Ideas and suggestions for a true World Cup

[FiLe]

Nice chart and it shows that the number of Euros in the NHL has not grown greatly in the last 20 years as you originally claimed.

It's not on a "steady decline" either as you claimed. Also, we ought to study those numbers a bit.

First, the "record amount" in the late 90s consists mostly of Russians, Czechs and Slovaks - these players are the last batch cultivated in the totalitarian academy systems present in the Eastern bloc, who then jumped ship after the Iron Curtain fell. While their number has obviously diminished, the number of players cultivated in "Free Europe" has been in steady rise mid-90s onwards.

Second, as I said, we can expect the Olympics to inspire kids to pick up hockey - so going all the way back to 1998 and saying "there is no growth" is extremely short-sighted, because kids who were 5 to 10 years old at the time have only grown up to be mature players by 2010 or so. And the graph DOES show a steady rise in numbers since the start of this decade.

I'd say, to see some true evidence of olympic exposure, we'd at least have to wait for the batch who may have been influenced by the games in Turin in 2006. That's going to happen in the next five years. The number of players drafted from "2nd-rate" hockey markets outside the elite countries is especially going to be telling.

The NHL has stopped play for 5 consecutive OG now to let players participate and the resentment amongst most Euro fans towards the league are as high as they have ever been, so the evidence is pretty strong that accommodating the OG does nothing for the NHL in terms of gaining acceptance with Europeans.

Even if the NHL has let players participate in the Olympics, its attitude towards the entire process has obviously been like pulling teeth. In part, it concerns the WHC as well, since every spring you find people thinking some available players won't represent because their clubs are going to tell 'em not to go based on some technicality. I know part of it is unwarranted cynicism, but the league is not exactly doing much to shed the image.

Another reason for resentment might be the attitude of an average North American Joe Hockey towards Europeans' domestic leagues. Even if we all agree that yeah, they're not exactly rivaling the NHL, they're still pro leagues full of pro players. Yet, there are plenty of NA-centric NHL fans who seem to figure that they're fully amateur or beer leagues.

I'm not so sure your average European soccer fan, for example, thinks the Brazilian domestic league is a joke. They're obviously figuring it's not holding a candle to the Premier League or Bundesliga, but still, most soccer fans around the world should know that come the World Cup time, one is going to be pretty clueless about most teams if they only dedicate themselves to following Europe's biggest four or five leagues.

I'm not sure what you mean by quality of play. If you mean entertainment value then unfortunately I agree that winning (effectiveness) takes precedence over entertainment value too often in the NHL. However I should say that on average NHL games have a much more entertaining style of play than what we had at the last OG. Finland is a good example of a deathly boring team to watch, I couldn't imagine any league surviving if their teams played like that.

I simply meant having as many skilled players available as possible. And more countries you have that are at least somewhat passionate about hockey, more of them there are.

 

[patnyrnyg]

Even if the NHL has let players participate in the Olympics, its attitude towards the entire process has obviously been like pulling teeth. In part, it concerns the WHC as well, since every spring you find people thinking some available players won't represent because their clubs are going to tell 'em not to go based on some technicality. I know part of it is unwarranted cynicism, but the league is not exactly doing much to shed the image.

Another reason for resentment might be the attitude of an average North American Joe Hockey towards Europeans' domestic leagues. Even if we all agree that yeah, they're not exactly rivaling the NHL, they're still pro leagues full of pro players. Yet, there are plenty of NA-centric NHL fans who seem to figure that they're fully amateur or beer leagues.

I'm not so sure your average European soccer fan, for example, thinks the Brazilian domestic league is a joke. They're obviously figuring it's not holding a candle to the Premier League or Bundesliga, but still, most soccer fans around the world should know that come the World Cup time, one is going to be pretty clueless about most teams if they only dedicate themselves to following Europe's biggest four or five leagues.

How exactly has the NHL's attitude about the Olympics been like, "pulling teeth"? Secondly, how do you really expect NA fans to follow European leagues and secondly why would they want to? What is the connection the typical NA fan has to Praha Slavia or Modo?

Doesn't Petr Nedved still play in the Czech League? He was last time I was in Prague 2 1/2 years ago. 'nuff said.

On the soccer comparison, what is the percentage of players on Brazil that actually play in the Brazilian league? What is the percent of players on the top 10 or 20 countries that do not play in the top-5 Euro leagues?

 

[FiLe]

How exactly has the NHL's attitude about the Olympics been like, "pulling teeth"? Secondly, how do you really expect NA fans to follow European leagues and secondly why would they want to? What is the connection the typical NA fan has to Praha Slavia or Modo?

It certainly didn't look like there was great enthusiasm leading up to Sochi. And even less so now that we're going toward Pyeongchang.

How are the NA hockey fans to follow the euro leagues? Err... the same way some Euro fans follow the NHL?

But yeah, I get your point on them maybe not having a reason for it. But even if one doesn't watch actively, it's the information age. So it's not all that difficult to at least stay, you know, informed. Even 20 minutes of googling should give most a rough figure what it's all about, so there's really no excuse to resort to assumptions or asspulls.

On the soccer comparison, what is the percentage of players on Brazil that actually play in the Brazilian league? What is the percent of players on the top 10 or 20 countries that do not play in the top-5 Euro leagues?

I'm pretty sure the Brazilian league is mostly made of Brazilian players. Or were you referring to their NT? There's always been a handful. Last World Cup squad had four.

I can understand why a soccer follower might be more accustomed to being aware of other leagues, because players move all the time and all over. A guy who was in the Premier League this year might be in La Liga next, and two years down the line he may have crossed the Atlantic or moved into Eastern Europe. Still, if to an average hockey fan anybody not in the NHL is inconsequential, is there really a just excuse for such an attitude? Because even if most the best are in one place, it's still not hard to stay informed.

 

[patnyrnyg]

It certainly didn't look like there was great enthusiasm leading up to Sochi. And even less so now that we're going toward Pyeongchang.

How are the NA hockey fans to follow the euro leagues? Err... the same way some Euro fans follow the NHL?

But yeah, I get your point on them maybe not having a reason for it. But even if one doesn't watch actively, it's the information age. So it's not all that difficult to at least stay, you know, informed. Even 20 minutes of googling should give most a rough figure what it's all about, so there's really no excuse to resort to assumptions or asspulls.

Who is the best Czech player of all-time? Jagr or Hasek? Where did they play the bulk of their career. Wonder why Czechs would follow the NHL? Who are the best Swedes of the last 20 years? Forsberg, Sundin, Lidstrom? Where did they play the bulk of their careers? Who is the best Swede goalie right now? Where does he play? Now you get why Swedes would follow the NHL? Who is the best American player right now? Who is the best Canadian? In what league do they play? Who is the most prominent NA-born player playing in Europe right now? Nigel Dawes or Hugh Jessiman? Even the European National teams, where are bulk of the players playing during the season of the big-5 European countries (Sweden, Finland, Russia, Czech Republic, and Slovakia (yes, will still include the Slovaks))? How much time do you think the average person has to read up on guys they will never see play?

To compare to soccer, I know plenty of Americans who follow the European soccer leagues. Every week I get a run down of the Italian league from 2 of my friends on facebook. Also know people who follow the English league pretty religiously and a few who follow and watch as much as they can. How many Euros do you think follow the MLS? Think it is anywhere near as many Americans/Canadians that follow the Euro Leagues? Why? Euros have a bias against the MLS as being an amateur mens or beer league?

I'm pretty sure the Brazilian league is mostly made of Brazilian players. Or were you referring to their NT? There's always been a handful. Last World Cup squad had four.

I can understand why a soccer follower might be more accustomed to being aware of other leagues, because players move all the time and all over. A guy who was in the Premier League this year might be in La Liga next, and two years down the line he may have crossed the Atlantic or moved into Eastern Europe. Still, if to an average hockey fan anybody not in the NHL is inconsequential, is there really a just excuse for such an attitude? Because even if most the best are in one place, it's still not hard to stay informed.

I was referring to the Brazilian National Team. Where do their players play during the season? If they all played in the Brazilian league, do you think there would be as much interest in the European leagues in Brazil? I don't. Secondly, as you pointed out, players do bounce from league to league, via transfers, sales, signing new contracts. Thirdly, among the big soccer leagues you at least can have a discussion about which is the best league. If I say it is the English League and you say it is the Italian League, we could both make points to back up our claims. Well, I couldn't because I don't know enough about soccer, but an informed soccer fan most certainly can. In hockey, there is not argument and any attempt to say otherwise is futile.

 

[FiLe]

In hockey, there is not argument and any attempt to say otherwise is futile.

I pretty much agree with everything you say - it is arguably more natural to stay informed about various soccer leagues because players bounce all over.

However, like I also said, I consider not being aware of the hockey world outside the NHL an exercise in ignorance - because in the modern day, staying at least somewhat informed is extremely easy. One does not have to become a staunch follower, but dedicating a handful of moments of one's free time reading up the freely available key facts means there's no need to make comments based on presumptions.

And that's pretty much what I meant with my quip about the Brazilian soccer league. I don't expect people in Europe to actually tune into the games, but simply staying informed about what kind of place it is and how it might affect things on the global scale. As far as hockey is concerned, it should not be an insurmountable order for your average NHL fan either.

 

[patnyrnyg]

I don't have any interest in the European leagues. I do not have a team I follow, nor any particular players. Not going to spend my time reading about the Finnish League or the Swedish League or the KHL just so I can be informed about their happenings. It doesn't interest me at all.

 

[FiLe]

I don't have any interest in the European leagues. I do not have a team I follow, nor any particular players. Not going to spend my time reading about the Finnish League or the Swedish League or the KHL just so I can be informed about their happenings. It doesn't interest me at all.

Nobody is going to tell you to do so, which is good. I'd also hate being told to do something I don't wanna do. However, you shouldn't either complain that some people treat NA hockey landscape with hostility, when the reason for that is choosing to remain ignorant because of laziness. Simply put, can't have it all in life.

 

[sandysan]

The answer is right there in the post you quoted, if you read it carefully. The olympic exposure does not mean additional viewership to the NHL, but it will lead to kids around the world (both developing & established hockey countries) picking up the game, which will, in the long run, lead to better and better players available to play in the NHL.

A case in point: Hasn't the amount of Europeans in the NHL grown greatly over the past 20 years or so? I'm not saying it's all because of the Olympic exposure, but that sure is a factor.

As far as players being okay with it pre-1998, let's keep in mind that the meager amount of Europeans crossing over back then had already experienced at least one tournament. Some, a good example being Peter Forsberg, even postponed their transition for a season or two to take part. Another factor might be that in the early 90s few Europeans actually believed they might carve a lifelong career overseas. Many have been quoted saying that they figured they'll do it for a few years and then it's back to Europe. And some simply didn't mind - we don't live on a planet where everyone wears a hat, after all.

Finally, as we all should know, it's easy to give man things, but far harder to take 'em away. Players these days expect to make it to the Olympics even from the NHL. It'll be interesting to see what the reaction will be if that chance is suddenly denied.

No reason to presume it will be uniform, though. Some will be upset and others don't mind. Just like people's thoughts concerning the upcoming World Cup.

So let me get this straight, hockey by itself in the Olympics doesn't help the NHL but "grows the game" by magically paying for infrastructure to build rinks in under represented countries?

If the idea is that you want to catch a "cool runnings" fish out of water story, isn't it better that NHL players don't participate so that these emerging markets don't send their burgeoning stars to be cannon fodder?

The Olympics won't lack hockey, it will still have it and we can then really see what the draw is: the talent or a bunch of has been and never will be's playing under the give rings.

NBC has the rights to the NHL and the Olympics. One round sans NHL talent, my guess NBC might end up sweetening the pot as the IOC never will.

 

[FiLe]

So let me get this straight, hockey by itself in the Olympics doesn't help the NHL but "grows the game" by magically paying for infrastructure to build rinks in under represented countries?

Not exactly. What it will help do is keeping the existing infrastructure in use around Europe.

Simple formula: International hockey (and especially its pinnacle, the Olympics) keeps people in the old continent excited about hockey, and in turn, inspires more kids to pick up the game. Which will, in turn, lead to better and better prospects for the NHL to reap & sow.

It's not just hockey-related. In European pro sports landscape the lifeline to success of any venue is international game. If there is no buzz and anticipation surrounding that, there will eventually not be buzz and anticipation surrounding the sport itself.

 

[patnyrnyg]

Nobody is going to tell you to do so, which is good. I'd also hate being told to do something I don't wanna do. However, you shouldn't either complain that some people treat NA hockey landscape with hostility, when the reason for that is choosing to remain ignorant because of laziness. Simply put, can't have it all in life.

I really don't care if Europeans do not like the NHL or "treat it with hostility". Europeans who "treat it with hostility" are simply jealous that their best players leave to come play over here and then feel like the NHL owes them something so they should cater to the IIHF. Just don't understand why I should spend 20 minutes a day reading about something just for the sake of reading about it. I have better things to do with my time than to read about European players who will never sniff the NHL or major Int'l tournaments or NA players who are not good enough to ever reach the NHL.

 

[Forsberg21Sakic19]

1) The NHL/NHLPA have shown no interest in promoting this event globally. This is odd because all the meetings and discussions which led to the announcement of a return of the World Cup of Hockey emphasized the "global" agenda. There seems to be a serious lack of understanding in NA of the European side of things and probably vice versa as well. Without it you just have two sides shouting down each other and promoting their own provincial versions of the game.

2) Toronto is a major ice hockey city with a cosmopolitan population. It is the most easily accessible city in Canada and could be a great venue for a major international competition.

3) Sorry, can't remember what this point was

4) If you're trying to grow the game don't you want 10 year olds to come with their parents? Mascots may seem gimmicky to an adult but if they add a level of comfort or enjoyment for families, why wouldn't you have them?

5) Fan zones are a major component of any self-respecting international tournament. The World Cup, the Rugby World Cup, The Olympics, etc... all have areas where you can enjoy the atmosphere of a tournament without being inside the stadiums/arenas of play. It's about creating an overall experience where the energy of a tournament is felt in many places, not just one.

6) Hosts matter. You're going to sit there with a straight face and imply that any moron who can speak english should be a host for US or Canadian tv? The quality of competition does come first. But a good set of commentators, a professional set of analysts and hosts and a strategic marketing push can both enhance or conversely detract from the main focus. ESPN's success in covering the World Cup (soccer) is proof positive of this.

Summarily, this tournament can succeed but needs to be run seriously in a collaborative effort between the NA and European/rest of world stakeholders. This is an opportunity to create a lasting legacy for ice hockey that grows and promotes and celebrates the game. In its current format, however, I believe it will not succeed in that. Switzerland and Slovakia may not be able to win but they deserve a spot in this tournament. If it is about spreading hockey then how can you effectively "punish" Switzerland even though they have been the best improved nation of the past decade? And the BS I keep hearing/reading about quality of play is absurd. You cannot arbitrarily manufacture quality. Some games may not be very competitive (look at the foundation of any major tournament, blowouts happen!) but many will be surprisingly so. And the first time an underdog (Switzerland, Slovakia, Germany, Belarus, Denmark, Latvia etc...) beats a major team or even forces overtime, this tried and true format will be validated. Stop the gimmicks, incentivize the European nations to take it seriously and get over yourself! Ice hockey will never grow with the siloed approach that is currently put in practice by NA and European leagues/federations.

1) Were these countries prohibited from sending reporters or did they choose to not send anyone?

2) Games in Toronto are quiet because their team has been lousy. The passion is there, I have been to Toronto for games and have seen it. There are also plenty of hockey lovers within a driving distance to Toronto that do not care about the Leafs.

3) That could be the hope, but it is not going to happen overnight.

4) Mascot? Really? Last time I cared about a mascot was when I was about 10 years old.

5) I'm sure all the plans aren't finalized yet. However, if you do not think fans from Europe will travel to this event, why do they need something set up so Swedes, Canadians, Americans, Russians, and Czechs can "share culture"?

6) Host as in the host on tv? Who cares? I don't watch the Olympics because I am interested in hearing Bob Costas give his take on things.

 

[habsrule4eva3089]

It's obvious most North Americans have never traveled abroad to watch International Hockey or support their National teams for whatever sport. The view is so one dimensional it's hilarious.

Can you imagine going through an entire life just following one league, one business and not knowing what the game means to people around the World and seeing the atmosphere that's created when an actual World reunion is gathered for one's sport ala the Olympics and World Championships. That's what it must be like living in North America I suppose, sad, most of these people will never understand what Hockey's truly about.

 

[Forsberg21Sakic19]

I really don't care if Europeans do not like the NHL or "treat it with hostility". Europeans who "treat it with hostility" are simply jealous that their best players leave to come play over here and then feel like the NHL owes them something so they should cater to the IIHF. Just don't understand why I should spend 20 minutes a day reading about something just for the sake of reading about it. I have better things to do with my time than to read about European players who will never sniff the NHL or major Int'l tournaments or NA players who are not good enough to ever reach the NHL.

You have every right to consume the sport of ice hockey any way you choose. However, that does not mean that you have the first clue about how to develop and grow the sport. If you don't care about that great, enjoy your sport becoming a regionally mediocre, globally irrelevant sideshow. To each their own. If you do love this sport and its growth though, you have to consider the appeal from different perspectives. You may not care about a player who hasn't played in the NHL because you have no tie to them but I bet you'd start caring a bit if said player bulldozes your favorite guy in an international tournament, or dangles him to oblivion. Without interest from Europe, the NHL is a shadow of itself. It's a globalized world and if you want to be relevant, you need to matter in more places than one. When European teams and players (from Euro clubs that is) start beating NA ones, you might take notice. I sincerely hope that for you because otherwise its going to be a really ugly wake up call.

 

[Forsberg21Sakic19]

It's obvious most North Americans have never traveled abroad to watch International Hockey or support their National teams for whatever sport. The view is so one dimensional it's hilarious.

Can you imagine going through an entire life just following one league, one business and not knowing what the game means to people around the World and seeing the atmosphere that's created when an actual World reunion is gathered for one's sport ala the Olympics and World Championships. That's what it must be like living in North America I suppose, sad, most of these people will never understand what Hockey's truly about.

You're absolutely right GlobeHockey. Sadness is the only emotion that I feel when I see these types of attitudes. How you can claim to have any understanding of the sport of hockey without understanding its major global components is beyond me. Its my fervent hope that people do want to learn "other" hockey and not only stick with convenient self-reinforcement.

I love Canada and Canadians are generally fabulous people whom we owe much thanks to for the game of ice hockey. But the irony is that its the attitude of some Canadians towards the spread of the game that holds it back in many respects. The global spread of the game you love is a good thing! Stop being threatened by it. (Disclaimer: this is by no means a catch all assessment of Canadians. Many wonderful people recognize this and have been at the sharp end of the game's proliferation.)

 

[Theokritos]

Since this partially seems to turn into yet another Europe vs North America thread, let's emphasise once again that dissatisfaction with the current World Cup concept is not an issue that splits both hemispheres but unites fans on both side of the Atlantic. There is also a basic consensus among posters from both Europe and NA here about what could and should be done better and what some of the cornerstones of a true World Cup would be. We shouldn't let disagreements about minor matters cloud the fact that many of us are really on the same side in the bigger picture.

 

[Zine]

1) The NHL/NHLPA have shown no interest in promoting this event globally. This is odd because all the meetings and discussions which led to the announcement of a return of the World Cup of Hockey emphasized the "global" agenda. There seems to be a serious lack of understanding in NA of the European side of things and probably vice versa as well. Without it you just have two sides shouting down each other and promoting their own provincial versions of the game.

This isn't even a North American vs European issue considering the NHL is marginalizing the American consumer as well.

 

[sandysan]

You have every right to consume the sport of ice hockey any way you choose. However, that does not mean that you have the first clue about how to develop and grow the sport. If you don't care about that great, enjoy your sport becoming a regionally mediocre, globally irrelevant sideshow. To each their own. If you do love this sport and its growth though, you have to consider the appeal from different perspectives. You may not care about a player who hasn't played in the NHL because you have no tie to them but I bet you'd start caring a bit if said player bulldozes your favorite guy in an international tournament, or dangles him to oblivion. Without interest from Europe, the NHL is a shadow of itself. It's a globalized world and if you want to be relevant, you need to matter in more places than one. When European teams and players (from Euro clubs that is) start beating NA ones, you might take notice. I sincerely hope that for you because otherwise its going to be a really ugly wake up call.

The player from another leagues who, in the international stage, holds his own? Guys like Jeri Donita whom many claimed at one point was the best player outside of the NHL?

Then he came to the NHL and speedily washed out of the league?

Fans of the NHL don't watch other leagues because of the lack of a frame of reference, NHL washout lead these leagues and if a guy scoring 50 goals in 20 games deserves international attention for that feat alone there must be tons of stats from guys in midnight beer leagues across the pond

 

[FiLe]

Guys like Jeri Donita whom many claimed at one point was the best player outside of the NHL?

Who?

 

[patnyrnyg]

It's obvious most North Americans have never traveled abroad to watch International Hockey or support their National teams for whatever sport. The view is so one dimensional it's hilarious.

Can you imagine going through an entire life just following one league, one business and not knowing what the game means to people around the World and seeing the atmosphere that's created when an actual World reunion is gathered for one's sport ala the Olympics and World Championships. That's what it must be like living in North America I suppose, sad, most of these people will never understand what Hockey's truly about.

And, MOST Europeans have never traveled to North America to support their teams, what is your point? Do you need me to post population numbers and then game attendance to show that MOST have not done so? Secondly, when you get a chance, feel free to look up how much it would cost to travel from various parts of the US and Canada to the next Olympics. My wife and I looked it up in 2010 to go from NYC to Vancouver. Flight and hotel alone for 5 days would have cost us about $5,000. MOST can't afford that kind of expense and that was staying on the continent. We don't have the luxury of being able to pile into a car and drive to 5 different countries in a month. If you need me to post some driving directions with estimated times from mapquest, I can do that, as well.

 

[patnyrnyg]

You have every right to consume the sport of ice hockey any way you choose. However, that does not mean that you have the first clue about how to develop and grow the sport. If you don't care about that great, enjoy your sport becoming a regionally mediocre, globally irrelevant sideshow. To each their own. If you do love this sport and its growth though, you have to consider the appeal from different perspectives. You may not care about a player who hasn't played in the NHL because you have no tie to them but I bet you'd start caring a bit if said player bulldozes your favorite guy in an international tournament, or dangles him to oblivion. Without interest from Europe, the NHL is a shadow of itself. It's a globalized world and if you want to be relevant, you need to matter in more places than one. When European teams and players (from Euro clubs that is) start beating NA ones, you might take notice. I sincerely hope that for you because otherwise its going to be a really ugly wake up call.

And, you have that first clue?

Not really concerned that hockey is not as popular as soccer worldwide or as popular as football, baseball, or basketball here in the US. It is not why I watch and follow the sport. Funny thing is, it is only hockey fans who I hear complain about the "relevance" of hockey.

European club teams are going to start beating NHL teams? Ha, yeah, ok. Let me know when you wake up from your fantasy. Remember when the KHL was supposed to become a legitimate contender for the best league in the world? Yeah, that lasted long. If you are referring to national teams, it has already happened. Sweden beat the US in 06, Finland beat the US this past year. I could go on. Not sure what your whole point is about it.

 

[Brady Skjei]

I don't see the problem in having a 16 team tournament. The point of the tournament is to get nations together and grow the game. Of course there are going to be blowout games, but you don't think kids in low IIHF-ranked countries wouldn't love to be able to see Crosby or Ovechkin play their countries? If a nation with a soccer program like Ireland can play in Euro 2012, why can't a hockey nation like Italy play in the WCoH?

For the first expanded WC, hold it in Europe. Make it easier for fans from the European countries to travel there, if we're growing the game we have to make it more accessible to 14 nations rather than 2. Qualification could be something like invite the top 12 teams in the IIHF rankings and have qualifying tournaments the year before for the last 4.

4 groups of 4, teams play 3 games each. top 8 or 12 make the knockout stage. Final best of 3.

Hold it in UTC +1 the first time around so the North American fans don't have to wake up at ungodly hours. As the tournament grows, more countries can grow their programs and go for bids.

Have the tournament in Late August or Early September. Keep delaying the start European leagues to a minimum but try to strike a balance between that and giving enough rest to the NHLers, the real major draw to the tournament. Have every player available, that's what it's all about.

 

[ForumNamePending]

Ya, I don't think anyone should expect an NHL fan in NA to be keeping tabs on leagues over in Europe, and anyone who thinks there is a debate to be had over what hockey league is best is delusional, but I think FiLe's OP had more to do with seeing comments like this...

Fans of the NHL don't watch other leagues because of the lack of a frame of reference, NHL washout lead these leagues and if a guy scoring 50 goals in 20 games deserves international attention for that feat alone there must be tons of stats from guys in midnight beer leagues across the pond

Perhaps I'm reading this wrong, but what NHL washouts have scored 50 goals in 20 games in a decent European pro league and why are we comparing these leagues to midnight beer leagues?

Who?

I think Jiri Dopita, though you probably knew that. Given that he didn't even bother coming over to NA until he was in his 30s the reason he only played a season or two in the NHL is probably a little more nuanced than "he wasn't very good at hockey".

 

[sandysan]

Who?

Jiri dopita played for the flyers after playing well internationally. Don't recall if he went back after the flyers or they traded him and then he washed out.

It was a phone autocorrect

 

[xxxx]

I think some of the suggestions here are good, but you need to realize that holding a World Cup (organized by the NHL) in Europe makes no sense actually. Why should even the NHL be the one who organizes the tournament, in Europe, when there would be no nhl ice, definitely not only nhl referees, that would be stupid, and therefore probably not even nhl rules. They could, theoretically, alternate the organizer between the NHL and IIHF.

 

[FiLe]

Ya, I don't think anyone should expect an NHL fan in NA to be keeping tabs on leagues over in Europe, and anyone who thinks there is a debate to be had over what hockey league is best is delusional, but I think FiLe's OP had more to do with seeing comments like this...

Pretty much. I don't really expect a single NA-based NHL fan turn into an European hockey connoisseur overnight, but it'd still be nice if they bothered to study the landscape enough to avoid down right insulting the players and the game being played in European rinks. One doesn't really even have to tune into the leagues that much, because various international events alone feature Europe-based players who have, time and again, proved to be able to hang in there against NHL talent just fine.

Yet, nobody's asking anybody to figure these leagues are actually on level with the NHL, because that's obviously not the case. But when you see comments about "beer leagues full of washouts", I don't think there's plenty justification for criticizing the supposed "hostility". As civil as you aspire to be, it does kinda make it tempting to just write the other side off as some dumb lumberjack, and move on.

I think Jiri Dopita, though you probably knew that.

Yeah, I did. Just thought that was funny.

Why should even the NHL be the one who organizes the tournament, in Europe, when there would be no nhl ice, definitely not only nhl referees, that would be stupid, and therefore probably not even nhl rules.

You know, this is exactly what they did in 2004. They had games in various European arenas, converted the rinks to the NHL measurements (in case you weren't aware, it's relatively easy to turn a big rink temporarily into a small one - other way around, that's more difficult, something to do about the laws of physics, I think they teach about that in schools) and - thanks to the invention of airplanes and timely opening of some airports in the early 20th century - even flew NHL refs over to officiate the games. And I think they carried the NHL rulebooks too in their luggage. Well, unless they were confiscated at the customs.

I guess this was all before your time.