If it's not Jack Campbell who should be the Leafs new #1 goalie?

[Clark4Ever]

This is very interesting, thanks for sharing. I know most people here are calling Murray a joke and so on but I have to say, I'm feeling a lot better about him having read this.

His track record dictates that he's definitely not a joke. I think he could rebound nicely in the right environment - especially Toronto.

The only legitimate concern is his durability.

 

[tmlfan98]

Caps defence was spotty all year. If you can get him as 1a/1b, it's worth the risk, especially since he is young enough to make significant gains in development.

Samsonov is 25. Adin Hill is only 1 year older than him and is far better. He just doesn't have the pedigree of being a former 1st round pick like Samsonov I guess. For what it's worth, Adin Hill also has a past connection with Jon Elkin, the same guy who someone posted works for the Leafs and has known Matt Murray since he was 10 years old.

 

[Clark4Ever]

Vezina candidate by the sounds of it.
Shrewd move here, Dubas is like the Wiley Coyote of the NHL.

It's Wile E. Coyote...

 

[Nylander88]

Amazing.

Leaf fans are no doubt the best fanbase on the planet.

Passionate bunch and I love it lol but sometimes get unreasonable and impatient lol I'm gonna be fully behind whoever our next #1 is. Gotta back my boys

 

[DarkKnight]

I don’t doubt that Murray could rebound his career, the Sens were the worst defensive structure I saw, absolutely awful. It’s still quite a risk, seems more than Campbell, so hard to see this as a net positive over last year. Obviously, will hope the guy finds his game and stays healthy, but hard to feel super confident Dubas isn’t doing anything but desperately trying to fill the net.

 

[Canadian Finn]

Passionate bunch and I love it lol but sometimes get unreasonable and impatient lol I'm gonna be fully behind whoever our next #1 is. Gotta back my boys

I try to keep my eyes open and realize a snake oil salesman when I see one.

But I too remember when I thought the Leafs could do no wrong. I've since learned.

 

[rocketman588]

Oh for sure the whole evaluation of Soup and Mrazek - just way off. And that's why we're here

Yep like at least give him the exact same deal but whatever can't go back now

 

[SeaOfBlue]

He's a UFA ya

I think Halak can play, but I don't think he is a tandem guy anymore. He can maybe get up to 30 games, but more than that and I think you are pushing it for him.

Perfect backup if I am Washington (assuming they get Kuemper) or Rangers right now though.

 

[DarkKnight]

TSN ”so you’re betting a pivotal year on a reclamation project in net”

Why yes we are….

 

[rocketman588]

I don’t doubt that Murray could rebound his career, the Sens were the worst defensive structure I saw, absolutely awful. It’s still quite a risk, seems more than Campbell, so hard to see this as a net positive over last year. Obviously, will hope the guy finds his game and stays healthy, but hard to feel super confident Dubas isn’t doing anything but desperately trying to fill the net.

The only counter point to that is forsburg had a .917 so they were obviously doing something right

 

[Gallagbi]

Where did the Samsonov rumblings come from? Just logical speculation with them looking for another option

 

[HockeyVirus]

How many do you want?

I'll start with Marchment for Malgin.

I'll give you that one, poor trade. But it was a minor league trade when it went down. He didn't really breakout until this season.

 

[hamzarocks]

It’s pretty debatable that Campbell was any more than a 3M goalie when the season began last year. And Mrazek, unlike Campbell had a lengthy career of respectable results going into his UFA

I thought we offered Campell 2.75M by 3 this offseason after the Tampa loss?

Weiterleitungshinweis

This article mentions the offer and amount but it unclear on the date the offer was made.

If we offered Jack 3M x 3 last year it was a fair offer but we probably should have considered who was the likely starter between him and Mrazek going into the 2021-2022 season. Would be tough for the goalie likelier to get more starts to take less than the other guy who got 3.8M

This offseason if we wanted Campbell we should have offered 4-4.25M by 4 years

 

[DarkKnight]

The only counter point to that is forsburg had a .917 so they were obviously doing something right

True dat.

 

[saltming]

One of the most reputable goalie schools - Jon Elkin Goalie School

Jon Elkin started coaching goalies at 16. His hockey goalie school has grown into one of the largest and most reputable in the world.

elkingoaltending.com

john elkin leafs goalie scout

This is the X factor, Elkin has been his coach forever.
So either he sees something he recognizes as easily fixable and is confident he can restore Murray to form

 

[saltming]

The long and short of it is that Campbell is the best goalie available to us right now and all the other options we are looking at currently are a downgrade, we didnt make it over the hump last season, we really think we're going to this season if we downgrade in goal?

Dubas was way to cocky and confident he could find another goalie to replace Campbell and just left him in the dust, there was one initial offer and nothing until last week when he said he would speak again.

He low balled him (yes its how negotiations work) but still starting offer lower than Mrazek? Thats just rude offered 2.75 when one of the worst goalies around was getting paid higher than you last season to sit on the shelf.

Either way time will tell neither of us have a time machine but i see us kicking ourselves in the a** for not signing Campbell and making that a priority, the market is terrible and even Gibson said he has no interest coming here so its looking pretty bad for the Leafs right now.

Rumours are that Edmonton is signing Campbell but again, lets see wednesday, regardless we look like we're about to be caught with our pants down.

Questionable if he's the best and the best of the UFA goalies as we don't know what trade scenarios are possible.
Kuemper puts a large wrinkle in your argument as their stats are similar yet one just won the Stanley cup

 

[rocketman588]

Where did the Samsonov rumblings come from? Just logical speculation with them looking for another option

Wasn't qualified

 

[Gallagbi]

Wasn't qualified

Thanks, ive missed most of todays action

 

[trellaine201]

Wow I really hope Dubas is working out some numbers with Ilya

 

[hamzarocks]

I'll give you that one, poor trade. But it was a minor league trade when it went down. He didn't really breakout until this season.

There have been plenty of poor moves by Dubas including draft selections, trades, contract extensions

Poor moves:

1) Kadri trade: Poor value in the long-term as we couldn't realistically keep Barrie if he worked without a big piece going out. Kadri was also a very good asset co tract and I'd liked to see him under a new coach, and on the LW rather than 3C

2) Marleau Deal: 50 on KD and 50 on Lou for the third year.

3) Nylander contract negotiations/ Marner negotiation, Matthews term

4) Kessel deal: Was during his time as interim GM and it was both him and Hunter but they should have avoided the 1.2M retention or gotten more in return

5) Amirov over Schneider/Mercer. Hopefully Amirov stays healthy and comes back and becomes a great player

6) Mrazek, and Ritchie signings. Waste of cap for players that were dealt very shortly

7) Own rentals. Gardiner, Andersen, Hyman. He didnt get value for any of them, we lost in the playoffs and he like Lou had decided to keep their up coming UFAs (JVR and Bozak and Komo in 2018)

8) Sparks over Mcbackup: Mcbackup was proven and had given great goaltending. Sparks had a very odd style and stunk in the NHL. Should have dealt him for a few picks and used Mcbackup as we were looking to contend

9) Marchment for Malgin: Why go for a player with a skillet we already had in spades vs give a rare Ayer type prospect a real shot to break onto our team?

10) Foligno trade; heavy overpay for a declining and injury prone vet

Just a few of the Poor moves he's made as our GM

He's also made quite good moves, trades, and contracts so I'll list those out to to be fair:

1) Rielly extension: Nurse, Jones, Werenski, all inferior to rielly had gotten paid handsomely. He got Mo to come back at 8 years and on a very fair deal.

2) Robertson/Niemela/Knies: upward trending draft picks with a clear skillet that can be used on the team. Ideally they're all here by AM34s final year of his 2nd contract at the latest

3) Muzzin trade; While the contract extension was just fair, tbe trade was very good. Got a #2/3D for a 3rd line prospect, a late 1st and a 4/5D prospect.

4) Campbell trade: smart and alert move. A potential 1A/starter goalie who could grow into a 45-50 game starter to replace Andersen. Got him for Moore and 2 3rds along with Clifford. Campbell gave us good goaltending in 2021 and 2022. Very solid trade to get him while he was at 1.65M

5) Brodie signing: Got a d-men that would fit with 44 and plays a responsible game for the most part: 4 years term was also very good as it avoids any major decline years

6) Kampf; Not many liked this move and neither did I when it was made. Kampf had a strong year with depth offense and great defensive game

7) Bunting: Great signing for a guy who fits with 34 and 16 and can play a pest style game. 2 years helped give us a Hyman replacement for cheap

8) Zaitsev deal: Good trade, didn't give up too much at the time. Brown broke out but not sure he'd do the same in TOR.

9) Kapanen deal: Got great value for a player we needed to move unfortunately due to cap crunch and lack of playoff success. Amirov wasn't the best pick but the value was good

10) McCann deal: Once again he swinfled the pens , but sadly he messed up and prioritzied an overrated and mistake prone Holl which hurt us this year

Overall Dubas tenure is a 75% for me. He's done some good things and some questionable ones.

He hasn't led the team though to success. Next year marks half a decade as the head of the table being our GM. We need some tangible playoff success to continue to see him as a credible leader for the following 5 years

 

[saltming]

Vezina candidate by the sounds of it.
Shrewd move here, Dubas is like the Wiley Coyote of the NHL.

Bunting was pretty shrewd

 

[trellaine201]

Let’s go hockey and let’s go Ilya.

 

[HockeyVirus]

There have been plenty of poor moves by Dubas including draft selections, trades, contract extensions

Poor moves:

1) Kadri trade: Poor value in the long-term as we couldn't realistically keep Barrie if he worked without a big piece going out. Kadri was also a very good asset co tract and I'd liked to see him under a new coach, and on the LW rather than 3C

2) Marleau Deal: 50 on KD and 50 on Lou for the third year.

3) Nylander contract negotiations/ Marner negotiation, Matthews term

4) Kessel deal: Was during his time as interim GM and it was both him and Hunter but they should have avoided the 1.2M retention or gotten more in return

5) Amirov over Schneider/Mercer. Hopefully Amirov stays healthy and comes back and becomes a great player

6) Mrazek, and Ritchie signings. Waste of cap for players that were dealt very shortly

7) Own rentals. Gardiner, Andersen, Hyman. He didnt get value for any of them, we lost in the playoffs and he like Lou had decided to keep their up coming UFAs (JVR and Bozak and Komo in 2018)

8) Sparks over Mcbackup: Mcbackup was proven and had given great goaltending. Sparks had a very odd style and stunk in the NHL. Should have dealt him for a few picks and used Mcbackup as we were looking to contend

9) Marchment for Malgin: Why go for a player with a skillet we already had in spades vs give a rare Ayer type prospect a real shot to break onto our team?

10) Foligno trade; heavy overpay for a declining and injury prone vet

Just a few of the Poor moves he's made as our GM

He's also made quite good moves, trades, and contracts so I'll list those out to to be fair:

1) Rielly extension: Nurse, Jones, Werenski, all inferior to rielly had gotten paid handsomely. He got Mo to come back at 8 years and on a very fair deal.

2) Robertson/Niemela/Knies: upward trending draft picks with a clear skillet that can be used on the team. Ideally they're all here by AM34s final year of his 2nd contract at the latest

3) Muzzin trade; While the contract extension was just fair, tbe trade was very good. Got a #2/3D for a 3rd line prospect, a late 1st and a 4/5D prospect.

4) Campbell trade: smart and alert move. A potential 1A/starter goalie who could grow into a 45-50 game starter to replace Andersen. Got him for Moore and 2 3rds along with Clifford. Campbell gave us good goaltending in 2021 and 2022. Very solid trade to get him while he was at 1.65M

5) Brodie signing: Got a d-men that would fit with 44 and plays a responsible game for the most part: 4 years term was also very good as it avoids any major decline years

6) Kampf; Not many liked this move and neither did I when it was made. Kampf had a strong year with depth offense and great defensive game

7) Bunting: Great signing for a guy who fits with 34 and 16 and can play a pest style game. 2 years helped give us a Hyman replacement for cheap

8) Zaitsev deal: Good trade, didn't give up too much at the time. Brown broke out but not sure he'd do the same in TOR.

9) Kapanen deal: Got great value for a player we needed to move unfortunately due to cap crunch and lack of playoff success. Amirov wasn't the best pick but the value was good

10) McCann deal: Once again he swinfled the pens , but sadly he messed up and prioritzied an overrated and mistake prone Holl which hurt us this year

Overall Dubas tenure is a 75% for me. He's done some good things and some questionable ones.

He hasn't led the team though to success. Next year marks half a decade as the head of the table being our GM. We need some tangible playoff success to continue to see him as a credible leader for the following 5 years

Hold on, I never said he made no poor moves. I said every move he made had logic in it. You can tell why he thought it made sense. Like the Kadri trade, everyone including this board was screaming to trade a forward for defense. So he did what this board said and went out and got, at that time, the best dman he could for Kadri who was redundant and fresh off a suspension.

The fact it didn't work out is irrelevant. It had logic to it and you understand why it was made.

And your list is pretty bad sorry. You include Marleau when he became GM a month before he had to be dumped. Same with Kessel, he wasn't even the main GM so who is to say who made what calls, but even so at the time Kessel was considered a cap dump by many here. Revisionist history.

Then you fault him for a prospect getting a brain tumor? No one knows what his projection would be, but he was looking to be on pace to be a top 6 forward. Overall, most of those feels like reaches. He's made a few bad moves, a few great moves. But what is consistent is even the ones that didn't work out, none of them looked bad at the time of trade because they made sense.

 

[hamzarocks]

Hold on, I never said he made no poor moves. I said every move he made had logic in it. You can tell why he thought it made sense. Like the Kadri trade, everyone including this board was screaming to trade a forward for defense. So he did what this board said and went out and got, at that time, the best dman he could for Kadri who was redundant and fresh off a suspension.

The fact it didn't work out is irrelevant. It had logic to it and you understand why it was made.

And your list is pretty bad sorry. You include Marleau when he became GM a month before he had to be dumped. Same with Kessel, he wasn't even the main GM so who is to say who made what calls, but even so at the time Kessel was considered a cap dump by many here. Revisionist history.

Then you fault him for a prospect getting a brain tumor? No one knows what his projection would be, but he was looking to be on pace to be a top 6 forward. Overall, most of those feels like reaches. He's made a few bad moves, a few great moves. But what is consistent is even the ones that didn't work out, none of them looked bad at the time of trade because they made sense.

I didn't fault him for Amirov getting sick. I faulted him for not taking a RHD with size and good skating that we could have used.

The Kessel deal was seen as weak by leaf fans when it was made. I was on the boards and we weren't happy with the return mainly due to the extended 1.2M retention. That deal was him/hunter both similar to Marleau. He made the Marleau deal as a result of wanting to get the big fish and make a statement in JT. He went all in the moment he came on the job.

The Kessel trade to Toronto made sense at the time as well.

Leafs management saw us as good enough to be a fringe playoff team. We had drafted 7th overall before the Kessel year. We added some UFAs including beachuemin and komiserek with the intention these two help stabilize the D-core

Kessel was brought in to give 35 goals and lead the offense as our main offensive winger.

People call it a terrible move now with the 2nd and 9th picks going to Boston as a result

 

[ACC1224]

It's Wile E. Coyote...

I knew it looked wrong. Figured someone would correct it.
If only Acme sold goalies!