Interim Jets coach Dave Lowry (December 2021, not now)

[voyageur]

I get you value PK’ers and I agree they are integral to team success. I think you dismiss the number and types of players that could be successful doing it, and the Jets coaching over the past number of years seem to feel similar.

Looking at Beaulieu’s PK metrics over the past few seasons, it’s hard to put into words how unspeakably bad they were though. Like, he was a failure of epic proportions numbers wise when killing penalties.

First season he was ok, once De Melo was acquired, they were on a run through March that had the Jets as #1 PK after starting last. Last season he was replacement level. This season was the year to replace him, once the coach who built him up was gone. His metrics range in the mediocre range which summarizes his career.

The players who are slow, or injured to the point they can no longer skate, it's not the way to go on the PK. Smarts, quickness, and anticipation can make up for the physicality part. Tucker Poolman was a player that was developed properly, in that respect. Samberg and Kovacevic should get promoted next year, so there's a step in the right direction.

Systematically there still needs to improvement, at that's just to get to the mediocre range in special teams. For a team that gets some bullshit calls, you need to be a shutdown PK team, to keep momentum.

 

[voyageur]

I would argue that the Jets either don’t properly develop or didn’t properly evaluate their prospects which lead them to trade for Schmidt and Dillon.

They also haven’t drafted anything of note other than Perfetti since 2016 with Laine.

As far as killing penalties goes it’s the easiest thing to do. In that it doesn’t require a bunch of hockey sense to do it. Just a bit of willingness.

Just my two cents.

I agree with your assessment. I think Chevy overinvested in the defense, to the point where he hampered roster movement, with injuries. Draft picks still have to mature before I can write them off. I'd say there is improvement in the first seminormal season.

This was the trial year for Stanley, as he came out of camp as the first unit LD on the PK, and I don't think he was nearly as effective as Samberg was. I never quite understood why he started ahead of Dillon. Schmidt didn't even kill penalties this year on a regular basis, so that's a tough one to justify replacing Tucker Poolman.

As for penalty killing, it's not a glorious living, but I don't know how anyone could say playing with an advantage is easier than playing with a disadvantage. It takes hockey sense. I grew up in the Guy Carbonneau/Doug Smail era, where you didn't just defend on the PK, you were a threat to score. The Jets have improved in that aspect, while still giving up too many chances.. Every great team need good soldiers. If the Moose could translate their minor league success to the pros, it's an area where the Jets be more competitive.

 

[Jetland162702]

Ok, I've put on my helmet, my kevlar vest, and my lead underwear so here goes:
Lowry was put in a bad situation when he was asked to step up when the organization needed him to do so. He is not head coach material but he stepped up and probably doesn't deserve all the flack he gets.

 

[Jack7222]

Ok, I've put on my helmet, my kevlar vest, and my lead underwear so here goes:
Lowry was put in a bad situation when he was asked to step up when the organization needed him to do so. He is not head coach material but he stepped up and probably doesn't deserve all the flack he gets.

Doesn't seem controversial to me at all. I don't disagree at all and I think most of the blame goes to the org as a whole (and Chevy) for putting us in this position.

I definitely think we need a strong (and different) coaching staff going into next season.

 

[WPGChief]

Ok, I've put on my helmet, my kevlar vest, and my lead underwear so here goes:
Lowry was put in a bad situation when he was asked to step up when the organization needed him to do so. He is not head coach material but he stepped up and probably doesn't deserve all the flack he gets.

You're not wrong - I'm still pretty confident that the Jets are "coaching-by-committee" rather than Dave Lowry calling all the shots - but the fact remains that the team has performed worse in stretches under Lowry vs Maurice, even though they appear to be running the same playbook (albeit with some minor tweaks to things like the PK (which is mostly player usage)).

(there's also still this, lol)

 

[surixon]

Ok, I've put on my helmet, my kevlar vest, and my lead underwear so here goes:
Lowry was put in a bad situation when he was asked to step up when the organization needed him to do so. He is not head coach material but he stepped up and probably doesn't deserve all the flack he gets.

He was put in the exact spot a good many coaches are put in to get their opportunity. He also had significant advantages over all of them in that he actually had significant practice time to put in place his schemes and systems.

I don't feel bad for him at all, he straight up failed.

 

[LowLefty]

He was put in the exact spot a good many coaches are put in to get their opportunity. He also had significant advantages over all of them in that he actually had significant practice time to put in place his schemes and systems.

I don't feel bad for him at all, he straight up failed.

He came in as a temp - and everyone knew it -
He also took over for a coach that quit because the team was in a shambles, were not willing to listen, and appeared to be severely fractured.
And lastly, the issues on this team will not get fixed by "practice time" - they are way beyond that.

So no, he wasn't put in the exact position many coaches are put in.
I agree that most times a new coach is stepping in, it can be a tough gig - but this one was special.
I'd go as far as saying he was set up to fail.

He's a placeholder and was likely used to do nothing more than confirm what they already knew - that the team is badly broken.
If there were expectations beyond that, I'd be surprised.

 

[surixon]

He came in as a temp - and everyone knew it -
He also took over for a coach that quit because the team was in a shambles, were not willing to listen, and appeared to be severely fractured.
And lastly, the issues on this team will not get fixed by "practice time" - they are way beyond that.

So no, he wasn't put in the exact position many coaches are put in.
I agree that most times a new coach is stepping in, it can be a tough gig - but this one was special.
I'd go as far as saying he was set up to fail.

He's a placeholder and was likely used to do nothing more than confirm what they already knew - that the team is badly broken.
If there were expectations beyond that, I'd be surprised.

I mean almost every team that changes coaches mid season is in shambles. In almost every case the players have stopped listening. In most cases the replacement is named an interim or a temp as well. I don't see anything different here other then Maurice was allowed to resign and not get axed.

 

[cbcwpg]

He came in as a temp - and everyone knew it -
He also took over for a coach that quit because the team was in a shambles, were not willing to listen, and appeared to be severely fractured.
And lastly, the issues on this team will not get fixed by "practice time" - they are way beyond that.

So no, he wasn't put in the exact position many coaches are put in.
I agree that most times a new coach is stepping in, it can be a tough gig - but this one was special.
I'd go as far as saying he was set up to fail.

He's a placeholder and was likely used to do nothing more than confirm what they already knew - that the team is badly broken.
If there were expectations beyond that, I'd be surprised.

The team is who they are, the room is what it is. Any coach coming in was going to be starting with the same situation Lowry was given. If Lowry was set up to fail then no matter who we would have replaced Maurice with , they would have also failed. But I don't believe that... Lowry failed IMO because Lowry kept doing what Maurice was doing... nothing changed. Nothing being changed is on Lowry.

 

[DRW204]

I would argue that the Jets either don’t properly develop or didn’t properly evaluate their prospects which lead them to trade for Schmidt and Dillon.

They also haven’t drafted anything of note other than Perfetti since 2016 with Laine.

As far as killing penalties goes it’s the easiest thing to do. In that it doesn’t require a bunch of hockey sense to do it. Just a bit of willingness.

Just my two cents.

their drafting/developing of top-4D is morrissey, trouba and nothing else. samberg and heinola might be top-4 calibre, but id like to see them more than 10 games with low TOI before labeling them anything.

their drafting and developing is becoming a bit overrated as of late. people on here praise these prospects, yet they cannot beat out the likes of sbisa, forbort, beaulieu for instance? Samberg will be entering his draft+6 year and when healthy, there is now no spot on him at LD barring any movement. I think this org values stanley over samberg still, so unless dillon is being dealt where he going to play? and ditto for heinola.

i brought this up last off-season..... our D depth chart was piss poor the last couple years, and our supposed highly-touted prospects could not win jobs over them. now, we made some large vet acquisitions, gave Pionk a large deal, i am not sure where or when they will be on this roster as full-timers.

 

[LowLefty]

The team is who they are, the room is what it is. Any coach coming in was going to be starting with the same situation Lowry was given. If Lowry was set up to fail then no matter who we would have replaced Maurice with , they would have also failed. But I don't believe that... Lowry failed IMO because Lowry kept doing what Maurice was doing... nothing changed. Nothing being changed is on Lowry.

IMO, Lowry failed because he didn't have the experience or skill to deal with this issue - and the org likely knew that.
The year was a write off at that point - although I'm sure Chevy and group would have appreciated a nice surprise - but I doubt they were expecting one (regardless or what was said to the media and fan base)

 

[LowLefty]

I mean almost every team that changes coaches mid season is in shambles. In almost every case the players have stopped listening. In most cases the replacement is named an interim or a temp as well. I don't see anything different here other then Maurice was allowed to resign and not get axed.

I won't debate the level of "shambles" - is all opinion.
But I will say - this team, right now, is a horrible mess that not all new coaches are exposed to -
But like I said - this totally based on the eye of the beholder -

I personally think this team will need more than a new coach to fix the issues. And if that is true, what could you expect Lowry to do when there were no changes made at the time? Add a new scheme?

 

[surixon]

their drafting/developing of top-4D is morrissey, trouba and nothing else. samberg and heinola might be top-4 calibre, but id like to see them more than 10 games with low TOI before labeling them anything.

their drafting and developing is becoming a bit overrated as of late. people on here praise these prospects, yet they cannot beat out the likes of sbisa, forbort, beaulieu for instance? Samberg will be entering his draft+6 year and when healthy, there is now no spot on him at LD barring any movement. I think this org values stanley over samberg still, so unless dillon is being dealt where he going to play? and ditto for heinola.

i brought this up last off-season..... our D depth chart was piss poor the last couple years, and our supposed highly-touted prospects could not win jobs over them. now, we made some large vet acquisitions, gave Pionk a large deal, i am not sure where or when they will be on this roster as full-timers.

They went into win now mode and stopped integrating the kids the last 3 to 4 years. So I guess we will have to see moving forward on some of our prospects and how they are integrated and used.

 

[DRW204]

They went into win now mode and stopped integrating the kids the last 3 to 4 years. So I guess we will have to see moving forward on some of our prospects and how they are integrated and used.

Well if the best Chevy can do for win now is forbrot, sbisa, Beaulieu, Poolman, etc.... Yikes

But that's been his trend through his tenure here.

 

[surixon]

I won't debate the level of "shambles" - is all opinion.
But I will say - this team, right now, is a horrible mess that not all new coaches are exposed to -
But like I said - this totally based on the eye of the beholder -

I personally think this team will need more than a new coach to fix the issues. And if that is true, what could you expect Lowry to do when there were no changes made at the time? Add a new scheme?

He needed to do what every coach needs to do and sell the players on his ideas. To me one issue was it appears he had no new ideas or didn't implement them. Given what we have heard from the players lately they were tired of and didn't belive in the systems that were being run here. So right there he was fighting an uphill battle by doubling down on something the players had given up on. Usually when a new coach takes over he brings his own ideas a d systems i.e is selling something different.

I'm not going to deny other things also need to happen other then a new coach and scheme but we have seen improvements in teams with speculated room issues like Vancouver. They are playing much better under Bruce even though there is a lot of speculation of a divided room (Horvat vs Miller).

So even if Wheeler/Scheifele are causing issues in the room I think a different message would have lead to some improvements.

 

[WolfHouse]

What makes you think dinosaurs are as dumb as HC Lowry?

I watched the sitcom

 

[LowLefty]

He needed to do what every coach needs to do and sell the players on his ideas. To me one issue was it appears he had no new ideas or didn't implement them. Given what we have heard from the players lately they were tired of and didn't belive in the systems that were being run here. So right there he was fighting an uphill battle by doubling down on something the players had given up on. Usually when a new coach takes over he brings his own ideas a d systems i.e is selling something different.

I'm not going to deny other things also need to happen other then a new coach and scheme but we have seen improvements in teams with speculated room issues like Vancouver. They are playing much better under Bruce even though there is a lot of speculation of a divided room (Horvat vs Miller).

So even if Wheeler/Scheifele are causing issues in the room I think a different message would have lead to some improvements.

Here's what we agree on:
The teams has not changed it's game plan since Lowry took over

And here's where we disagree:
You assume he didn't make an effort to make changes because you don't see any change.
I assume he tried to make a few fundamental changes but some are not buying it.

Neither of us know -

 

[surixon]

Here's what we agree on:
The teams has not changed it's game plan since Lowry took over

And here's where we disagree:
You assume he didn't make an effort to make changes because you don't see any change.
I assume he tried to make a few fundamental changes but some are not buying it.

Neither of us know -

Fair enough, all I have to go on is a few of his sound bites and what I see. I guess we all will have to see what direction the org chooses to go In this summer.

I expect a new coaching staff and a foundation altering trade. I'm more on the wagon that Wheeler needs to go ala Suter and Parise in Minnesota and Giordano in Calgary. This org needs a leadership change so you have to remove the chief voice in the room like they did.

I'm unsure what to do about Mark. Even in a craptastic year he scores 30 and is over a ppg. If a new coach can get through to him he would help the team immensely.

 

[cbcwpg]

Lowry's reasoning on not bringing in Moose players.

“We've used 14 guys (including third-string goalie Mikhail Berdin), 13 guys from the Moose that have played games. I think a lot of these guys had auditions when these were meaningful games,” said Lowry. “I'd be doing a disservice to some of our guys right now that are auditioning for positions next year. And am I going to take out some veteran guys to play a couple of younger guys when the Moose are in the playoff run? What happens if those guys get hurt playing up here? I think that's probably the thought process behind it."

“We've had six guys from the Moose that played their first game in the National Hockey League. So we believe that, yeah they might not be getting their chance here in the last week, but some of these guys got opportunities throughout the season and got real good opportunities. A couple of guys missed out on chances because they were hurt or had COVID with the Moose and that took away opportunities for them."

Lowry emphasized that the Jets were still auditioning some players on the current roster and hinted that is a higher priority right now.

“Absolutely. This isn’t the first time some of these guys have experienced not making the playoffs. They have an understanding,” said Lowry. “It’s critical for young players, but it’s also critical for veteran players. Not only are you auditioning, but how you finish these games, you leave impressions and not only with your own organization, but throughout the league.”

 

[cbcwpg]

Lowry can say whatever he wants, he can do whatever he wants. It doesn't matter because he only has 7 days left on the job.

 

[voyageur]

Lowry's reasoning on not bringing in Moose players.

“We've used 14 guys (including third-string goalie Mikhail Berdin), 13 guys from the Moose that have played games. I think a lot of these guys had auditions when these were meaningful games,” said Lowry. “I'd be doing a disservice to some of our guys right now that are auditioning for positions next year. And am I going to take out some veteran guys to play a couple of younger guys when the Moose are in the playoff run? What happens if those guys get hurt playing up here? I think that's probably the thought process behind it."

“We've had six guys from the Moose that played their first game in the National Hockey League. So we believe that, yeah they might not be getting their chance here in the last week, but some of these guys got opportunities throughout the season and got real good opportunities. A couple of guys missed out on chances because they were hurt or had COVID with the Moose and that took away opportunities for them."

Lowry emphasized that the Jets were still auditioning some players on the current roster and hinted that is a higher priority right now.

“Absolutely. This isn’t the first time some of these guys have experienced not making the playoffs. They have an understanding,” said Lowry. “It’s critical for young players, but it’s also critical for veteran players. Not only are you auditioning, but how you finish these games, you leave impressions and not only with your own organization, but throughout the league.”

It makes sense to me. Other than Gustafsson, and Berdin there's not really a player who hasn't been auditioned this year. Gustafsson is an important player for the Moose, with all the European/Swedes coming in. His shot will come at training camp next year.

But other than Gawanke, who probably never makes the team, and Lundmark, who is left to assess?

I don't what the organization is going to assess, seems to me like Dubois and Wheeler are tuned out, their efforts have been mediocre at times. Schmidt is getting worse. At least Barron is getting a shot. Samberg is getting a shot. You'd think that Perfetti would be too if he was healthy, and Gustafsson will be in the mix next year. I think Harkins and Svetchnikov are being assessed on whether they get another contact, as I can't see the Jets bringing back all of Harkins, Svetch, and Ves, who don't contribute to special teams, if special teams is an issue that needs to be addressed. I hope that Ehlers on the first PP is something the Jets are looking at.

Lowry sounds like a guy who is doing the work he was hired to do. Which can't be said of everyone on the ice.