Line Combos: Ideal Lines Vs. Projected Lines 2024/2025

[Mike Liut]

Bolduc - Thomas - Neighbours
Saad - Buchnevich - Kyrou
Schenn - Holloway - Texier
Toropchenko - Faksa - Joseph

Leddy - Parayko
Broberg - Faulk
Suter - Kessel

I like this one, but I worry about Bolduc defensively on the top line.

 

[Celtic Note]

I like this one, but I worry about Bolduc defensively on the top line.

You worry about Bolduc by not Neighbours?

 

[Majorityof1]

I like this one, but I worry about Bolduc defensively on the top line.

Worried about Bolduc but not Neighbours? Bolduc looked far better defensively than Neighbours last year.

Neighbours was 3rd worst on the team in GA/60, 5th worst in Scoring Chances agains/60, and worst in xGA/60, He was fairly sheltered too.

You worry about Bolduc by not Neighbours?

Beat me to it lol I shouldn't have gone to get stats.

 

[Mike Liut]

Worried about Bolduc but not Neighbours? Bolduc looked far better defensively than Neighbours last year.

Neighbours was 3rd worst on the team in GA/60, 5th worst in Scoring Chances agains/60, and worst in xGA/60, He was fairly sheltered too.


Beat me to it lol I shouldn't have gone to get stats.

Damn, I didn’t know that.

Are Holloway, Texier, Faksa and Joseph defensively reliable? I thought I read they were.

 

[kimzey59]

Damn, I didn’t know that.

Are Holloway, Texier, Faksa and Joseph defensively reliable? I thought I read they were.

Faksa(153:03 in PK time), Joseph(127:06 in PK time) and Tex(137:44 in PK times) all got substantial PK minutes.
Safe to say they all play a fairly reliable defensive game.

Holloway only got 6:29 on the PK through 38 games, but even that suggests there's a level of trust in the defensive zone. I think he's a notch or two below the others in the defensive zone, but he's not a liability.

 

[DatDude44]

Come March, this could be a fun group, maybe we try to load the skill in our top 6. Surround Thomas with high end shooting talent, surround Dvorsky with high end veteran talent, a physical and defensively responsible 3rd line with a ton of speed and lastly a big physical 4th line thats capable of chipping in. Very exciting group long term.

Bolduc-Thomas-Snuggerud
Buchnevich-Dvorsky- Kyrou
Neighbours-Texier- Holloway
Torpedo- Faksa- Schenn

Edit: Saad dealt for a pick?

 

[Memento]

Come March, this could be a fun group, maybe we try to load the skill in our top 6. Surround Thomas with high end shooting talent, surround Dvorsky with high end veteran talent, a physical and defensively responsible 3rd line with a ton of speed and lastly a big physical 4th line thats capable of chipping in. Very exciting group long term.

Bolduc-Thomas-Snuggerud
Buchnevich-Dvorsky- Kyrou
Neighbours-Texier- Saad
Torpedo- Faksa- Schenn

You forgot Holloway, and maybe the addition of Snuggerud and Dvorsky gets Saad dealt. Just saying...

 

[Mike Liut]

You forgot Holloway, and maybe the addition of Snuggerud and Dvorsky gets Saad dealt. Just saying...

I’d love to recoup a 2nd somehow

 

[DatDude44]

You forgot Holloway, and maybe the addition of Snuggerud and Dvorsky gets Saad dealt. Just saying...

I knew I was forgetting someone lol

Saad for a 2nd would be nice

Neighbours- Tex-Holloway could be interesting 3rd line, a lot of speed and physicality still.

 

[Reality Czech]

Then do what they did at the end of next year.

Neighbours-Thomas-Schenn
Saad-Buch-Kyrou

Schenn and Kyrou need to be as far away from each other as possible. Schenn negativity effects Kyrou Crazily when playing together. Unless we are wanting to tank the team into the bottom of the standings that is.

Here's some stats just as examples.

From Naturalstattrick
5v5

Kyrou with Schenn 302 minutes 16GF/15GA 51.61 GF%
Kyrou w/o Schenn 865 minutes 40GF/33GA 54.79 GF%
Schenn w/o Kyrou 774 minutes 29GF/37GA 43.94 GF%

Even Strength
Kyrou with Schenn 336 minutes 22GF/33GA 40 GF%
Kyrou w/o Schenn 906 minutes 43GF/38GA 53.09 GF%
Schenn w/o Kyrou 822 minutes 35GF/41GA 46.05 GF%

All Strengths
Kyrou with Schenn 458 minutes 33GF/38GA 46.48 GF%
Kyrou w/o Schenn 1046 minutes 62GF/39GA 61.39 GF%
Schenn w/o Kyrou 1001 minutes 49GA/51GA 49 GF%

One think to keep in mind reading those stats is that when Kyrou isn't with Schenn he's playing with Thomas, who will boost anyone's numbers while Schenn likely isn't playing with Thomas while separated from Kyrou. I assume Kyrou's numbers were greatly boosted when him, Thomas and Buch were playing together.

I see a lot of people throwing dirt on Schenn but he's still a top 6 forward on this team unless someone takes a big step forward. Guess we'll see if Buch can be an effective center before seeing where Schenn slots in. If Buch does stick at 2C then it definitely opens up more options for Schenn. Right now I'd go with this but I might change my mind 5 times before the season starts.

Neighbours Thomas Schenn
Saad Buch Kyrou
Texier Holloway Bolduc
Torpo Faksa Sylvegard/Kapanen

I agree with others who've said we may consider using Thomas to elevate others while Buch/Kyrou make a very formidable 2nd line. If it doesn't work you can always put Thomas and Kyrou back together.

 

[Celtic Note]

One think to keep in mind reading those stats is that when Kyrou isn't with Schenn he's playing with Thomas, who will boost anyone's numbers while Schenn likely isn't playing with Thomas while separated from Kyrou. I assume Kyrou's numbers were greatly boosted when him, Thomas and Buch were playing together.

I see a lot of people throwing dirt on Schenn but he's still a top 6 forward on this team unless someone takes a big step forward. Guess we'll see if Buch can be an effective center before seeing where Schenn slots in. If Buch does stick at 2C then it definitely opens up more options for Schenn. Right now I'd go with this but I might change my mind 5 times before the season starts.

Neighbours Thomas Schenn
Saad Buch Kyrou
Texier Holloway Bolduc
Torpo Faksa Sylvegard/Kapanen

I agree with others who've said we may consider using Thomas to elevate others while Buch/Kyrou make a very formidable 2nd line. If it doesn't work you can always put Thomas and Kyrou back together.

Schenn’s defensive metrics were worse than Kyrou’s when Kyrou was on his line. One could quite easily infer he was therefore worse than Kyrou last year.

While I agree that Kyrou probably benefited from being on Thomas’ line, it’s also important to remember that that line faced an higher quality of competition. I don’t think Schenn can stake that claim.

Schenn has also been one of the top three worst on our team the last two seasons in plus/minus.

Schenn has been objectively bad defensively the last two seasons. Both the eye test and defensive metrics confirm that.

Dirt has not been thrown on Schenn. Schenn stepped into it himself.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

One think to keep in mind reading those stats is that when Kyrou isn't with Schenn he's playing with Thomas, who will boost anyone's numbers while Schenn likely isn't playing with Thomas while separated from Kyrou. I assume Kyrou's numbers were greatly boosted when him, Thomas and Buch were playing together.

I see a lot of people throwing dirt on Schenn but he's still a top 6 forward on this team unless someone takes a big step forward. Guess we'll see if Buch can be an effective center before seeing where Schenn slots in. If Buch does stick at 2C then it definitely opens up more options for Schenn. Right now I'd go with this but I might change my mind 5 times before the season starts.

Neighbours Thomas Schenn
Saad Buch Kyrou
Texier Holloway Bolduc
Torpo Faksa Sylvegard/Kapanen

I agree with others who've said we may consider using Thomas to elevate others while Buch/Kyrou make a very formidable 2nd line. If it doesn't work you can always put Thomas and Kyrou back together.

My response was less to shit on Schenn and more to put emphasis on why those two players should not be playing on the same line. They do not gel well defensively and it usually ends up with a puck in the back of our net.

A goal is scored against us at around twice as much when they are playing together than when they are apart.

 

[Reality Czech]

Schenn’s defensive metrics were worse than Kyrou’s when Kyrou was on his line. One could quite easily infer he was therefore worse than Kyrou last year.

While I agree that Kyrou probably benefited from being on Thomas’ line, it’s also important to remember that that line faced an higher quality of competition. I don’t think Schenn can stake that claim.

Schenn has also been one of the top three worst on our team the last two seasons in plus/minus.

Schenn has been objectively bad defensively the last two seasons. Both the eye test and defensive metrics confirm that.

Dirt has not been thrown on Schenn. Schenn stepped into it himself.

You can twist stats a lot of different ways as we often see. I was just pointing out that the difference in numbers might have more to do with who Kyrou was playing with the rest of the time instead of the explanation that Schenn was solely responsible, which is what the post seemed to be suggesting. Neither Schenn nor Kyrou are great defensive players and both are combined -49 over the past two seasons, but the point of my post wasn't to claim that Schenn is an excellent defender.

Yeah, I understand Schenn has slipped but he was still 4th on the team in points last year and 3rd the year before. I think it's a lot more likely he sees more time in the top 6 instead of the 3rd line like many people seem to be putting him on in this thread. If Buch sticks at 2C and a young player or two steps up then we may see Schenn on the 3rd line, but he's still an important player on the team despite the fact that he's past his prime.

 

[Reality Czech]

My response was less to shit on Schenn and more to put emphasis on why those two players should not be playing on the same line. They do not gel well defensively and it usually ends up with a puck in the back of our net.

A goal is scored against us at around twice as much when they are playing together than when they are apart.

Fair enough. I guess it's not a good idea to put two below average defenders on the same line unless you've got someone really good to pick up the slack. I wish there was an effective way to have Thomas and Kyrou running separate lines but that could be a challenge. Thomas, Kyrou and Schenn were decent together in limited time last year but they didn't stick with it long.

I am just skeptical that some of these advanced stats definitively say which players are better or worse defensively. It could just be the case that they are much better attacking, which results in more shots on goal, scoring chances, etc. as opposed to them actually stopping the other team score at the other end of the ice. All cf% tells me is that they had more chances than the opponents but that's not the same as being good defensively. But I digress... Is training camp here yet?

 

[LogosBlue]

I don't think Schenn is a top 6 forward any longer. He should start the season on the third line.

 

[MissouriMook]

I think one important aspect to keep in mind with Schenn and Kyrou is that Schenn is more of a cycle forward, whereas Kyrou excels off the rush. Thomas tends to bring out the best in other forwards because he can excel at either. I think it is OK for different lines on the same team to have different approaches to creating offense, but I do think it creates issues when you have players who excel in different play styles on the same line. I agree that Schenn probably shouldn't be counted on as a Top 6 player anymore, and I certainly would prefer not to see him at center, but we have plenty of time in preseason and early in the regular season to see where all of these legitimate NHL forwards fit together best.

 

[Reality Czech]

I don't think Schenn is a top 6 forward any longer. He should start the season on the third line.

I'd rather let one of the young guys earn that 2nd line spot rather than just handing it to them. It seems trendy to pile on Schenn these days but like I said before, he was still 4th on the team in points last year and .85 PPG the previous two years combined. If Holloway or Bolduc play so well that they push Schenn down the lineup then so be it. But right now Schenn is still one of our 6 best forwards until proven otherwise. It certainly could happen this year but let's wait and see if Buch is a viable 2C and if the young guys step up.

 

[MissouriMook]

I'd rather let one of the young guys earn that 2nd line spot rather than just handing it to them. It seems trendy to pile on Schenn these days but like I said before, he was still 4th on the team in points last year and .85 PPG the previous two years combined. If Holloway or Bolduc play so well that they push Schenn down the lineup then so be it. But right now Schenn is still one of our 6 best forwards until proven otherwise. It certainly could happen this year but let's wait and see if Buch is a viable 2C and if the young guys step up.

One of the problems with Schenn is his streakiness. When he’s hot, he’s absolutely a top 6 player, maybe even a first liner. When he’s not, he’s a boat anchor that could even be a drag on your 4th line.

 

[Reality Czech]

One of the problems with Schenn is his streakiness. When he’s hot, he’s absolutely a top 6 player, maybe even a first liner. When he’s not, he’s a boat anchor that could even be a drag on your 4th line.

This is true, though both Buch and Kyrou can be pretty streaky as well. Schenn is the type of player that needs other offensive players to produce, which is why I am hesitant to put him on the 3rd line right now. Obviously he's gonna end up there sooner or later, but I wanna see if he's got something left in the tank before relegating him to the third line.

No doubt his game has slipped, but he's done a lot for this team over the years and it bothers me to see him underappreciated by Blues fans. He's still a warrior and .76 PPG during his time here is nothing to scoff at despite his defensive weaknesses. All I'm saying is wait til someone forces him to the third line rather than putting him there by default. He's earned that IMO.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

This is true, though both Buch and Kyrou can be pretty streaky as well. Schenn is the type of player that needs other offensive players to produce, which is why I am hesitant to put him on the 3rd line right now. Obviously he's gonna end up there sooner or later, but I wanna see if he's got something left in the tank before relegating him to the third line.

No doubt his game has slipped, but he's done a lot for this team over the years and it bothers me to see him underappreciated by Blues fans. He's still a warrior and .76 PPG during his time here is nothing to scoff at despite his defensive weaknesses. All I'm saying is wait til someone forces him to the third line rather than putting him there by default. He's earned that IMO.

If he is in top 6, it will hopefully be at wing. He should be able to produce at top 6 level if he doesn't have to play center. We are thinner at center, but his game is more 3c than 2c at this point as he isn’t much of a playmaker and doesn’t create chances with his feet. He can win battles and shoot and get to the net, all of which make him an effective complementary winger in top 6.

 

[Reality Czech]

If he is in top 6, it will hopefully be at wing. He should be able to produce at top 6 level if he doesn't have to play center. We are thinner at center, but his game is more 3c than 2c at this point as he isn’t much of a playmaker and doesn’t create chances with his feet. He can win battles and shoot and get to the net, all of which make him an effective complementary winger in top 6.

I would agree with that and I suppose this thread is about "ideal" lines. Ideally, Buch will be an effective 2C and allow Schenn to be slotted in on either his or Thomas's wing or perhaps dropped down to 3C. I think most of us agree that Schenn isn't ideal as 2C but he would be an above average 3C. Or he'd bring a nice physical element to either top 6 line as a physical winger who can still score 20+ goals. I think he'll come back strong this year after having a down year last year.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

This is true, though both Buch and Kyrou can be pretty streaky as well. Schenn is the type of player that needs other offensive players to produce, which is why I am hesitant to put him on the 3rd line right now. Obviously he's gonna end up there sooner or later, but I wanna see if he's got something left in the tank before relegating him to the third line.

No doubt his game has slipped, but he's done a lot for this team over the years and it bothers me to see him underappreciated by Blues fans. He's still a warrior and .76 PPG during his time here is nothing to scoff at despite his defensive weaknesses. All I'm saying is wait til someone forces him to the third line rather than putting him there by default. He's earned that IMO.

This is exactly where I'm at regarding Schenn.

I see Schenn starting off as the 2C, lose some steam and is gradually replaced by someone else as 2C. Probably replaced by Buch at first, but Tex and Holly are going to get opportunities.

I see this as a sort of gradual succession plan. DVo is the long-term answer.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

This is exactly where I'm at regarding Schenn.

I see Schenn starting off as the 2C, lose some steam and is gradually replaced by someone else as 2C. Probably replaced by Buch at first, but Tex and Holly are going to get opportunities.

I see this as a sort of gradual succession plan. DVo is the long-term answer.

The Buchnevich to center move signaled to me that Schenn isn't a center any more. Or he shouldn't be, if we want a competitive roster. But I can see him on a top 6 line, if you are trying to balance 3 lines instead of being top heavy.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

The Buchnevich to center move signaled to me that Schenn isn't a center any more. Or he shouldn't be, if we want a competitive roster. But I can see him on a top 6 line, if you are trying to balance 3 lines instead of being top heavy.

Trying Buch at center was/is worth it, I guess. I agree that Schenn is just about done at center. As long as it doesn't take away from Buch's overall effectiveness, then okay by me.

I still want Schenn to start the season at 2C.

 

[TurgPavs]

I think to start the season you will have:
Buch/Thomas/Kyrou
Neighbours/Schenn/Saad
Holloway/Texier/Kappy
Joeseph/Faska/Torp
Walker-Sylvegard

Broberg-CP
Leddy-Faulk
Suter-Kessel
Joesph

JB-Hofer

Sunny on IR
Krug on LTIR
Perunovich is waived