Is Alex Pietrangelo a hall of famer?

[banks]

Doughty was awarded a lifetime-Norris. His peaks were clearly higher than Pietrangelo's, but he's had some pretty sub-par seasons and earned the worst-contract in the NHL honor for a few seasons.
Pietrangelo has struggled for maybe a half a season twice over the course of his entire career. His consistency is remarkable and greater than DD's, and AP has produced at a higher offensive rate over the course of their careers as well. They're both smart defensively and Team Canada regulars. Same age, same impact on two Cup-champion teams. I'd venture to guess that they're held in equal regard around the league. I'm guessing Doughty will have the edge in the first 10-years of their careers and Pietrangelo the edge over the second 10 years. Both for sure HOF'ers.

Peaks matter. Peaks are why players get more attention. A players' peak is when they'll become more "famous". And we are talking about the Hall of Fame.

Consistency is great. But it's not as important when talking about a HOF career. You need personal accomplishments. You need a moment in time when you're the best. You need trophies. What would you put in the display for a very good player with no peak?

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

His biggest obstacle is playing for the Blues and Golden Knights rather than a Canadian or East Coast O6 team.

 

[EverTheCynic]

Hall of very good. No individual hardware, good/great but not elite production at any point.

It's a rudimentary comparison but if winning two Cups was enough to make the playoffs there would be dozens of bottom six guys in the Hall (it's rudimentary because Pietrangelo is obviously not a "bottom six guy", but it still illustrates the point that having two Cups doesn't mean everything)

How does winning 2 cups as the #1D, one as captain, not mean anything?

But a trophy voted on by disc jockeys and beat writers who never played hockey and don't understand hockey does?

How does that make even a tiny amount of sense?

 

[AKL]

How does winning 2 cups as the #1D, one as captain, not mean anything?

But a trophy voted on by disc jockeys and beat writers who never played hockey and don't understand hockey does?

How does that make even a tiny amount of sense?

Did I say it doesn't mean anything or did I say it doesn't mean everything?

Of course if you substitute my words for your own words, you can ram through any point you're trying to make.

 

[MXD]

He's running very straight into Kristopher Letang.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

How does winning 2 cups as the #1D, one as captain, not mean anything?

But a trophy voted on by disc jockeys and beat writers who never played hockey and don't understand hockey does?

How does that make even a tiny amount of sense?

Doesn't make him a HOF'er, especially when he wasnt close to being the most important guy in either win

 

[EastVillageBlues]

Doesn't make him a HOF'er, especially when he wasnt close to being the most important guy in either win

Right,

ROR and Binnington were the two most important players head and shoulders above, for the 2019 run.

Tarasenko and Schwartz were also arguably just as, or more important than Petro was. He wasn't even on the top pairing, which was the shutdown pairing with JayBo and Parayko.

 

[acor]

VERY underrated defenseman, never really the best, but always among elite... Then said, if it was for me, never being the best (or even close to the best) should disqualify you from such honors...

 

[Machinehead]

Kevin Lowe:
4x Top 10 in Norris voting (5, 7, 8, 10)
0x year end All-Star teams
6x Stanley Cups

Alex Pietrangelo
4x Top 10 in Norris voting (4, 4, 5, 9)
3x year end Second All-Star teams
2x Stanley Cups

I absolutely don't think Kevin Lowe should be in the hall of fame, but he is. Pietrangelo's had the better career imo, so I'd say yes.

I hear what you're saying but comparing candidates to guys who shouldn't be in opens a very dangerous rabbit hole.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

Yes.

Sorry to say, we overvalued individual achievement too much.

He captained Blues to their first title and scores the cup winning goal. Plus, during his time, Blues was a perennial cup contender.

He is the most deserved HOF on that 2019 Blues team alongside ROR. If the Hall did not induct anyone from that champion team, it will be the worst roster by personnel considering even 1938 Blackhawks has Earl Seibert.

And, he lead the defence for this VGK team as number 1 d-men. So, yeah - he is a future HOF.

P. S: I still thinks Rafalski should be in.

I voted yes.

I think being a 1. On 2 different Cup teams means something.

I do think it will take some time.
Has anyone ever yet in his career complained about a Petro year?

I have never seen someone complain yet.

I can't say the same for Doughty or Karlsson who are locks for the HOF.

 

[rogking65]

Yes.

Sorry to say, we overvalued individual achievement too much.

He captained Blues to their first title and scores the cup winning goal. Plus, during his time, Blues was a perennial cup contender.

He is the most deserved HOF on that 2019 Blues team alongside ROR. If the Hall did not induct anyone from that champion team, it will be the worst roster by personnel considering even 1938 Blackhawks has Earl Seibert.

And, he lead the defence for this VGK team as number 1 d-men. So, yeah - he is a future HOF.

P. S: I still thinks Rafalski should be in.

imagine that...individual achievements being used to value an individual. Who would have thought?

 

[Mohar Ikram]

imagine that...individual achievements being used to value an individual. Who would have thought?

"Overvalued"

That's the key word. Ice Hockey is a team's game. Anyone who can bring the ultimate prize to the team is worth more than tonnes of individual achievement. Individual achievement will only matter if he manages to get the team's ultimate goal first (or at least compete for it perennially).

Imagine that there are massive amounts of people that think Corey Perry does not deserve HOF locks after he got Triple Gold Crown, a Hart, a Rocket and also scores a crucial goal in Olympics final. Such blasphemy.

Same as Pietro. He is definitely one of the hot candidate for HOF if we actually carefully dissect his career. He is one of the best d-men in last 15 years. If Norris is the measurement, why is someone like Shea Weber a lock whilst Pietrangelo is not (Both should be deserving candidates without questions)?

 

[Thallis]

Doesn't make him a HOF'er, especially when he wasnt close to being the most important guy in either win

He was absolutely the most important player in the 2019 win. 2nd on the Blues in points, 1st in minutes, dominated 5v5, and the gwg in the final.

Right,

ROR and Binnington were the two most important players head and shoulders above, for the 2019 run.

Tarasenko and Schwartz were also arguably just as, or more important than Petro was. He wasn't even on the top pairing, which was the shutdown pairing with JayBo and Parayko.

This is completely moronic on every level. A defenseman who averages 25 minutes a night and leads your blue line in points is the #1 & top pairing defenseman

 

[EastVillageBlues]

He was absolutely the most important player in the 2019 win. 2nd on the Blues in points, 1st in minutes, dominated 5v5, and the gwg in the final.


This is completely moronic on every level. A defenseman who averages 25 minutes a night and leads your blue line in points is the #1 & top pairing defenseman

Except that the tough assignments traditionally associated with top pairing D men would fall to JayBo and Parayko. And if you consider the likes of Gunnarson one year away from retirement, or Dunn in his sophomore year would qualify as top pairing D-men, or a couple of 5-7th D-men that played with Petro that year.

There isn't anything moronic, except the continued insistence, despite all evidence, that your favorite hobbyhorse is the reason that the Blues won the cup.

 

[um]

#1 defensemen on 2 different cup winning teams is a significant accomplishment. Both times the franchise’s first cup.

I’d say that’s more impressive than a Norris nomination or two. I’ll say yes.

 

[JackSlater]

He'll get in after a few years of eligibility. In recent years we've seen Lowe, Zubov, Housley, and Howe all go in. Let's not pretend that an individual trophy is a necessity to make the HHOF. The novelty of being the number one defenceman on two separate Stanley Cup winners on different franchises, and captain of the first, will be enough to get him in.

 

[Regal]

Except that the tough assignments traditionally associated with top pairing D men would fall to JayBo and Parayko. And if you consider the likes of Gunnarson one year away from retirement, or Dunn in his sophomore year would qualify as top pairing D-men, or a couple of 5-7th D-men that played with Petro that year.

There isn't anything moronic, except the continued insistence, despite all evidence, that your favorite hobbyhorse is the reason that the Blues won the cup.

So was Hedman not the #1 defenseman for the Lightning for their cups? He regularly played with poor partners and didn’t take the top matchups.

I mean the matchup part is fair criticism but I’m not sure how his partner is. Being able to carry a weaker partner is part of what you want from a number 1, so you can create better depth.

 

[bobbyking]

if Kris letang is borderline by some people then what shot does pietrangelo have

 

[AKL]

"Overvalued"

That's the key word. Ice Hockey is a team's game. Anyone who can bring the ultimate prize to the team is worth more than tonnes of individual achievement. Individual achievement will only matter if he manages to get the team's ultimate goal first (or at least compete for it perennially).

Imagine that there are massive amounts of people that think Corey Perry does not deserve HOF locks after he got Triple Gold Crown, a Hart, a Rocket and also scores a crucial goal in Olympics final. Such blasphemy.

Same as Pietro. He is definitely one of the hot candidate for HOF if we actually carefully dissect his career. He is one of the best d-men in last 15 years. If Norris is the measurement, why is someone like Shea Weber a lock whilst Pietrangelo is not (Both should be deserving candidates without questions)?

The Hall of Fame isn't a team reward though. It's an individual honor.

 

[Foppberg]

Lol no

 

[Regal]

The Hall of Fame isn't a team reward though. It's an individual honor.

Role on winners has always been a large part of it though

 

[Mohar Ikram]

The Hall of Fame isn't a team reward though. It's an individual honor.

It is and a winner on the competition will helps more than a non-winner.

Furthermore, a winner will make the HOF sweeter and more remembered than a non-winner. Sometimes, we will put the winner on higher status than non-winner.

People will put Harvey and Johnson on their dream cup winning team, but will people put Quackenbush and Gadsby even though those 4 are comparables? I don't think so.

if Kris letang is borderline by some people then what shot does Pietrangelo have

If Letang is borderline.... Let's stop putting d-men on HOF altogether. That is a crazy evaluation.

 

[Davimir Tarablad]

If he never plays another hockey game, I'd say he'd just miss the cut. But, he's more than likely going to rack up enough stats through the rest of his career to get in.

 

[Thallis]

Except that the tough assignments traditionally associated with top pairing D men would fall to JayBo and Parayko. And if you consider the likes of Gunnarson one year away from retirement, or Dunn in his sophomore year would qualify as top pairing D-men, or a couple of 5-7th D-men that played with Petro that year.

There isn't anything moronic, except the continued insistence, despite all evidence, that your favorite hobbyhorse is the reason that the Blues won the cup.

Tell me you don't know how defense works without saying you don't know how defense works. Is Erik Karlsson not a top pairing defenseman? How about Burns, Josi, Hedman, Makar, or Duncan Kieth when he was winning the Norris? This is an incredibly common deployment strategy.

 

[sr edler]

People on this board are way too obsessed with Norris "nominations", as if Bryan McCabe's or Dougie Hamilton's peak levels were on par with say Sergei Zubov's, when in reality none of these players were even the best overall D on their own teams (in McCabe's case Tomas Kaberle was better, and Jaccob Slavin was obviously better than Hamilton in Carolina).

These flashy offensive Ds with big clappers/slappers often gets a bit overrated in Norris voting. P.K. Subban is another such case, though I would still prefer Subban in front of McCabe and D. Hamilton. Also Mike Green.

St. Louis falling off to such a degree after Pietrangelo left should probably tell us something.