Interim Jets coach Dave Lowry (December 2021, not now)

[ulf]

Complete new coaching staff is #1 and easiest route.
Correcting locker room and leadership is #2 and subject to conjecture.
Admitting that 2 pro coaches gave our bottom 3 guys limited ice time says way more about the lack of depth vs the top 6. Not the right hockey players to complement the team.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Good to see that after being on Maurice's ass for a a couple of years @WPGChief is finally coming around the good things Maurice brought to the table.

This change has gone very similar to what I expected, I always felt (and said so on this board) that there might be some amount of "be careful what you wish for" if Maurice was fired.

I am a broken record on this but if you compare results of teams coached by Maurice where he was either fired partway or he joined partway during the season (which to some extent controls for roster turnover)- those teams always did better with Maurice (to varying degrees) than they did without him going all the way back to his Carolina days. So at the very least he is/was an average-slightly above average coach in the NHL and moving on from him was always a risk as there are lots of below average NHL coaches out there. Even moreso a risk for the Jets as due to how they operate any permanent coach they hire is gonna get a reasonable runway regardless of the results.

It isn't be careful what you wish for in wanting Maurice out. It is that Lowry is no better. In fact, not much different at all. But Lowry is not the replacement for Maurice. He is a placeholder.

This was an opportunity for him but he has dropped the ball.

 

[Ducky10]

Good to see that after being on Maurice's ass for a a couple of years @WPGChief is finally coming around the good things Maurice brought to the table.

This change has gone very similar to what I expected, I always felt (and said so on this board) that there might be some amount of "be careful what you wish for" if Maurice was fired.

I am a broken record on this but if you compare results of teams coached by Maurice where he was either fired partway or he joined partway during the season (which to some extent controls for roster turnover)- those teams always did better with Maurice (to varying degrees) than they did without him going all the way back to his Carolina days. So at the very least he is/was an average-slightly above average coach in the NHL and moving on from him was always a risk as there are lots of below average NHL coaches out there. Even moreso a risk for the Jets as due to how they operate any permanent coach they hire is gonna get a reasonable runway regardless of the results.

So far all we really know is Lowry is worse than Maurice, with maybe a few extra challenges thrown in since he took over the team.
Even if we don’t factor that in, I just don’t see how Maurice outperforming Lowry is some kind of vindication. I think most people who thought it was time for Maurice to move on, would not have replaced him with Lowry.
I didn’t expect any considerable change when they appointed Lowry, while also keeping everyone else in place. The team was trending downwards with Maurice and that’s just continued under Lowry. Interim coaches rarely have any significant impact with underperforming players and teams.

 

[WPGChief]

Good to see that after being on Maurice's ass for a a couple of years @WPGChief is finally coming around the good things Maurice brought to the table.

This change has gone very similar to what I expected, I always felt (and said so on this board) that there might be some amount of "be careful what you wish for" if Maurice was fired.

I am a broken record on this but if you compare results of teams coached by Maurice where he was either fired partway or he joined partway during the season (which to some extent controls for roster turnover)- those teams always did better with Maurice (to varying degrees) than they did without him going all the way back to his Carolina days. So at the very least he is/was an average-slightly above average coach in the NHL and moving on from him was always a risk as there are lots of below average NHL coaches out there. Even moreso a risk for the Jets as due to how they operate any permanent coach they hire is gonna get a reasonable runway regardless of the results.

lol that's not what I said or was trying to imply at all

Here are Evolving-Hockey's G± Components ("The data displayed in this table is based on the idea that a team’s goal differential can be broken down to four components: Shot Rates, Shot Quality, Shooting, and Goaltending. [...] This idea can be displayed at a team level by converting the rates, quality, shooting, and goaltending components to a “common currency” (goal values).") at 5v5 dating back to 2017-18:

The Jets have been underachieving since 2017-18 and have thrived on exceptional goaltending and shooting (and power play, though not shown above). As we can see this year, though they have made significant strides since the dog days of 2019-21 in terms of generating shots, they're still giving up more quality than getting, and as such still aren't close to being an actual playoff team. At least without Maurice micromanaging the special teams, the penalty kill has improved notably for the better (though power play leaves a lot to be desired, though I think that's more personnel than schemes at this point).

IMO, I still think Lowry is interim head coach in name only (it would've likely been Kompon, except he's dealing with personal family matters on-and-off this season) and that they are coaching-by-committee for the rest of this season. As such, there have hardly been any significant changes to much, and as a result are essentially getting the same results, or offensively worse - which can be handwaved by a harder schedule and bad injury luck. But considering the fact that Maurice "resigned" in any attempt to get some sort of bounce from this roster and there hasn't been any, also speaks volumes (to me).

Maurice is probably an average to an above-average coach, but it's clear his shelf life with this roster expired around the 2019 offseason or 2019-20 season, and the "rot" has permeated the team since. (Rot is a strong word - what I'm trying to say is that the current Hockey Ops have strong preconceptions about players and prospects (55 and 26 being 1st line or bust; 93 having to morph his game in the AHL and never being used on the PP2 except that is where his Liiga success came from; 27 essentially never getting PP1 ice time unless there's injury; etc.) and that won't go away unless there's a complete overhaul now. Introducing Lowry as the "interim" head coach did nothing to change those notions.)

(Also I hope it's abundantly clear to everyone that Cheveldayoff does not have the final say in any Hockey Ops decisions by now.)

 

[Teemusalami204]

It isn't be careful what you wish for in wanting Maurice out. It is that Lowry is no better. In fact, not much different at all. But Lowry is not the replacement for Maurice. He is a placeholder.

This was an opportunity for him but he has dropped the ball.

After loading up in the offseason it’s really perplexing that Chevy would take a chance on a. Placeholder and throw away another season

 

[Zippity]

How many other teams have kept the same coaching staff for so long?
Huddy? 2011
Flaherty? 2011
And player development guys all ex moose

 

[ps241]

lol that's not what I said or was trying to imply at all

Here are Evolving-Hockey's G± Components ("The data displayed in this table is based on the idea that a team’s goal differential can be broken down to four components: Shot Rates, Shot Quality, Shooting, and Goaltending. [...] This idea can be displayed at a team level by converting the rates, quality, shooting, and goaltending components to a “common currency” (goal values).") at 5v5 dating back to 2017-18:

The Jets have been underachieving since 2017-18 and have thrived on exceptional goaltending and shooting (and power play, though not shown above). As we can see this year, though they have made significant strides since the dog days of 2019-21 in terms of generating shots, they're still giving up more quality than getting, and as such still aren't close to being an actual playoff team. At least without Maurice micromanaging the special teams, the penalty kill has improved notably for the better (though power play leaves a lot to be desired, though I think that's more personnel than schemes at this point).

IMO, I still think Lowry is interim head coach in name only (it would've likely been Kompon, except he's dealing with personal family matters on-and-off this season) and that they are coaching-by-committee for the rest of this season. As such, there have hardly been any significant changes to much, and as a result are essentially getting the same results, or offensively worse - which can be handwaved by a harder schedule and bad injury luck. But considering the fact that Maurice "resigned" in any attempt to get some sort of bounce from this roster and there hasn't been any, also speaks volumes (to me).

Maurice is probably an average to an above-average coach, but it's clear his shelf life with this roster expired around the 2019 offseason or 2019-20 season, and the "rot" has permeated the team since. (Rot is a strong word - what I'm trying to say is that the current Hockey Ops have strong preconceptions about players and prospects (55 and 26 being 1st line or bust; 93 having to morph his game in the AHL and never being used on the PP2 except that is where his Liiga success came from; 27 essentially never getting PP1 ice time unless there's injury; etc.) and that won't go away unless there's a complete overhaul now. Introducing Lowry as the "interim" head coach did nothing to change those notions.)

(Also I hope it's abundantly clear to everyone that Cheveldayoff does not have the final say in any Hockey Ops decisions by now.)

I agree with most of your post, you had me until your last sentience. Where do you think Chevy is cut off at the knees? Are you talking about coaching staff decisions specifically or more?

 

[surixon]

lol that's not what I said or was trying to imply at all

Here are Evolving-Hockey's G± Components ("The data displayed in this table is based on the idea that a team’s goal differential can be broken down to four components: Shot Rates, Shot Quality, Shooting, and Goaltending. [...] This idea can be displayed at a team level by converting the rates, quality, shooting, and goaltending components to a “common currency” (goal values).") at 5v5 dating back to 2017-18:

The Jets have been underachieving since 2017-18 and have thrived on exceptional goaltending and shooting (and power play, though not shown above). As we can see this year, though they have made significant strides since the dog days of 2019-21 in terms of generating shots, they're still giving up more quality than getting, and as such still aren't close to being an actual playoff team. At least without Maurice micromanaging the special teams, the penalty kill has improved notably for the better (though power play leaves a lot to be desired, though I think that's more personnel than schemes at this point).

IMO, I still think Lowry is interim head coach in name only (it would've likely been Kompon, except he's dealing with personal family matters on-and-off this season) and that they are coaching-by-committee for the rest of this season. As such, there have hardly been any significant changes to much, and as a result are essentially getting the same results, or offensively worse - which can be handwaved by a harder schedule and bad injury luck. But considering the fact that Maurice "resigned" in any attempt to get some sort of bounce from this roster and there hasn't been any, also speaks volumes (to me).

Maurice is probably an average to an above-average coach, but it's clear his shelf life with this roster expired around the 2019 offseason or 2019-20 season, and the "rot" has permeated the team since. (Rot is a strong word - what I'm trying to say is that the current Hockey Ops have strong preconceptions about players and prospects (55 and 26 being 1st line or bust; 93 having to morph his game in the AHL and never being used on the PP2 except that is where his Liiga success came from; 27 essentially never getting PP1 ice time unless there's injury; etc.) and that won't go away unless there's a complete overhaul now. Introducing Lowry as the "interim" head coach did nothing to change those notions.)

(Also I hope it's abundantly clear to everyone that Cheveldayoff does not have the final say in any Hockey Ops decisions by now.)

So are saying that Chipman is running the show and Chevy is effectively a puppet?

 

[WPGChief]

I agree with most of your post. You had me until your last sentience. Where do you think Chevy is cut off at the knees? Are you talking about coaching staff decisions specifically or more?

So are saying that Chipman is running the show and Chevy is effectively a puppet?

Alright, let me be clear in that I have no insider info and have obviously corroborated nothing. But I would say based on what I know, there was a lot more of “Maurice and Chevy and Chipman” decisions then there were just “Maurice and Chevy” or just “Chevy” than what you would typically see of that sort of involvement across the NHL. I would at the very least hope that a “resignation” instead of firing would be the biggest tipoff to that.

 

[surixon]

Alright, let me be clear in that I have no insider info and have obviously corroborated nothing. But I would say based on what I know, there was a lot more of “Maurice and Chevy and Chipman” decisions then there were just “Maurice and Chevy” or just “Chevy” than what you would typically see of that sort of involvement across the NHL. I would at the very least hope that a “resignation” instead of firing would be the biggest tipoff to that.

I think most figured Maurice had way more power then he should have had. I think that was clear with the whole Heionla spat last year.

I know Mark is involved but he shouldn't be overruling his GM on things if he is doing that.

 

[ps241]

Alright, let me be clear in that I have no insider info and have obviously corroborated nothing. But I would say based on what I know, there was a lot more of “Maurice and Chevy and Chipman” decisions then there were just “Maurice and Chevy” or just “Chevy” than what you would typically see of that sort of involvement across the NHL. I would at the very least hope that a “resignation” instead of firing would be the biggest tipoff to that.

Yea I am not saying I have any concrete knowledge either but I had previously heard from one our two people that Chevy has allot of say. I am not saying Chipman is hands off by any means I am not very sure on this topic. I thought you might know something a bit more specific and I was all ears. I can see any owner really loving Maurice so who knows how much hair this had on it.

 

[Hunter368]

Alright, let me be clear in that I have no insider info and have obviously corroborated nothing. But I would say based on what I know, there was a lot more of “Maurice and Chevy and Chipman” decisions then there were just “Maurice and Chevy” or just “Chevy” than what you would typically see of that sort of involvement across the NHL. I would at the very least hope that a “resignation” instead of firing would be the biggest tipoff to that.

As you say its all speculation by all of us........but would any of us be surprised that one of the smallest market owners is involved to some degree in all major hockey decisions? TBH I would be shocked if he wasn't involved. That's like saying in business a small mom/dad run 1 million dollar business is run differently then Amazon from a management POV.........yes they are run differently and I would expect that. I wouldn't say the act of being involved in the major decisions is a bad thing, albeit at times bad decisions can still be made are obviously bad.

 

[surixon]

As you say its all speculation by all of us........but would any of us be surprised that one of the smallest market owners is involved to some degree in all major hockey decisions? TBH I would be shocked if he wasn't involved. That's like saying in business a small mom/dad run 1 million dollar business is run differently then Amazon from a management POV.........yes they are run differently and I would expect that. I wouldn't say the act of being involved in the major decisions is a bad thing, albeit at times bad decisions can still be made are obviously bad.

I think an owner should be involved in major decisions. I think this is important in a small market as certain hockey decisions could have major business consequences.

I do think Chevy should have full autonomy on who he staffs in the Hockey opps departments.

 

[Hunter368]

I think an owner should be involved in major decisions. I think this is important in a small market as certain hockey decisions could have major business consequences.

I do think Chevy should have full autonomy on who he staffs in the Hockey opps departments.

Having worked in some of the largest companies (top 3 employer in MB & multi billion organization) in Manitoba over the years, I can confirm that owners/CEO's get involved in many major decisions that technically are someone else's responsibility below the owner/CEO. People would often be surprised to what level they get involved in. Just from my 30+ years in management experience.

 

[surixon]

Having worked in some of the largest companies (top 3 employer in MB & multi billion organization) in Manitoba over the years, I can confirm that owners/CEO's get involved in many major decisions that technically are someone else's responsibility below the owner/CEO. People would often be surprised to what level they get involved in. Just from my 30+ years in management experience.

Yeah I've seen that in my place of work as well.

 

[Ducky10]

I would think Chipman would be involved in major decisions that have to do with the direction of the hockey club. Being involved and controlling or dictating what transpires are two different things. Pure speculation as to the degree he limits Chevy’s decision making.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

Kind of confused as to why Chipman wouldn't be involved in a decision like that. I mean its his money and we are not talking peanuts here

 

[Pandemonia]

@WPGChief writes:
"Alright, let me be clear in that I have no insider info and have obviously corroborated nothing. But I would say based on what I know"

@ps241 writes:
"Yea I am not saying I have any concrete knowledge either but I had previously heard from one our [sic] two people"

I crack up when I read these postings that basically start with "hey, I don't know anything, but I'm going to tell you something based on what I know..."

Literally, crack up. Loud enough to have my assistant poke her head into my office and ask what was so funny.

You guys are hilarious. Almost Trumpian at times. (Alternately, I just have a warped sense of humor.)

EDIT: Sense of humour.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

After loading up in the offseason it’s really perplexing that Chevy would take a chance on a. Placeholder and throw away another season

Yes. He must have thought Lowry had the potential. Either that or he didn't like anyone who was available mid-season. Maybe he wants Vincent after the season ends, or some other NHL assistant?

 

[MardyBum]

Yes. He must have thought Lowry had the potential. Either that or he didn't like anyone who was available mid-season. Maybe he wants Vincent after the season ends, or some other NHL assistant?

Yeahh, finding a coach for the next few years for this team will be much easier in the offseason, and the team was already off the rails. It's not like a knee jerk multi-year coach signing was going to instantly turn the team around. They still have key injuries, little forward depth, and wildly inconsistent efforts from important players.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Yeahh, finding a coach for the next few years for this team will be much easier in the offseason, and the team was already off the rails. It's not like a knee jerk multi-year coach signing was going to instantly turn the team around. They still have key injuries, little forward depth, and wildly inconsistent efforts from important players.

I don't like speculating about things like 'culture', 'leadership', etc that are out of our sight but, some of what I see screams attitude issues to me. The most obvious indicator I see is the pattern of playing well, even very well against better teams and crapping the bed against bottom feeders. That shows an arrogance and lack of respect for their opponents. The level of parity in the league is high enough that good teams need to play their best to beat bad teams.

So I can get onboard with a leadership change. If that is not the problem little or no harm done and if it is, the problem might be solved. This starts with coaching but includes Wheeler and Scheifele. Morrissey never gets named in this context, so something seems to show. Maybe the speculation is based on a visible reality. Morrissey seems to lead by example.

 

[surixon]

I don't like speculating about things like 'culture', 'leadership', etc that are out of our sight but, some of what I see screams attitude issues to me. The most obvious indicator I see is the pattern of playing well, even very well against better teams and crapping the bed against bottom feeders. That shows an arrogance and lack of respect for their opponents. The level of parity in the league is high enough that good teams need to play their best to beat bad teams.

So I can get onboard with a leadership change. If that is not the problem little or no harm done and if it is, the problem might be solved. This starts with coaching but includes Wheeler and Scheifele. Morrissey never gets named in this context, so something seems to show. Maybe the speculation is based on a visible reality. Morrissey seems to lead by example.

Morrissey brings a consistent effort and performance to the table. We also know he's clearly number 3 in the hierarchy.

Moving him given his performance and rank won't have an impact on leadership imo. If they need a change it really needs to start with Mark and/or Blake.

 

[BoneDocUK]

Morrissey brings a consistent effort and performance to the table. We also know he's clearly number 3 in the hierarchy.

Moving him given his performance and rank won't have an impact on leadership imo. If they need a change it really needs to start with Mark and/or Blake.

He's also a highly articulate and thoughtful guy who has an excellent hockey brain and the ability to translate tricky concepts into easily understandable terms -- that's a pretty strong skillset to have in the room.

I'm not sure what 55 brings to the table leadership-wise. I ad assumed that he and Wheeler were Maurice's go-to guys and eyes in the room, as it were. It isn't clear to me that he is a fine motivator or leader-of-men or whatever the hell an "A" is supposed to be, but maybe behind closed doors he's a genuine Patton.

Adam Lowry is another smart, articulate player who seems to have the ear of the team. I've thought for a while that he's captain material.

But yeah, back on topic -- Big Dave is gone, I expect, unless he gets an offer to stick around as a special teams coach. I think that Jamie Kompon away from Maurice is a useful tactician but who knows if he wants to be away from home anymore.

Huddy >>>>>> buy him a Toyota with a full tank of gas and point him away from Winnipeg. Flaherty too, even though he may be fine as a goalie coach.

 

[surixon]

Listening to Lowry talk about playing the right way, minnimum standards, and accountability with regards to Svech just rings hollow on me. Saying everyone needs to meet them is pretty comical given we've seen clear instances of our leaders not meet them for long stretches of time. They were given a ridiculous amount of leash to find their games.

I also am sick of the notion our bottom 6 seemingly needs to play a non skill chip and chase game. We need a complete philosophical overhaul in that department this offseason.

 

[DRW204]

reading murat's summary quotes - lowry's press conference is quite the doozy lol.