Bedard is 185, and will probably be of similar weight and height by the time he is in his prime.

 

[DuklaNation]

McDavid's skating separates him from Bedard, its on a completely different level. His goal scoring prowess has been improved so although Bedard has a better shot, its not enough to close the gap.

 

[GeeoffBrown]

I feel like Bedard gets shorter every one of these threads I read LOL

He's gonna come into the league at 5'6" and Scott Stevens will come out of retirement and f***in' kill him at centre ice on his first shift

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Why not? That's is exactly what happened with Bedard's CHL comparables: Wayne, Mario, Lindros, Crosby and McDavid.

All-time great production before age 18 = GOAT/Generational production in the NHL.

You keep forgetting Lafontaine and Kane. Their draft years in the CHL were comparable to Bedard's.

I'd probably rank the best CHL draft years as follows:

Lemieux
Crosby
Lafontaine
Bedard
McDavid
Kane
Lindros

That's some great company for Bedard. Of that group, I think he's most similar to Kane and Lafontaine in terms of style, and would expect him to have a comparable peak relative to his peers.