Incompetence vs Indifference

[ToneDog]

Option C makes no sense.

They really only care about revenue. No self-respecting organization would put up with this level of humiliation for this long if they actually cared about winning.

Have you not heard? The new guy in charge, who knows more about golf than hockey says they are not here to sell jerseys. Only a matter of time before he turns this around. If not, he will help these clowns with their golf games.

 

[darrylsittler27]

None of the above. Go look at all the completely stupid trades over the years. The ownership is dumb and keeps getting played by NHL insiders. No hockey fan could makes moves so Pejorative Slured. The NHL knows, as long as they make money that Toronto fans are powerless. You cannot find a pro sport team who consistently does the stupidest thing possible. It's mathematically impossible.

None of the above. Go look at all the completely stupid trades over the years. The ownership is dumb and keeps getting played by NHL insiders. No we dodged a bullet with Markstrom. No fan could makes moves so Pejorative Slured. The NHL knows, as long as they make money that Toronto fans are powerless. You cannot find a pro sport team who consistently does the stupidest thing possible. It's mathematically impossible.

 

[Tie Domi Esquire]

This man will save us.

Conn Smythe reincarnated.

 

[notbias]

"Sports is a results oriented business" and the stats don't lie.

As far as playoff performance and winning playoff games the Leafs rank #1 as the Worst of all 32 teams.

The recent expansion Seattle team lost in game #7 by a 2-1 score to Dallas of round #2, after beating the defending Cup Champs Avs in round #1 in just 2023

View attachment 884647

Our Leafs in 19 years of the Salary Cap have not be able to match a recent expansion team let alone, noting that the other recent expansion team Vegas won the Stanley Cup this season.

How can anyone with a straight face declare the Leafs are in it to win it all as their #1 objective, while the results put them behind expansion teams, who began with other teams castoffs.

The moral of the story being all the Money in the World can't buy you Stanley Cup success. as you have to earn it and you need the right players, coaches and systems to achieve that.

Don't even get me started on the gross incompetence of the Shanahan, Dubas, Keefe and Mark Hunter era.

There is only a Salary Cap for players but not management, so then why would the richest NHL team hire a Greenhorn President, who hired a greenhorn GM who hired a greenhorn Coach without any experience at their NHL positions thinking this is the road to Stanley Cup success? Are you really kidding me, trying to convince me this is MLSE serious about winning the Cup?

Sadly MLSE got exactly what they paid for, and sadly for all of Leaf Nation Fans they have to pay the price for investing their time and effort into their team with NO hope of success, and only endure endless failure.

A reminder that the best team of the last 10 years had a rookie GM and rookie coach lead them to two cups and that your post is too long for what you say, you could just put a crying emoji and be done with it.

 

[Ports]

I don't recall which GM said it but the GM wanted to bring in a star player and the owner (probably Ballard) asked the GM to look at the stands and then asked, why do I need to bring this guy in, do you see any empty seats?

Owners may not be a scummy as Ballard but not much has changed. They have no clue how to win. New GM, new coach, new assistants, new Pres, etc etc etc. The joke of the National Hockey League and perhaps all of sports along with a few more incompetent organizations. Sad for such a loyal fanbase.

And yet the same organization owns the Raptors and let their President trade their best player for a one shot chance to win a championship. Shanahan is the problem and he should have been fired years ago. I blame the MLSE board for letting two inexperienced guys, him and Dubas run the ship into the iceberg.

 

[Tie Domi Esquire]

A reminder that the best team of the last 10 years had a rookie GM and rookie coach lead them to two cups and that your post is too long for what you say, you could just put a crying emoji and be done with it.

What's the difference between Yzerman/Cooper and Dubas/Keefe since they were all rookies?

 

[Niagara Bill]

And yet the same organization owns the Raptors and let their President trade their best player for a one shot chance to win a championship. Shanahan is the problem and he should have been fired years ago. I blame the MLSE board for letting two inexperienced guys, him and Dubas run the ship into the iceberg.

And now allow that Prez to spend his time running around Africa and not concentrating on the job, and where are they now..they may be another 57 years

 

[Ports]

And now allow that Prez to spend his time running around Africa and not concentrating on the job, and where are they now..they may be another 57 years.

1 > 0

 

[Racer88]

A reminder that the best team of the last 10 years had a rookie GM and rookie coach lead them to two cups and that your post is too long for what you say, you could just put a crying emoji and be done with it.

 

[Folignos Helmet]

Doesn't winning provide the most entertainment?

It might but it’s not needed.
An Entertaining product is the priority. That means being good enough to maintain hope and have players that are exciting. If you win more sure great but not necessary.

 

[nsleaf]

Perhaps MLSE are indifferent to thier own incompetence.

 

[Notsince67]

Maximize shareholder value.

How do you do that? Maximize revenue, where costs are more or less fixed.

How do you maximize revenue? Play the maximum number of home games.

How do you maximize playing the most home games? Going deep in the playoffs.

That's all there is to this.

And then there is merchandise...

 

[ACC1224]

It might but it’s not needed.
An Entertaining product is the priority. That means being good enough to maintain hope and have players that are exciting. If you win more sure great but not necessary.

I've sat through many years of losing and many years of winning and the latter is far more entertaining and obviously more profitable for the team.

 

[Trapper]

This man will save us.

View attachment 884961

Conn Smythe reincarnated.

He’ll make sure the Leafs score enough touchdowns to win.

 

[Folignos Helmet]

I've sat through many years of losing and many years of winning and the latter is far more entertaining and obviously more profitable for the team.

From my perspective it comes
Down to risk versus reward. Are they willing to do whatever it takes to win even if there is a high risk of stepping back or losing players that fans really like.
I’m not sure this ownership group of willing to do that. It is operated like a major corporation. A certain degree of risk is acceptable. Maybe a single owner like Bill Foley can take big gambles. I don’t think the leafs would.

 

[Gallagbi]

From my perspective it comes
Down to risk versus reward. Are they willing to do whatever it takes to win even if there is a high risk of stepping back or losing players that fans really like.
I’m not sure this ownership group of willing to do that. It is operated like a major corporation. A certain degree of risk is acceptable. Maybe a single owner like Bill Foley can take big gambles. I don’t think the leafs would.

Theres a few assumptions here like the single owner pushing in the right way and not being another Harold. It also assumes the gambles payoff to a point you can win and you're not continually betting on 00.

We've seen fan favourites come and go, so I don't think that's the hurdle people pretend. From Hyman, Andersen, Lupul recently way back to the Wendel trade. Seems like the big issue is the management believes in the core more than the fans

 

[ACC1224]

From my perspective it comes
Down to risk versus reward. Are they willing to do whatever it takes to win even if there is a high risk of stepping back or losing players that fans really like.
I’m not sure this ownership group of willing to do that. It is operated like a major corporation. A certain degree of risk is acceptable. Maybe a single owner like Bill Foley can take big gambles. I don’t think the leafs would.

They've shed players that fans like many times over the years and did a bottom out rebuild not that long ago.

Not removing a player(s) that some fans wish they would doesn't necessarily mean they are risk averse, they may just still like the player.

 

[Fogelhund]

And then there is merchandise...

Merchandise, alcohol sales.. point of sale stuff... all increased by having more people, at more games....

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

It boggles my mind people STILL think an extra 9-12 home games a year is incentive for Rogers and Bell.

That's small time thinking. Like digging a hole hoping to find a buck. When really you should be prospecting for gold.

Rogers and Bell are sports conglomerates the way I'm a stock broker.

I own a handful of them. Mainly through holding companies known as mutual funds. And if I really wanted I could exercise my shareholders rights to vote on the executives.

But mostly I'm happy to just sit back and collect the chump change dividends on my investment.

All the real money comes from the increase in equity value. That and from my actual main income source known as working. Same as how Rogers and Bell earn umpteen billions from their megalithic media monopoly.

Not from their pityful little hockey team.

After rent my Rogers bill is my biggest expense. It dwarfs anything I spend on the Leafs in a yearly basis and I doubt I'm in the minority. Once you recognize that it's easy to understand why Rogers and Bell aren't in the sports business to either win cups OR even because of any profits the team might earn.

ML$E is simply a minor investment meant to boost brand awareness and provide content for their subscribers.

 

[Folignos Helmet]

They've shed players that fans like many times over the years and did a bottom out rebuild not that long ago.

Not removing a player(s) that some fans wish they would doesn't necessarily mean they are risk averse, they may just still like the player.

Fair enough but I think that process was done to create the current stability as a shift away from previous failed ownership bungling.

It’s an open question if they are willing to rock that boat to try and win.

 

[Tie Domi Esquire]

He’ll make sure the Leafs score enough touchdowns to win.

He will ensure that the Leafs upgrade their Shooting Guard position

 

[darrylsittler27]

What's the difference between Yzerman/Cooper and Dubas/Keefe since they were all rookies?

Yzerman played hockey, Dubas was completely useless. The Leafs never figure anything until it's too late.

 

[Tie Domi Esquire]

Yzerman played hockey, Dubas was completely useless. The Leafs never figure anything until it's too late.

That poster was right... They were all rookies... I guess. But surely there must be some differences between Yzerman/Cooper in Tampa and Dubas/Keefe in Toronto. I was hoping that poster would enlighten us on what those might be.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Okay. I honestly think either a a tonne of people blocked out 2014 and the few years preceding that - (understandably) or weren't fans of the team or whatever. note - i'm not necessarily defending Shanahan because there have been a lot of things that he has allowed/interceded with that I have spoke up against some of his actions.

Shanahan's biggest thing when he got here was patience. patience in the process, patience in the development of our players etc etc. etc - especially because people still to this day harp on Burke and the Kessell deal, and the freaking "We coulda had Neidermayer!" and so on and so on and whatever. his job was also to basically rehab the Leaf's image everywhere.. I honestly think he's done that in spades. I will say that i think they have totally got wrapped in always winning the PR battle now under shanahan. like they won't make the controversial choices to make the team better (Perry for example). but i have to wonder if a lot of that stems from people up there remembering how. NOT GOOD it was here in 2014 on ALL sides of it.

I will say Shanahan's biggest mistake - was putting all of his eggs in Dubas's basket. I don't think it was a bad idea to give him a chance, but he was obsessed with trusting in Dubas and I think ultimately that is what tarnished the good that Shanahan did here. which is fair because that does land on him.

Those who are harping on Mitch and goodness knows his agent and his just utter lack of awareness is doing him zero favours - are going to be the same people who are going to harp on the Leafs if he gets traded and gets it together and completely shines in the playoffs. (now for me. I don't care because I've always advocated that we make the best trade for our team and it's not about fleecing anyone it's about both teams winning). Shanahan's dedication to being patient is what is hurting the team now - but the fact that for decades the team hasn't been patient kind of makes sense why he's like okay maybe they'll be able to get it together if we can just fix the pieces around them. I personally feel that's also a very valid takeway.

the problem is that this team just refuses to do it. I don't know if it's the fact that they simply can't or that they won't. the team is hurting the trust Shanahan put in them. (constantly) and i think that's rather sad. but it is up to any savvy individual to know when to cut bait - that should trump loyalty.


but this constant belief that the organization as a whole is happy with 2 playoff dates when they could have potentially have eight is just dumb. i'd even argue the belief that they don't want to fail is dumb. they were okay with it because they STILL made money. i just feel that they need to be more ruthless (SMART Ruthless not "heck yah let's make trades" ruthless).

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

43.6% of the vote don't realize that even if all they want is money still want to win, because as much money as they make now, if they ever won they'd make 10X more.

Can you imagine what a ticket to a finals would cost? I hope you are prepared to be homeless because you would be if you bought that ticket.

Are you prepared to never eat again because food isn't an option.

Winning = money it's not a hard concept

What's the difference between Yzerman/Cooper and Dubas/Keefe since they were all rookies?

Cooper is not an idiot, Keefe is